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Monday, March 26, 2007
Turbine escapes Blizzard lawsuit
Just kidding, but the UK's Court of Appeal just ruled that ideas behind computer games can be copied. So even if Blizzard noticed that the user interface layout, game controls, and many aspects of gameplay in LotRO are quite similar to WoW, they can't claim copyright infringement. Only the graphics itself and the source code are legally protected.
Not that Blizzard would have tried that, they themselves "copied" a lot of ideas from previous games. And computer games in general copy a lot from each other. Inside of one genre of computer games, game controls are often identical or similar. Many first person shooters play the same way, as do many real time strategy games. Every action RPG since Diablo used a red health bar and a blue mana bar, with red and blue potions to fill them up. Some things just become industry standards, and unless there is a compelling reason to change, people just stick to these conventions.
The obvious danger is that this prevents innovation. I'm still waiting for MMORPGs to break out of the same old "autoattack plus special attack hotkeys" mold, although I'm sceptical of proposed solutions to make combat based on real-time clicking (what if you have lag?). On the other side World of Warcraft has taught (<- notice the correct form of this verb this time) game developers that polish sells better than half-baked novel ideas. Ideally somebody develops a new idea, and others take it up and refine it, until the idea becomes overused and somebody else comes up with another new idea. There is still some room in the MMORPG market for games similar to World of Warcraft, with just incremental improvements and a few novel features. We'll still have to wait a couple of years for a game to break the mould and come out with a very new idea of gameplay in a virtual online world.
- posted by Tobold @ 2:06 PM Permanent Link
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*claps hands for correct use of Taught*
:)
In the podcast discussion panel I was working on for the Vault site, we brought up this very same topic. Your thoughts echo our own. It's just a shame people prefer to ramble on about "this game 'stealing' this from that game" instead. But what can you do?
Write blogs and hope someone reads them and sees the light, I s'pose.
:)
In the podcast discussion panel I was working on for the Vault site, we brought up this very same topic. Your thoughts echo our own. It's just a shame people prefer to ramble on about "this game 'stealing' this from that game" instead. But what can you do?
Write blogs and hope someone reads them and sees the light, I s'pose.
DDO had a more advanced combat clicking system that worked ok. Of course, I don't think that was the right game for it, since most of us old timer pen and paper D&D fans were not interested since we suck at twitchy games. I hope Conan or Warhammer will have an interface more like that.
I have to laugh when people call LOTRO a WoW clone, they obviously haven't played many games, MMO or offline RPGs or otherwise. They're all clones! All are one and one are all
I have to laugh when people call LOTRO a WoW clone, they obviously haven't played many games, MMO or offline RPGs or otherwise. They're all clones! All are one and one are all
# posted by 
: 26/3/07 15:05
: 26/3/07 15:05
you need to check out turbines AC2 before you talk about who's copying who's interface :) I went from playing AC2 for years, and was surprised to see the same interface style in the *new* game, WoW. Hardly anything in LoTR Online that they didn't have in AC2 way back when.
# posted by : 26/3/07 15:37
: 26/3/07 15:37
TOBOLD!! T_T answer me man! =D
Whats the name of ur mom? I think i know u from the game..we meet once...dunno...tell meh! =P
Whats the name of ur mom? I think i know u from the game..we meet once...dunno...tell meh! =P
# posted by : 26/3/07 16:23
: 26/3/07 16:23
I wouldn't mind if games started copying WoW's graphics. Pseudo realistic is nice and all, but stylized graphics with low system demands are neat as well (and far too rare).
Of course most games look just plain bland. :)
Of course most games look just plain bland. :)
" André said...
TOBOLD!! T_T answer me man! =D
Whats the name of ur mom? I think i know u from the game..we meet once...dunno...tell meh! =P "
Forwarded to Jack Thombson with note "see what games do to people"...
TOBOLD!! T_T answer me man! =D
Whats the name of ur mom? I think i know u from the game..we meet once...dunno...tell meh! =P "
Forwarded to Jack Thombson with note "see what games do to people"...
lol at the "taught" correction :)
As an older person myself, I like the relative non-twitchiness of WoW. I'm even thinking of playing some turn-based RPG's and strategy games for a diversion from WoW. For example, one demo I picked up this weekend and played to death is "Puzzle Quest" which is an interesting WoW-meets-Bejeweled concept. They take character classes and abilities like the Druid's Entangling Roots and the Warrior's Execute, and translate them into moves you can perform on a Bejeweled gameboard. :-)
As an older person myself, I like the relative non-twitchiness of WoW. I'm even thinking of playing some turn-based RPG's and strategy games for a diversion from WoW. For example, one demo I picked up this weekend and played to death is "Puzzle Quest" which is an interesting WoW-meets-Bejeweled concept. They take character classes and abilities like the Druid's Entangling Roots and the Warrior's Execute, and translate them into moves you can perform on a Bejeweled gameboard. :-)
So even if Blizzard noticed that the user interface layout, game controls, and many aspects of gameplay in LotRO are quite similar to WoW, they can't claim copyright infringement.
They could if they'd patented it, wich they easily could have. Looking at how much money Blizzard is turning in, things like patents for game elements will soon be reality.
I do not care if the genre eats it own crap, e.g. copies itself over and over again on core elements, but when simple graphical elements like UI bars and button borders get ripped of so obviously it is retarded. Coming up with the concept for grinds, instances, talents and such does not take a actual craftmanship like drawing a damn interface element, so yes, such things should be protected by law, no matter if patented or not. A drawing is not an idea anymore, that's why such things should be protected.
"autoattack plus special attack hotkeys"
Well as long as server-client-models do not progress significantly, more advanced combat mechanics are way off. Look what the other popular online genre does. Core-wise even the most recent FPS is the same as Wolfenstein: you aim and you shoot in the same way you did decades ago. What changed is anything around it, same will happen in MMOs. The precision of online games regarding controls is very limited yet. Look what happened with this Street Fighter II. port for the 360. Playing this online on a higher level is almost impossible, cause all those tiny important details get lost. No more frame-timed combos, just an awfull mess.
They could if they'd patented it, wich they easily could have. Looking at how much money Blizzard is turning in, things like patents for game elements will soon be reality.
I do not care if the genre eats it own crap, e.g. copies itself over and over again on core elements, but when simple graphical elements like UI bars and button borders get ripped of so obviously it is retarded. Coming up with the concept for grinds, instances, talents and such does not take a actual craftmanship like drawing a damn interface element, so yes, such things should be protected by law, no matter if patented or not. A drawing is not an idea anymore, that's why such things should be protected.
"autoattack plus special attack hotkeys"
Well as long as server-client-models do not progress significantly, more advanced combat mechanics are way off. Look what the other popular online genre does. Core-wise even the most recent FPS is the same as Wolfenstein: you aim and you shoot in the same way you did decades ago. What changed is anything around it, same will happen in MMOs. The precision of online games regarding controls is very limited yet. Look what happened with this Street Fighter II. port for the 360. Playing this online on a higher level is almost impossible, cause all those tiny important details get lost. No more frame-timed combos, just an awfull mess.
# posted by : 26/3/07 17:06
: 26/3/07 17:06
The obvious danger is that this prevents innovation.
BS. There is no correlation beetween copyright and innovation. That's like asking every band to have their own kind of music. Single rock band, single rap artist. How lame and unsinspiring.
The more I read this blog, the more I'm desperated with the easy-standard-empty quotes you overfeed us.
Your art to sump up things in a nutshell lacks interest.
You are just another whiner Tobold.
BS. There is no correlation beetween copyright and innovation. That's like asking every band to have their own kind of music. Single rock band, single rap artist. How lame and unsinspiring.
The more I read this blog, the more I'm desperated with the easy-standard-empty quotes you overfeed us.
Your art to sump up things in a nutshell lacks interest.
You are just another whiner Tobold.
# posted by : 26/3/07 17:51
: 26/3/07 17:51
I'm not sure what you're on about fmp, but I think you didn't follow what Tobold's saying. If ideas behind computer games *couldn't* be copied, it would be very hard to produce most of the games that get made. The flipside is that most of the games coming out this year are pretty similar to WoW, which in turn borrowed a lot from all of its predecessors. WoW's tremendous success may have made investors and executives less receptive to ideas that break the basic mode. But Tobold certainly isn't saying it would be great if everything had to be a totally new genre, that really doesn't make any sense.
I think of Tobold as sort of an MMO design critic since he tries to test everything and discuss what works and doesn't work. If pointing out both upsides and downsides in the current state and trajectory of the industry is "whining" then you've basically invalidated all art, music, or movie criticism.
I think of Tobold as sort of an MMO design critic since he tries to test everything and discuss what works and doesn't work. If pointing out both upsides and downsides in the current state and trajectory of the industry is "whining" then you've basically invalidated all art, music, or movie criticism.
# posted by : 26/3/07 21:03
: 26/3/07 21:03
=/ I just wanted to know because when I meet him he did chat a lot and I like remember her mother's name (in fact I forgot but if he tells me I will remember for sure) just to know if is the same guy =]
Sorry for any inconvenience.=(
Sorry for any inconvenience.=(
# posted by : 26/3/07 23:44
: 26/3/07 23:44
=/ I just wanted to know because when I meet him he did chat a lot and I like remember her mother's name (in fact I forgot but if he tells me I will remember for sure) just to know if is the same guy =]
Sorry for any inconvenience.=(
Hehe, sorry if we misunderstood you, but asking for somebody's mother's name on the internet is sounding weird. That is typically an information you'd want to keep secret, as it's often used as the "secret question" for password recovery.
Anyway, I never told anyone my mother's name on the internet, so you must be looking for somebody else.
Sorry for any inconvenience.=(
Hehe, sorry if we misunderstood you, but asking for somebody's mother's name on the internet is sounding weird. That is typically an information you'd want to keep secret, as it's often used as the "secret question" for password recovery.
Anyway, I never told anyone my mother's name on the internet, so you must be looking for somebody else.
Phantasy Star Online (Dreamcast/Gamecube/PC) game had button clicks for combat attacks, and a very good game it was too.
Unfortunately it was very easy to hack into the game, so a lot of people quit because of all the PK ing by Gamesharkers.
Unfortunately it was very easy to hack into the game, so a lot of people quit because of all the PK ing by Gamesharkers.
# posted by : 27/3/07 11:37
: 27/3/07 11:37
People that think LotRO copied from WoW need to get a history lesson.
If anything, WoW's interface is a lock stock and barrel copy of Asheron's Call 2 (a Turbine game) with the addition of LUA.. so if anything, Turbine had the prior art on this one and it is blizzard that would be subject to a lawsuit.
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If anything, WoW's interface is a lock stock and barrel copy of Asheron's Call 2 (a Turbine game) with the addition of LUA.. so if anything, Turbine had the prior art on this one and it is blizzard that would be subject to a lawsuit.
# posted by : 2/4/08 18:56
: 2/4/08 18:56<< Home
