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Thursday, August 24, 2006
Healer, Tank, Random
The vocabulary of MMORPG players is changing all the time. Since a couple of months I hear more and more the term "random" used in the looking for group chat, as in "LF4M DM: tank, healer, 2 random". Initially I took the word at face value, and when somebody was looking for a "random" to go to a dungeon I wanted to go, I applied with my priest. Then I learned that a priest does *not* qualify as random, nor does a warrior. The exact definition of random varies, but it is either anyone who is not a priest or warrior, or for some people anyone from a damage dealing class. Some people do accept a paladin as random, some don't. As a druid or shaman you might need to argue with your talent build to qualify for random.
There is something slightly derogatory behind calling all damage dealers random. It suggests that there really is no difference between a mage, a hunter, a warlock, or a rogue. Damage is damage, and in many situations it doesn't matter who applies it in what way. Additional abilities like polymorph, varying degrees of area of effect spells, banishing, tranquilizing shots, or opening locks might make one class more desirable than the other for a specific expedition. But often that difference is small enough for the group to decide to rather go with any damage dealer, instead of waiting a long time for a specific class. We would *like* to get a mage, but we'd rather accept a hunter than stand around waiting.
That attitude is markedly different from most groups attitudes towards healers and tanks. Only very few groups are willing to accept alternatives to using a priest as main healer and a warrior as tank. Curiously you have a better chance to get the healer spot in a group as a shadow priest than as a restoration spec'd druid. And few people ever bother to ask the warrior whether he is actually having the gear and the talents for tanking.
Something similar happens in my guilds raid chat, only that the damage dealers are called "dps" there, which sounds less insulting than "random". As long as we have enough warlocks for banishing, enough mages for AoE and water, and enough hunters for tranquilizing shot, we don't care much what class the remaining damage dealers are. But in all fairness we are treating restoration spec'd druids and shamans as healers.
Anyone got an idea why a healer is a priest, a tank is a warrior, but for damage dealing you just need a "random"?
- posted by Tobold @ 8:47 AM Permanent Link
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I never got my priest past level 25. I gave her, had to be a her because of the name, a cool name. Darbanville. Forsaken of course.(Of the Cat Stevens fame.)
Anyway, she was constantly asked to group with parties trying to run WC or whatever. Since I maintain my own schedule I declined. But I can see the attraction and need for a Priest.
Lately I've been working on my Orc Warrior. Level 45 or so. He's questing with Droonda, a Shaman, and rl wife, and our friend, a 47 Shaman. Twice in two nights I get whispered "We need a tank in so-and-so. Can you help?" "Thanks but I'm working on quests."
That's just so funny.
Nobody wants a Priest themselves but they know they need one. Because mid-levels the other two classes that *could* heal are busy playing melee (feral/enhancement) or caster (balance/elemental) druids and shamans. The only healing you can get mid-level is from a Priest. Oh, wait. Unless they've gone to the dark side and are playing Shadow (ooh scarey) Priests. (Anyone ever see Priests in Alterac Valley in Shadow Form? Very rarely.)
Anyway, so my Warrior get's whispered like my Priest did.
Ah, ha ha. Little do they know that my Orc is a Fury build Warrior. (But with a shield and the right stance, does that even matter? Just keep the heals coming thank you.)
And raiding MC, the TANK is the cornerstone of the raid. Our Main Tank made or broke a raid. We'd be wiping in ZG until he showed up. With him tanking we cleared the place.
There's the MAIN TANK and there's everyone else. And a dead tank = a dead party. TANK + Priest + whatever. :)
Anyway, she was constantly asked to group with parties trying to run WC or whatever. Since I maintain my own schedule I declined. But I can see the attraction and need for a Priest.
Lately I've been working on my Orc Warrior. Level 45 or so. He's questing with Droonda, a Shaman, and rl wife, and our friend, a 47 Shaman. Twice in two nights I get whispered "We need a tank in so-and-so. Can you help?" "Thanks but I'm working on quests."
That's just so funny.
Nobody wants a Priest themselves but they know they need one. Because mid-levels the other two classes that *could* heal are busy playing melee (feral/enhancement) or caster (balance/elemental) druids and shamans. The only healing you can get mid-level is from a Priest. Oh, wait. Unless they've gone to the dark side and are playing Shadow (ooh scarey) Priests. (Anyone ever see Priests in Alterac Valley in Shadow Form? Very rarely.)
Anyway, so my Warrior get's whispered like my Priest did.
Ah, ha ha. Little do they know that my Orc is a Fury build Warrior. (But with a shield and the right stance, does that even matter? Just keep the heals coming thank you.)
And raiding MC, the TANK is the cornerstone of the raid. Our Main Tank made or broke a raid. We'd be wiping in ZG until he showed up. With him tanking we cleared the place.
There's the MAIN TANK and there's everyone else. And a dead tank = a dead party. TANK + Priest + whatever. :)
I actually try to avoid using warrior, priest, but say "tank" "healer" and "dps, prefer class" if we're looking for something. for that very reason, i've grouped enough to know good players are more important, and don't want to offend or turn away potential members.
Of course, the above poster is correct, pre 60, there are not many resto druids or healing specced pallys (nor are there many holy priests or protection warriors), it is just too annoying to level up with those builds. And perhaps the difference in healing ability between a feral and resto druid is much more than the difference between a shadow and holy priest. I main heal everywhere as a shadow priest, I've never had a problem. I've never played a druid, but often feral druids tell me they can't main heal.
But I think the bigger reason is just the prejudice players have. Resto druids make great healers, and you can bring a low level resto druid as main healer to any 5 man. Feral druids make great tanks. I've had bear tanks in just about every instance except UBRS and it has worked fine. Shaman can tank (though I don't enjoy healing them in that mail armor mobs go through like butter :) ) But you'll have a hard time convincing people to take a chance. People just repeat the same old ideas (like priests shouldn't take 15% resist to silence and fear, etc) without really thinking.
Of course, the above poster is correct, pre 60, there are not many resto druids or healing specced pallys (nor are there many holy priests or protection warriors), it is just too annoying to level up with those builds. And perhaps the difference in healing ability between a feral and resto druid is much more than the difference between a shadow and holy priest. I main heal everywhere as a shadow priest, I've never had a problem. I've never played a druid, but often feral druids tell me they can't main heal.
But I think the bigger reason is just the prejudice players have. Resto druids make great healers, and you can bring a low level resto druid as main healer to any 5 man. Feral druids make great tanks. I've had bear tanks in just about every instance except UBRS and it has worked fine. Shaman can tank (though I don't enjoy healing them in that mail armor mobs go through like butter :) ) But you'll have a hard time convincing people to take a chance. People just repeat the same old ideas (like priests shouldn't take 15% resist to silence and fear, etc) without really thinking.
# posted by 
: 24/8/06 16:01
: 24/8/06 16:01
It would help immensely if druids were given the same res spell as priests or paladins. The one they have is way too restrictive. ( I haven't played in six months, ignore this comment if things are different now.)
# posted by : 25/8/06 02:26
: 25/8/06 02:26
Interestingly, in most instances where a full-protection main tank is considered necessary, the tank only really contributes to the success of the party on boss fights. On trash mobs, crowd control + stun effects make the issue of holding agro mute. For those few times when that's not the case, oftentimes the rest of the party is fighting the MT for agro, again, nullifying their contribution. So the party is hamstrung by the warrior's low damage - until the boss fights.
In boss fights, the party will usually cooperate with the main tank, which allows a warrior of any spec to hold the agro of the boss.
--
My other thought is that the cookiecutter Tank,Healer+3Random is a good formula for pickup groups, because all it requires of each member is to do their job properly. Any other combination can require a completely different strategy than usual. For example, a party that includes a feral druid and a retribution paladin may yet have enough healing to complete an instance, but not if those two are not playing well together (not healing each others targets, watching each other's mana, etc.)
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In boss fights, the party will usually cooperate with the main tank, which allows a warrior of any spec to hold the agro of the boss.
--
My other thought is that the cookiecutter Tank,Healer+3Random is a good formula for pickup groups, because all it requires of each member is to do their job properly. Any other combination can require a completely different strategy than usual. For example, a party that includes a feral druid and a retribution paladin may yet have enough healing to complete an instance, but not if those two are not playing well together (not healing each others targets, watching each other's mana, etc.)
# posted by : 26/8/06 04:05
: 26/8/06 04:05<< Home
