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Tuesday, October 31, 2006
Age, luxury, and World of Warcraft
I am 41 years old. Whether wisdom comes with age is debatable, but one thing that is for certain is that for most people the financial situation improves with age. And with the improved finances comes more luxury: I'm driving a new car, while as a student I drove a clapped-out 10 year old Ford. I can always afford the latest graphics card and other hardware. I sometimes visit nice and expensive restaurants, which I could never have afforded 20 years ago. I even fly business class, though that is paid for by my company. The one thing where I am paying exactly the same, and receive exactly the same level of service, is for World of Warcraft and other MMORPG.
Recently there was a discussion going on here whether playing a harder MMORPG would have the advantage that less children would play it, thus improving the level of maturity of chat and behavior. I'm not sure that would work; it could be that older, more mature players have too many Real Life ® constraints, and would rather play an easier, more casual game. While bratty kids with lots of time on their hands aren't really daunted by hard games, taking it as a challenge. It would be possible to create a MMORPG for a mature audience, for example by making it a lot less violent, see A Tale in the Desert. But if you prefer the more game-like MMORPGs like World of Warcraft, it is hard to think of a configuration where the mature players wouldn't have to suffer from the immature ones.
So I was thinking about luxury servers for World of Warcraft. Imagine special WoW servers where the monthly fee is $30 instead of $15. In exchange you get faster server hardware, 99.9% uptime guarantee by having servers doubled up, faster GM response to your problems, a better customer service telephone line, and whatever else you could think of as improved customer service. But the real advantage would be a non-advertised one: most players on these servers would be older, and more mature. Because kids simply couldn't afford it, or would be unwilling to pay for the luxury, while middle-aged people like me wouldn't mind paying more for better service.
I know Everquest tried something similar, but I don't know if the idea ever took off. I know a lot of older MMORPG secretly wish they could somehow get rid of the immature kids that can be such a nuisance, with their potty mouthed general chat, attention span in the millisecond region, and hopping around like Kermit the Frog all the time. But would they actually pay to get rid of them, and to enjoy a better customer service from Blizzard at the same time? What do you think?
- posted by Tobold @ 9:45 AM Permanent Link
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We're the same age. Too funny.
Yeah, if I could pay a little extra, I might. (Though I'd have my wife's account to cover as well.) I don't have too much trouble in-game though.
As for hopping... Well, on my Night Elf I'm thinking every 3rd jump is a flip. I'm still conducting the study though. 2 years later. The data sample is huge. My Orc and Tauren are downright earthbound in comparison.
Yeah, if I could pay a little extra, I might. (Though I'd have my wife's account to cover as well.) I don't have too much trouble in-game though.
As for hopping... Well, on my Night Elf I'm thinking every 3rd jump is a flip. I'm still conducting the study though. 2 years later. The data sample is huge. My Orc and Tauren are downright earthbound in comparison.
# posted by 
: 31/10/06 12:53
: 31/10/06 12:53
Much as I rebel against elitism on principle you could well be onto something there. The aging text based MUD Gemstone IV actually has such a scheme. Committed players pay a staggering $49.95 a month for platinum service which allows them access to a restricted server with more committed players: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GemStone_IV. If people are prepared to pay that sort of money for a text based game I imagine that a similar feature in WOW would also be a success.
Congratulations and commiserations in equal measure on your Birthday. Sure you are still only a youngster - I am actually one year older than you. I understand your comments about having more money available but unfortunately my kids have conspired to increase their financial needs pretty much in line with our income so I probably have less money to spend on myself now that I had in my twenties!!!
Congratulations and commiserations in equal measure on your Birthday. Sure you are still only a youngster - I am actually one year older than you. I understand your comments about having more money available but unfortunately my kids have conspired to increase their financial needs pretty much in line with our income so I probably have less money to spend on myself now that I had in my twenties!!!
# posted by : 31/10/06 13:23
: 31/10/06 13:23
I'm a bit older than you are. :)
I don't think it's as easy as that - yes, if it could be done, I would gladly pay more to not have to put up with immature players...but they're not all kids. I'm in a raiding guild on Aggramar, and most of the members seem to be literate, funny, and mature...and my best friend in the guild is a sixteen-year-old. Would I want to shut him out? No, of course not.
Paying higher fees isn't the answer, anyway - I'm a web developer on a social networking site, and the teen demographic has a huge amount of cash to spend. They could afford a higher fee, and then we would still be subjected to the illiterates in the LFG channel. (Yes, that's my pet peeve. Not l33t spk, but sheer inability to communicate in anything resembling proper English.)
I don't think it's as easy as that - yes, if it could be done, I would gladly pay more to not have to put up with immature players...but they're not all kids. I'm in a raiding guild on Aggramar, and most of the members seem to be literate, funny, and mature...and my best friend in the guild is a sixteen-year-old. Would I want to shut him out? No, of course not.
Paying higher fees isn't the answer, anyway - I'm a web developer on a social networking site, and the teen demographic has a huge amount of cash to spend. They could afford a higher fee, and then we would still be subjected to the illiterates in the LFG channel. (Yes, that's my pet peeve. Not l33t spk, but sheer inability to communicate in anything resembling proper English.)
# posted by : 31/10/06 13:23
: 31/10/06 13:23
That´s a really interesting idea. As for EQ`s Legend server i think it worked pretty much. Never played there cause i never saw the benefits and it was kinda expensive for my financial situation at that time ;)
I am not this experienced as you guys, i guess you would still label me "kid", but even with 25 i often found myself as one of the older players in a WoW guild. I have yet to figure out if this is good or bad. Higher costs as a filter for the community will work, the question is: are there enough people to warrant such a server? I have my doubts about it. You could make a Legend-like offer, where patches are introduced earlier than the cheap servers, but the cheap server community would go on a rampage, cause let`s face it, the more younger players do represent the majority here and it is unlikely, that Blizzard would work against them.
Would i pay 30$ for a more mature environment? Sure. But that does not solve any problem. I know when i started playing MMOs in 2000 i was one of those players, i now whine about. In UO and in EQ i found older gamers, who teached me so to speak. Instead of buying out of the problem, we should focus on to solve it.
I am not this experienced as you guys, i guess you would still label me "kid", but even with 25 i often found myself as one of the older players in a WoW guild. I have yet to figure out if this is good or bad. Higher costs as a filter for the community will work, the question is: are there enough people to warrant such a server? I have my doubts about it. You could make a Legend-like offer, where patches are introduced earlier than the cheap servers, but the cheap server community would go on a rampage, cause let`s face it, the more younger players do represent the majority here and it is unlikely, that Blizzard would work against them.
Would i pay 30$ for a more mature environment? Sure. But that does not solve any problem. I know when i started playing MMOs in 2000 i was one of those players, i now whine about. In UO and in EQ i found older gamers, who teached me so to speak. Instead of buying out of the problem, we should focus on to solve it.
# posted by : 31/10/06 13:24
: 31/10/06 13:24
It should also be remembered that the older demographic is fully capable having it's own misbehaving trouble makers. Heck, I recal how a developer of a hard core flight sim has got death threats, and your awarage flight sim fan isn't a teen ager.
And lets face it, you old people can be quite frustating to play with due your slowness and clumsiness. :)
And lets face it, you old people can be quite frustating to play with due your slowness and clumsiness. :)
# posted by : 31/10/06 13:37
: 31/10/06 13:37
A definite no from me, you might succeed a "little" in splitting mature from immature, but you'll also be splitting those that have more money than others and just because they have less money to spend does not mean they are any less mature. Also I read somewhere that a large portion of griefers were actually middle aged men with plenty of cash to spend.
# posted by : 31/10/06 13:40
: 31/10/06 13:40
I have found a lot of immature players are generally college age but not always. Some do have the cash to shell out $50 bucks a month but I would agree that the higher price would scare away most of the riff raff.
The problem is where you choose to draw the line. $30? $50? I don't think my wife and I would still be playing WoW 2 years after release for $30 per account even though I can afford it.
Maz
The problem is where you choose to draw the line. $30? $50? I don't think my wife and I would still be playing WoW 2 years after release for $30 per account even though I can afford it.
Maz
# posted by : 31/10/06 15:19
: 31/10/06 15:19
A friend of mine and I were actually discussing this very topic after the last guild LAN party we attended. We have 10 adults in our guild and we are all officers. One of the tasks that none of the officers enjoy is policing the new recruits who are mostly between the ages of 15 and 21. I'm only 25 so I'm one of the younger officers, but having grown up my entire life around adults and almost shunning people my own age due to immature behavior, I would be more than happy to shell out 30 bucks per month if it would guarantee better service with less lag and a higher overall player age group.
I doubt whether blizzard would be able to restrict age groups on their servers because it is obviously a form of discrimination, even though technically people under 18 don't have rights. Plus, I think that plan could end up backfiring because the most annoying players I have run into are the children with rich mommies and daddies who give them everything, and thus they think the guild should do the same.
I'm hoping that Age of Conan being rated M along with the twitch based combat system will help cut down on the amount of children playing, but I doubt it.
I recently met a 28 year old player of Lineage II who said that there are almost no children in Lineage-and if they are, they mind their manners- because if someone gets on your nerves in that game, you kill em. Harsh, but maybe that is what adults need: unrestricted PVP to regulate behavior.
I doubt whether blizzard would be able to restrict age groups on their servers because it is obviously a form of discrimination, even though technically people under 18 don't have rights. Plus, I think that plan could end up backfiring because the most annoying players I have run into are the children with rich mommies and daddies who give them everything, and thus they think the guild should do the same.
I'm hoping that Age of Conan being rated M along with the twitch based combat system will help cut down on the amount of children playing, but I doubt it.
I recently met a 28 year old player of Lineage II who said that there are almost no children in Lineage-and if they are, they mind their manners- because if someone gets on your nerves in that game, you kill em. Harsh, but maybe that is what adults need: unrestricted PVP to regulate behavior.
On the one hand I totally agree with the idea of paying for luxuary servers, especially if we could be assured of better technical service.
But then several members of my guid are in their early 20's and some college aged (ie. Financially Strapped). I would miss some of their antics and opinions. After all, having Ventrilo with nothing fuddy duddies might get boring after a while.
PS. I might not be 20 (or 30) anymore but I still feel like a teenager.
But then several members of my guid are in their early 20's and some college aged (ie. Financially Strapped). I would miss some of their antics and opinions. After all, having Ventrilo with nothing fuddy duddies might get boring after a while.
PS. I might not be 20 (or 30) anymore but I still feel like a teenager.
Consider one of the other sources of major frustration on servers, the ever discommodious Gold Farmer.
Would the higher price put them off due to decreasing profit margins, or would they target those servers, knowing that more mature - and in this instance by that we mean richer - players would be found there?
Would the higher price put them off due to decreasing profit margins, or would they target those servers, knowing that more mature - and in this instance by that we mean richer - players would be found there?
# posted by : 31/10/06 17:04
: 31/10/06 17:04
Hi Tobold,
I'm 38 and always thought I was one of the oldest players around. But evidently not, on your blogspot community! I'm also well-off, but but very cheap, so I would balk at paying 2x for upgraded service.
What if Blizzard just made voluntary mature servers, the way they make voluntary RP servers? I do agree that it would be stronger to provide actual incentive for people to segregate.
Haha, the older-person servers could actually run a bit slower and use bigger fonts...
I'm 38 and always thought I was one of the oldest players around. But evidently not, on your blogspot community! I'm also well-off, but but very cheap, so I would balk at paying 2x for upgraded service.
What if Blizzard just made voluntary mature servers, the way they make voluntary RP servers? I do agree that it would be stronger to provide actual incentive for people to segregate.
Haha, the older-person servers could actually run a bit slower and use bigger fonts...
Haha, the older-person servers could actually run a bit slower and use bigger fonts...
Lol, I like the idea. I'm sure *that* would keep the kids out.
Lol, I like the idea. I'm sure *that* would keep the kids out.
On the older person servers you wouldn't get a regular Mount at 40, that's actually when your Epic Mount would become available. Something small, fast & expensive that screams "Mid-life Crisis".
Talk about a waste of money. For starters you aren't going to get away from the annoying players. They exist in all the MMOs. The thing is that you really haven't experienced the really annoying players found in hardcore games like EQ. WoW players are a bunch of softies compared to other MMOs.
But lets say you pay $30 bucks a month vs the $15 bucks a month. It really isn't worth it to the MMO company because now for only $15 extra a month they have to deal with your needs and higher expectations that come from you paying more. Even if they do offer something Sony did with EQ you will most likely find that you are in an empty world, which begs to ask the question "Why aren't you playing a single player game?"
It feels to me like you don't use the /ignore command enough. Also you seem to be playing the victim when nobody is forcing you to group or play with people. If you don't like the people in your guild quit and go join another one. If you can't stand the people in your group quit (I always do if I end up dying twice). Don't waste your time talking to people who just hurl insults.
My biggest problems was kill stealing and camping mobs but in WoW you don't have any of those headaches. Everything is candy coated in WoW.
But lets say you pay $30 bucks a month vs the $15 bucks a month. It really isn't worth it to the MMO company because now for only $15 extra a month they have to deal with your needs and higher expectations that come from you paying more. Even if they do offer something Sony did with EQ you will most likely find that you are in an empty world, which begs to ask the question "Why aren't you playing a single player game?"
It feels to me like you don't use the /ignore command enough. Also you seem to be playing the victim when nobody is forcing you to group or play with people. If you don't like the people in your guild quit and go join another one. If you can't stand the people in your group quit (I always do if I end up dying twice). Don't waste your time talking to people who just hurl insults.
My biggest problems was kill stealing and camping mobs but in WoW you don't have any of those headaches. Everything is candy coated in WoW.
On the jumpy Nelfs-- the flip depends on what foot the character is on; with my home (cable) internet, I can get about 9 of ten to be flips by hitting jump just as the left foot hits the ground.
It's something to do when you're running around that bloody HUGE city.
It's something to do when you're running around that bloody HUGE city.
# posted by : 1/11/06 04:08
: 1/11/06 04:08
Yet another 40-something :o) Well, 40-nothing actually.
On the face of it a great idea. Better supported servers, perhaps even a special forum where we could chat to Blizzard without "BLU answr NOW, why is dorf so imba WFT" and other such incomprehensible nonsense.
It appeals in the same way Business Class, Posrche dealers and the BA Exec Lounge appeal, one of the few perks of being a business-waistlined balding middle aged bloke !
But wouldn't it be boring ? Yes, LFG might be less silly, but instead it would be "Can anyone recommend and IFA" "What endowment mortgage should I get". I want to avoid real life for an hour or two.
On the face of it a great idea. Better supported servers, perhaps even a special forum where we could chat to Blizzard without "BLU answr NOW, why is dorf so imba WFT" and other such incomprehensible nonsense.
It appeals in the same way Business Class, Posrche dealers and the BA Exec Lounge appeal, one of the few perks of being a business-waistlined balding middle aged bloke !
But wouldn't it be boring ? Yes, LFG might be less silly, but instead it would be "Can anyone recommend and IFA" "What endowment mortgage should I get". I want to avoid real life for an hour or two.
# posted by : 1/11/06 14:08
: 1/11/06 14:08
I am not sure , I think the big issue is the one Tobold pointed out in A Tale in the Desert: "less violence". More money won't keep them away, but less attraction to the server will.
For instance RP servers generally have older populations because the kids think we're a bunch of weanies or losers and easy to "pwn". So there aren't as many kids on our servers (thought there are enough). (Except for the ones who suck at pvp and come here for the purpose of "pwning noob rpers lolz!" but they are still bad :) ).
If it just was about better, faster service, a lot of kids would pay thinking "now I will pwn you noobs with my ultra fast h4x server!". You'd have to combine it with other rules to make them not want to play.
I know many RPers have petitioned blizz for the same thing: RP servers where the TOS for RP servers is actually enforced. e.g. no names like "Ipwnyou", no leetspeak or meta-game conversations in /say and /yell, etc. But then a lot of people might not want to have those restrictions. (our server kirin tor is pretty laid back, a lot of non RPers are here just to get away from the kids, so it's not like a bunch of elitist LARPers running around - there are other RP servers for that :) )
Alternatively I'd pay for a age restricted 30+ server, or go as low as 25 maybe, if there were way of verifying age.
And yes I am slow and clumsy! That's why I play an RPG and not FPS! ;) And why I am much better at pvp on my priest than I ever was on my rogue - even with SCT and all the stun timing mods.
For instance RP servers generally have older populations because the kids think we're a bunch of weanies or losers and easy to "pwn". So there aren't as many kids on our servers (thought there are enough). (Except for the ones who suck at pvp and come here for the purpose of "pwning noob rpers lolz!" but they are still bad :) ).
If it just was about better, faster service, a lot of kids would pay thinking "now I will pwn you noobs with my ultra fast h4x server!". You'd have to combine it with other rules to make them not want to play.
I know many RPers have petitioned blizz for the same thing: RP servers where the TOS for RP servers is actually enforced. e.g. no names like "Ipwnyou", no leetspeak or meta-game conversations in /say and /yell, etc. But then a lot of people might not want to have those restrictions. (our server kirin tor is pretty laid back, a lot of non RPers are here just to get away from the kids, so it's not like a bunch of elitist LARPers running around - there are other RP servers for that :) )
Alternatively I'd pay for a age restricted 30+ server, or go as low as 25 maybe, if there were way of verifying age.
And yes I am slow and clumsy! That's why I play an RPG and not FPS! ;) And why I am much better at pvp on my priest than I ever was on my rogue - even with SCT and all the stun timing mods.
# posted by : 1/11/06 16:31
: 1/11/06 16:31
I'm older than you Tobold, and depressed now that I find it so. I get tired of the immature behavior but as others have said, it's not always children. Another issue would be children playing on their parent's account. My nieces and newphew play on mine when they visit - more often than I'd like, but that's not the point here. *Smile* So even if a parent chose to pay the premium service for themselves, they might not think twice about letting a child also have a toon on that account, which puts everyone back at square one.
My time is a very valuable to me. I'm almost always willing to pay more, for better service of any kind. However, in the MMO/Internet space, guarantees would be hard to come by.
My time is a very valuable to me. I'm almost always willing to pay more, for better service of any kind. However, in the MMO/Internet space, guarantees would be hard to come by.
# posted by : 3/11/06 03:50
: 3/11/06 03:50
Right. To be completely honest with you, how can you complain about children playing WoW, when it is mainly a child's game.
Plus you are 41 years old, and should probably be doing something better with your time then wasting it on aa online game. FOR KIDS.
Plus you are 41 years old, and should probably be doing something better with your time then wasting it on aa online game. FOR KIDS.
# posted by : 24/5/08 17:47
: 24/5/08 17:47
i'm 30 going to be 31 this year and i can bear kids sometimes,but some of the time it just ruins the game.
Having an immature crowd go rampant around insulting other people and otherwise disrupting the game,is damaging.
I would certainly pay more if i could get the older ones who are better behaved(because some 20 year olds are even immature.)
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Having an immature crowd go rampant around insulting other people and otherwise disrupting the game,is damaging.
I would certainly pay more if i could get the older ones who are better behaved(because some 20 year olds are even immature.)
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