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Friday, January 19, 2007
I want to be a lone hero
Fantasy MMORPGs cast the player in the role of a hero. They work by making the player believe that he, either alone or in a group, braves great dangers, for which he is rewarded not only with treasure, but also with a sense of accomplishment. For this it is necessary for us to “forget” that when we kill the evil sorcerer, we aren’t the first to do so, and once we are gone the evil sorcerer pops back into existence to be killed by the next hero.
Right now the Burning Crusade is causing me problems. Not just the queues, the lag, or the repeated server resets I encountered last night. But because, with every spawn in Hellfire Peninsula being camped by at least a dozen people, I just can’t manage to forget that I am not unique. And I have the same problems with my blood elf mage in the newbie zones. At one point my mage started his combats by sticking a dagger in the mobs that spawned next to him. Because if he had stepped back and launched a fireball instead, the mob would have been claimed by somebody else in the 3 seconds that this would take.
In the best of cases I group with the other players standing around to kill a specific monster. But unlike other groups, which are formed to be stronger together, I am very much aware that I could have killed that monster alone, I just group so that one kill scores for the quest of several people, relieving some pressure. That is rational, but not very heroic.
The more normal case is that every player just plays for himself, tagging one mob at a time. In practical terms that means that every quest takes a bit longer, because I have to wait for respawns and run around more to find something to kill. But that is not the only impact. Lots of players grinding a limited number of monster spawns also feels a lot more like work than like a heroic achievement.
In the worst case the players start fighting among each other who gets to kill a spawn. The more players are hunting a mob, and the fewer of this mob there are, or the slower they respawn, the easier that happens. People accidentally or on purpose killsteal mobs from each other. People tag several mobs to prevent others from getting them. The event about the opening of the Dark Portal, in the week before the expansion came out, was probably the worst example I have ever witnessed, with players turning on PvP to be able to kill other players, just because those other players wanted to kill 6 demons for a quest too. Situations like that resemble more a food fight among little children than anything remotely heroic.
I play MMOGs because of the interaction with other players, the groups, the guild, the chat, strangers you meet, friends you make, the player-based economy. I wouldn’t want the world to be instanced so that I never meet anyone. But beyond a certain population density, other players start to become annoying. Right now questing in Hellfire Peninsula just doesn’t feel right. I want to heroically fight evil monsters, not treacherously fight other players for the tag.
If the servers were stable enough, I’d escape with a group into the Hellfire Citadel instances. But yesterday that wasn’t really the case, and I’m not too optimistic about the upcoming first Burning Crusade weekend. So I’m currently wondering whether I should spend time this weekend doing quests I didn’t do yet in places like Winterspring or Silithus, which should be a lot less populated.
I want to be a lone hero. But by definition a hero is an above average person. If you stand in a huge crowd of people all doing the same thing as you do, it is hard to feel anything heroic about that. I’m not saying that the narrative of the hero’s journey is not possible in a MMORPG, but I think it requires a better dispersion of players. Right now, due to the expansion, World of Warcraft has problems offering that.
- posted by Tobold @ 8:07 PM Permanent Link
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Along the lines of being a hero in an MMO, I also find it humorous that those have fought and bested the likes of Nefarian, C'Thun, and Ragnaros and now being told by the local fisherman to go to the lake and kill some eels so he can have something different to eat. Ah, how the tides have turned.
One solution to the Hellfire problem is heading out to Zangarmarsh or Terokkar if you're at 61 or so. At least on my server, there are fewer players there so there is not quite as much mob camping and giant groups of players.
One solution to the Hellfire problem is heading out to Zangarmarsh or Terokkar if you're at 61 or so. At least on my server, there are fewer players there so there is not quite as much mob camping and giant groups of players.
long the lines of being a hero in an MMO, I also find it humorous that those have fought and bested the likes of Nefarian, C'Thun, and Ragnaros and now being told by the local fisherman to go to the lake and kill some eels so he can have something different to eat.
You forgot to add that as a reward the fisherman will give them a choice of a ratty old hat he had lying around, an extra dagger, or a grubby ring he found in the bottom of a can -- all of which are more powerful than items dropped by the mightiest of epic bosses in the old world dungeons . . .
The 'lack of heroism' is definately a problem in burning crusade. I'm finding it extremely irritating to enter outland as an old level 60 and be greeted with . . . newbie quests. Most of these quests are the same things we did at level 5, just with better rewards. I've gone from quests to conquer ancient evils or save the world of from undead invasions to gathering plants and carrying letters. Sigh.
You forgot to add that as a reward the fisherman will give them a choice of a ratty old hat he had lying around, an extra dagger, or a grubby ring he found in the bottom of a can -- all of which are more powerful than items dropped by the mightiest of epic bosses in the old world dungeons . . .
The 'lack of heroism' is definately a problem in burning crusade. I'm finding it extremely irritating to enter outland as an old level 60 and be greeted with . . . newbie quests. Most of these quests are the same things we did at level 5, just with better rewards. I've gone from quests to conquer ancient evils or save the world of from undead invasions to gathering plants and carrying letters. Sigh.
# posted by 
: 19/1/07 22:48
: 19/1/07 22:48
Actually, in the heavily 'camped' areas of Hellfire, people are running into the exact OPPOSITE issue.
Mobs are spawning too quickly.
Blizzard has implemented a clever Dynamic Spawning system that controls spawns based upon several things, including number of players in the immediate area, frequency of mob deaths, &ct. I've noticed it implemented in the BE area too.
I died several times killing orcs in Zeth'Gor because the mobs were spawing so fast that me, on my shadow priest and my buddy an arms fury warrior couldn't kill them fast enough.
I think that if you changed your strategy for mob hunting, you'll find that you waste far less time looking for mobs than before.
The trick is to count how many other players there are in an area and if there are a lot, stay put and wait for mobs to spawn. If there aren't so many, it starts to make sense to go looking for them.
And as always, keep in mind that every area has a spawn table, in addition to the dynamic spawning system.
Mobs are spawning too quickly.
Blizzard has implemented a clever Dynamic Spawning system that controls spawns based upon several things, including number of players in the immediate area, frequency of mob deaths, &ct. I've noticed it implemented in the BE area too.
I died several times killing orcs in Zeth'Gor because the mobs were spawing so fast that me, on my shadow priest and my buddy an arms fury warrior couldn't kill them fast enough.
I think that if you changed your strategy for mob hunting, you'll find that you waste far less time looking for mobs than before.
The trick is to count how many other players there are in an area and if there are a lot, stay put and wait for mobs to spawn. If there aren't so many, it starts to make sense to go looking for them.
And as always, keep in mind that every area has a spawn table, in addition to the dynamic spawning system.
You bring up a good point on the hero issue, and I don't think it's limited to the Burning Crusade.
If you think back to EverQuest, having a level 60 character was an amazing feat. (because you've got to pour hours of your life into grinding)
In World of Warcraft, I felt like "Yet Another Player", or YAP. (I'd like to coin this acronym/phrase.) WoW is a good game. It's fun, by all means. But I don't have that feeling that people will look at me standing in front of the bank and think, "Wow! That's a HERO!"
The answer, though, is not to simply add grinding and heavy penalties to the game, like some companies believe. I hope a game like LOTRO comes up with a better way to give players a sense of pride in their character's accomplishments, without making the tasks time-sinks.
If you think back to EverQuest, having a level 60 character was an amazing feat. (because you've got to pour hours of your life into grinding)
In World of Warcraft, I felt like "Yet Another Player", or YAP. (I'd like to coin this acronym/phrase.) WoW is a good game. It's fun, by all means. But I don't have that feeling that people will look at me standing in front of the bank and think, "Wow! That's a HERO!"
The answer, though, is not to simply add grinding and heavy penalties to the game, like some companies believe. I hope a game like LOTRO comes up with a better way to give players a sense of pride in their character's accomplishments, without making the tasks time-sinks.
# posted by : 19/1/07 23:44
: 19/1/07 23:44
Remember SWG? Remember what it took to be a Jedi? If there were to be the rumoured 'hero' class in WoW we wouldn't want to go through a SWG Jedi mind trick to become one.
How about hero instances for 1 player to prove your hero class?
How about hero instances for 1 player to prove your hero class?
# posted by : 20/1/07 11:51
: 20/1/07 11:51
"Fantasy MMORPGs cast the player in the role of a hero."
Actually I'd argue that this is exactly what MMOs like WoW *can't* do. They may be premised on the idea that every player is a "hero," but as you point out, every game dynamic is the opposite of what is required to be one. The overcrowding just emphasizes it. A hero has to be able to actually change the world, which as a WoW player, you can't. At all.
I don't even think it's really possible to suspend disbelief here- the game constantly rubs your face in the fact that you're no different from any other player and none of you are changing anything. At times it's even comical. By pretending that players are "heroes" it leads to situations that emphasize the fact that we're not. Whatever you feel when you play it, it *isn't* heroism. You may feel a sense of accomplishment, etc, but that's very different. MMOs are social games, and even if you sometimes want to play solo (I do, as well), you can't escape from the fact that you can never be the "lone hero." It just can't happen, and the game has created a certain expectation that it can't fulfill. I think it's time that MMO developers realized this and designed accordingly. In a social game, other players should be more than just a hindrance, and something other than a reminder of your complete impotence in the world.
Actually I'd argue that this is exactly what MMOs like WoW *can't* do. They may be premised on the idea that every player is a "hero," but as you point out, every game dynamic is the opposite of what is required to be one. The overcrowding just emphasizes it. A hero has to be able to actually change the world, which as a WoW player, you can't. At all.
I don't even think it's really possible to suspend disbelief here- the game constantly rubs your face in the fact that you're no different from any other player and none of you are changing anything. At times it's even comical. By pretending that players are "heroes" it leads to situations that emphasize the fact that we're not. Whatever you feel when you play it, it *isn't* heroism. You may feel a sense of accomplishment, etc, but that's very different. MMOs are social games, and even if you sometimes want to play solo (I do, as well), you can't escape from the fact that you can never be the "lone hero." It just can't happen, and the game has created a certain expectation that it can't fulfill. I think it's time that MMO developers realized this and designed accordingly. In a social game, other players should be more than just a hindrance, and something other than a reminder of your complete impotence in the world.
The sense of accomplishment is definitely missing in BC right now.
Completing a Baron45 run gave me a good feeling (not only for doing it under 45 minutes, but for doing all the quest chain before that too); replacing one of my Tier 0.5 items in BC by doing a ten minute collection quest, simply made a mockery of that prior achievement.
I've only done one instance so far in BC, but it was incredibly easy, and only lasted for 30 minutes or so. Not much sense of achievement in that, either. I'm currently Lv 61 (was Lv60 for a long time pre-BC), but I've never raided or PvPd, so it's not as if I'm a hardcore player, either.
Completing a Baron45 run gave me a good feeling (not only for doing it under 45 minutes, but for doing all the quest chain before that too); replacing one of my Tier 0.5 items in BC by doing a ten minute collection quest, simply made a mockery of that prior achievement.
I've only done one instance so far in BC, but it was incredibly easy, and only lasted for 30 minutes or so. Not much sense of achievement in that, either. I'm currently Lv 61 (was Lv60 for a long time pre-BC), but I've never raided or PvPd, so it's not as if I'm a hardcore player, either.
# posted by : 22/1/07 11:54
: 22/1/07 11:54
Guildwars anyone?
Sorry.. just couldn't resist.. ;-)
I know this doesn't solve the problem with the hero feeling you described - but is does a good job not requiring lvl20 chars doing the noob quests in a new chapter and by instancing the world you hardly notice that the next group of unique hero's is there to save the world...
to bad that since Nightfall Guildwars contains the hero system (better henchies) that totally screwed the multi-player part of the game.. :-(
Sorry.. just couldn't resist.. ;-)
I know this doesn't solve the problem with the hero feeling you described - but is does a good job not requiring lvl20 chars doing the noob quests in a new chapter and by instancing the world you hardly notice that the next group of unique hero's is there to save the world...
to bad that since Nightfall Guildwars contains the hero system (better henchies) that totally screwed the multi-player part of the game.. :-(
# posted by : 22/1/07 14:15
: 22/1/07 14:15
The way i see it every hero must come up through the ranks. So head out there and kill the lowly orcs like a common soldier and someday you'll be one of the few fighting Illidian in his keep.
On a more detached view ... yes the spawn rate is ridiculous. But it was a warranted solution to mitigate the sheer number of people playing this game.
Blizz could set up more servers and limit the number of people on a server to a smaller number. But I understand that they dont have enough money or resources to spend since theyre struggling to make any money of this WoW thing.
( /sarcasm off )
On a more detached view ... yes the spawn rate is ridiculous. But it was a warranted solution to mitigate the sheer number of people playing this game.
Blizz could set up more servers and limit the number of people on a server to a smaller number. But I understand that they dont have enough money or resources to spend since theyre struggling to make any money of this WoW thing.
( /sarcasm off )
# posted by : 22/1/07 15:46
: 22/1/07 15:46
On heroism: WoW gives us a level playing field, which means everyone needs to start from ground zero. Which is why the old fisherman's hat or grubby ring replaces your pre-TBC epics. I also think that's funny, but hey, I've moved to a parallel universe where alien fisherman can hit for 500. I can live with that. Heroism is a journey that starts from ordinary beginnings (peaceful Hobbits, for example) and moves through difficult challenges. I think we'll get those challenges at 70 in TBC.
About adding more servers: if it were only so easy that Blizzard could throw money at it. If Blizzard doubled the number of servers overnight (an engineering impossibility, no matter how much money you have), people would then complain about underpopulation like they're doing in Ironforge right now.
About adding more servers: if it were only so easy that Blizzard could throw money at it. If Blizzard doubled the number of servers overnight (an engineering impossibility, no matter how much money you have), people would then complain about underpopulation like they're doing in Ironforge right now.
I was having similiar problems tagging mobs for quests. Using instant dots doesn't work either, since dots don't really tag the mobs until a few ticks, so if I got one tick in, then someone got a big hit, even if I did most of the rest of the damage I didn't get to loot it.
So finally my priest had to start using shadow word:death as an opener, to get a big instant hit in, which of course would knock out half my health :)
My friends left hellfire and quested in other zones and told me they were pretty clear there.
So finally my priest had to start using shadow word:death as an opener, to get a big instant hit in, which of course would knock out half my health :)
My friends left hellfire and quested in other zones and told me they were pretty clear there.
# posted by : 22/1/07 17:12
: 22/1/07 17:12
I understand what you are saying and agree with you. I also enjoy completing the soloable quests by myself figuring out the solutions to the problems without any outside assistance if possible, thank God for wowhead, thottbot, etc...
But as far feeling like the hero of the day I do fall short a lot of the times because as you stated if everyone is on the same level as you are that whole special feeling is gone in some sort of way...big fan by the way, first time commenter...I have my own little blog I update from time to time, litg.wordpress.com I would love some creative criticism. Regards.
But as far feeling like the hero of the day I do fall short a lot of the times because as you stated if everyone is on the same level as you are that whole special feeling is gone in some sort of way...big fan by the way, first time commenter...I have my own little blog I update from time to time, litg.wordpress.com I would love some creative criticism. Regards.
# posted by : 25/1/07 20:02
: 25/1/07 20:02
You can't be significant in a mmorpg.
Alot of players really try to become significant but ultimately it won't happen.
That's something to remember when you ask yourself if spending 5-10 hours for a chance at this new items is really worth it.
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Alot of players really try to become significant but ultimately it won't happen.
That's something to remember when you ask yourself if spending 5-10 hours for a chance at this new items is really worth it.
# posted by : 28/2/07 23:17
: 28/2/07 23:17<< Home
