Tobold's Blog
Thursday, July 06, 2006
 
Rewarded for being 40

One thing that struck me when comparing Molten Core with Zul'Gurub was that the two places are pretty much equal in difficulty. My guild's chance to wipe due to some hickup is as high when killing a MC boss than it is when killing a ZG boss. And for me as individual participant in the raid the difficulty is also very much the same. The only difference is that for MC you need to gather twice as many people, and then you get much better loot in MC than in ZG.

On yesterdays raid from two bosses we only got one real epic, the Will of Arlokk. We got two Primal Hakkari items, which can be exchanged for epics, but a) you need to have good faction for that, and then b) the epic item you get is slightly worse than MC loot. Compare for example MC's priest set, the Vestments of Prophecy with the ZG priest set, the Confessor's Raiment. And even if you consider the Primal Hakkari items to be as good as Molten Core loot, in most cases the ZG bosses just drop one of them plus one or two blue items, while the MC bosses drop at least two epic items each.

So as long as you can get 40 people together, going to Molten Core instead of going to Zul'Gurub is a no-brainer. Better loot for same challenge, great. Only when numbers are low, or you are waiting for MC to reset, or you are just looking for some variety, you are going to Zul'Gurub. Nobody would ever suggest that a guild first needs to get equipment from ZG to be able to go to MC, it is not a stepping stone on the way to BWL and Naxxramas as MC is.

So what the players are basically being rewarded for when going to MC is for their ability to form bigger groups. Which is something that I find strange. A 5-man dungeon is often more challenging for the individual player than a raid. But the 5-man dungeons yield the least good loot, and then the quality of the loot improves with the number of players. Now getting 40 players together at the same time is certainly not easy and requires some organizational talent. But that talent is only required from a few people, the guild and raid leaders, not all 40 participants. No wonder that raiding is so popular, the majority of participants is being rewarded with epics for the organizational skills of someone else. Organizing a good group to Scholomance yourself would be more difficult, and give you less reward for the same number of hours spent.
Comments:
Its funny you comparing ZG with MC. Right now i only log into WoW to play those two zones. I may be in the lucky position, to not need any loot from there anymore, but a take any ZG run over anything this game has to offer right now. For my taste ZG is the perfect WoW raid zone. I yet have to see anything more enjoyable. Visually and gameplay-wise ZG is top notch. Sure some loots are worse than MC stuff, but some are way better. From a paladin point of view ZG is item heaven. The peacekeeper items are better compared to its MC parts. The gloves are even better that T2 gloves.

Even though itemization may slightly worse on a global scale, the gameplay of ZG is still superior. With the recent changes the zone got even better. Some of the added loots from 1.11 are almost too good. This new 24 healing/damage ring is just pure gold. We may got lucky, but from what i heard its not so special anymore to get more epic drops in ZG now. Best loot table we got 2 epic items and 1 primal from the priest bosses, so 2 instant usable epics from one kill, wich is a fine ratio for my taste. This new epic +40 Atk ring is an almost common drop for us now, added to the usual loot tables.

I soooo hope, that the expansion is full of way more ZGs and less MCs. I can not stand anymore, to get locked into more "dark cellars" with 39 other guys to grind myself up.

A 5-man dungeon is often more challenging for the individual player than a raid.

Well i guess, thats comes from a player, who hasnt seen any real good raid content yet. There really are raid bosses, wich require every single one of the 40 players to be really focused. From what i heard in WoW, AQ40 has some bosses that demand this kind of attention. I bet Naxx is full of this, and yes even those mechanics where first seen in Everquest with "Omens of War", wich was my last EQ expansion and it staged the best big raids i ever experienced. Many "i can not freaking answer the incoming phone call, cause it could/would wipe my raid" situations. So it is possible to scale 5-man difficulty up to 40 players, reverse though it is not. Imagine a hardcore ZG Mandokir boss, where every emote-ignoring player would lead to instant failure. Or something like where you have to split the raid force into small groups, who all get a separate target.
 
Hi,
What Chris said makes me realize that the difference betweeb MC & ZG is tastes. Sometimes ppl like the feeling of a 20-man raid, or the environment that ZG provides.

ZG also is now the only place where you can get the "good enchants" for your leg and head armor pieces. So even ppl who can clear Naxxramas are going to do ZG to get those enchants.

MC is more of a weeding out zone for guilds. Requiring alot of perservearance from players and players learning how to carry out their basic raid functions... (healers heal tanks tank DPS don't pull aggro) kinda stuff.

MC is like the Deadmines of the end game instances. A crucible of gamers to raiders.
 
The difference in rewards between 20 and 40 man raids has often been pointed to a changing focus in World of Warcraft. Your right in that only organizational skills are required to get a 40 person raid going. Most people blame this change of focus on Jeff Kaplan but MC was in the game before he became lead developer. I did a small article on if Jeff could be blame.

http://relmstein.blogspot.com/2006/06/is-jeff-kaplan-ruining-wow.html
 
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