Tobold's Blog
Monday, February 05, 2007

My World of Warcraft evening ended on a rather unhappy note. I went with my guild to the Caverns of Time for the first time, to rescue Thrall. The final boss of that instance dropped some nice blue shoulders with +35 to healing spells, the Pauldrons of Sufferance. And the warlock presses NEED, rolled higher than me, and won the item. Which was especially annoying because earlier some cloth pants had dropped, which would have been a minor upgrade to my epic ones, and I had passed because that same warlock needed them more than me. So he ended up with two good items, including a healing one, and I got nothing. Damn ninjalooters, you'd think you're joining a guild group instead of a pickup group to escape them.

He said he was sorry, and his excuse was that he had thought the item was +35 to both healing and damage spells. And he got a point there. Curiously on green items the spell bonuses are displayed better, in the same font as the stat bonuses, and more succint. But on blue and purple items the spell bonuses are written in a smaller font, in green, and in a longer phrase. The ones that give +healing and spell damage are easy to confuse with the ones that only give +healing.

Nevertheless, I'm always taking the time to really look at each dropped item, and to compare it with what I'm already wearing. If it isn't much better than what I have, and could be useful to other classes in the group, I even ask whether they need it first. A little loot discipline goes a long way in keeping everybody happy, especially in guild groups, where you are likely to group with the same people again. Hitting need before even properly reading the description and without regards to others is just not the way to do it.
EquipCompare is great, it should be in the base UI. It might not stop mistakes like that but it makes them a bit less likely.

I wouldn't consider that ninja looting though. That term is currently being bloated to include any loot behaviour that people don't like and as such it's losing it's power.

It used to mean things like grabbing all the items from the chest without asking or using master looter to take all the items for yourself. Now when I hear someone shouting accusations of ninja I wonder if they mean that some shaman rolled need on an item that they feel should only be for priests (invariably they'd be the priest in this scenario).

In 'ninja' is to be completed diluted perhaps we need a new word for the traditional black dressed, grab the loot and hearth out types.
I agree, that sounds accidental, especially in a guild group.

In guild groups, or where guildmates compose most of the group, we use a guild standard looting. Greens are always greed, unless it is an upgrade of course, and blues are always pass. Then after the action hsa died down, you can calmly check the stats, and the person who really wants it can snag it. This is probably due to the old, very short, timer, although I'm not sure. In the nearly one year since I joined these guys, it's always been in effect.
I'm in the same boat as Oz. Even when running in guild groups, for boss drops we all pass. 100% of the time. We could be doing a run as my Paladin, rest of the group is a Hunter, a Rogue, a Druid, and a Warlock, plate drops, I'm the only one who can use it, and we still all pass.

Fact is, that we're human and we make mistakes. By passing and talking about it afterwards, you can make sure you don't make any mistakes in the rush as you read it.

This is actually something I almost did, even worse than the Warlock in your group. Back when I was originally leveling, right after Maraudon was released, I was doing it with my old set group Mage(me), Druid, Hunter, and two Paladins. We got down to the Keeper of the Grove boss, and smacked him something good, and he dropped his +20 or 25 INT helm, along with some STA and some SPI. My eyes got bigger than pie plates as I saw that. It was more INT than I'd seen on any one piece up to that point. Had we been doing need or greed rolls, I would have rolled, without noticing that said head armor was leather, so I couldn't have worn it.

Thus passing as a safety measure is a good thing, even amongst friends and guildies, because stuff happens, we get excited and might make a mistake. This lowers the chance of it.
My guild got to the point where we were using Need/Greed looting in MC and BWL because most people didn't need anything and looting slows down runs, especially with 40 people.

Now we are so quick about it, EquipCompare is almost essential for efficient looting, and you just move on.

Tobold, does sound like an honoest mistake. +35 dmg & healing would be an insta-need for my warlock and he has AQ40 shoulders, Doomcaller.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was a honest mistake. That doesn't change much the fact that I felt disappointed and angry about it. I'm only human too.

I wouldn't consider that ninja looting though. That term is currently being bloated to include any loot behaviour that people don't like and as such it's losing it's power.

I think you need to use terms like ninja looting and kill stealing in the context of the individual game. Technically kill stealing is impossible in WoW, and ninja looting can only be done if the loot options are set stupidly or with chests. So now when somebody tags a mob you already debuffed or were clearly targeting, you speak of kill steal. And if somebody rolls needs on an item he shouldn't have, you talk of ninja looting. Yeah, the terms get weaker, but that is because the games get softer and don't allow the real stuff any more.
I think its funny how much time people spend arguing about the drops in the game.

When I join even a PuG, I say upfront my spec and generally what specific Item I will need roll on. If there are no problems with that upfront Ill go on the pug, if there are I wait for the next one.

As for regular and routine runs, accident rolls happen and its understandable. Having a master looter can make the run happen alot faster and is a far more efficient way to do loot in smaller groups. My best suggestion for groups that feel like they got ripped off on loot at any point is to say so, but leave it at that (a one time occurance) as when you do instances with friends/guildies they understand how lame ninjalooting is and would avoid it the 2nd time.

There is however one type of ninjalooting I have absolutely no tolerance for (insta-kicked from group) is when people roll for "alt" gear or roll for items they cannot equip or are not actually upgrades and infact downgrades. Ill give them their free trip to their home village at the expense of our group losing a ninjalooter (which, lol is more like a boon than a burdon).
This is easily resolved by passing on all and then rolling for those who need or those who want to vendor/disenchant. A minute or two spent determining who should get an item is worth it compared to the time spent in a dungeon and essentially eliminates these types of mistakes.
We always roll Need/Greed on greens or BoEs, and always Pass on Blues and BoPs. This gives you time to thik about whether you really need an item, and discuss it with your team as to how useful it is to your character, or whether someone else in the team could use it better than you.
That way there are no 'oops I did that by mistake' excuses.
On my server its been "pass on BoP" unwritten rule all the time. I know other servers dont have this and server-transfers have messed this up a bit. So even in a guild-run we pass first, then discuss.
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