Home run! Now if you could only find a LOTRO quest database that sorts by level )
 

I hope there never is one... spoiler sites suck.
 

Then don't use it, and let the rest of us decide for ourselves.
 

I have to agree with the previous poster. Spoiler sites is the perfect example of something which is great for those that want them and can without question be ignored by those don't. Their existance certainly isn't affecting anyones playstyle that don't want to use them.
 

Ever been in a group exploring a dungeon for the first time only to have one guy say, "I've got a map and we can skip half this place to finish the quests and get the good loot!"

I have. It sucks. Spoiler sites affect everyone, not just the people who use them.
 

From my MMORPG experience... there is always someone in your group who was in beta or did that instance/quest a few days ago.

Closing all spoiler sites wouldn't help. Perhaps single player RPGs are more your cup of tea.
 

Thanks for the link!
another useful one is
http://mehq.net/

although I like your link a lot better.
 

Our experiences differ then. Only since late EQ and the Thottbot era have I seen spoiler site become so ubiquitous. There was a time when people used to hoard their secrets rather than rush to be the first one to publish them.

Single player RPGs are mostly linear crap that you have to be retarded in order to not know where to go, I like MMOs because they are more open for exploration, but I practically have to play them alone or only with people I know since everyone else seems to jump to spoiler sites if they exist.

Are most people really not interested in exploring a game? Are most people really only interested in numbers and loot and playing whack-a-mole? Honestly, I think most people who use spoiler sites only use them because they are there, and if they didn't exist they'd still play the game (probably enjoying it more and actually being more social to find out information).

WoW, as successful as it is, in my opinion is a failure because I have never been surrounded by so many people not talking to each other...
 

I use wowhead when doing quests, because honestly, as much as I like exploring, I dont want to spend an hour looking for where I am supposed to kill a certain mob, or find an NPC.

In an instance, I just go with the group and finish the place. If an area can be skipped, because only trash mobs, or whatever, I'd rather skip it then possibly wipe just to kill some trash.

All I have to say is, if I was supposed to find the NPC in Winterspring to finish the last 2 parts of the Ony attunement quest without asking someone, or looking it up on an info site, I'd still probably be looking.
 

I usually try all quests on my own, and then if I can't find the target, I look it up on a spoiler site. The alternative would be to ask in chat, and become the millionth player asking for the location of Mankrik's wife, or in the case of LotRO asking for the shrew burrows.

Face it, not all quest descriptions are created equal. Some are simply not sufficient to find your target. I still remember one in EQ2 asking me to find a dwarf "in Antonica", and that was all the information you got. Antonica being a huge zone, that is simply impossible except by pure chance or asking others.
 

I have high hopes for lotro-wiki but the database isn't very full yet. http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

I know that when spoiler sites do grow I will probably use them too much so I'm enjoying this honeymoon period where I have to find things out for myself.

Looking up co-ordinates on WOW was one of the most immersion destroying experiences of the whole game foe me and yet it was so easy I just did it anyway.
 

Darnit Tobold quit posting cool information about Lotro, this map makes me want to go try it! :)

That is a very nice map!
 

I suppose my real beef with spoiler sites is that they have no style or sense of the game itself. Its just an info dump. I'd love to be able to see tiered sites where you go to the quest, click the "Give me a hint" button and it will give you a better quest description that may better lead you to the answer, click it again and you get more detail, click it a third time and get a full spoiler. But that would take effort, and since most spoiler sites eventually become ad clicking revenue generators, simple info dumps draw the most page views and click throughs...
 

Might I suggest that real problem is actually with the Quest Desc. writers who sometimes fail to include enough information in the Quest Log.

WoW has it's fair share of "Find the Dwarf in Antonica" quest descriptions. "Lost in Battle" being one of them. While there are Quillboars in The Barrens, there are none in the vicinity of Mankrik's wife's body. "Razzeric's Tweaking" is another quest that expects you to search every square inch of a zone and retrieve the Seaforium Booster from the Zeppelin that "crashed in Dustwallow Marsh".

And face it, how many times do you ask for help with a quest, location of a mob, etc, only to be told "Lrn2Thotbott".
 

Isn't player interaction the point of an MMO?

If I'm in an instance with four other people who've never been there before, is it better for me to "spoil" it, or to let the party wipe?
Should everyone in chat ignore the guy who can't find Mankirk's wife, or can't figure out how to get a Deadly Blunderbuss?

I learned a long time ago that WoW is waaaaay too big to completely figure out without help.

I personally tend to use the spoiler sites for assistance, or ask questions "in game", only when I'm thoroughly stumped.
For me, that allows me to enjoy the game, yet not ever get "stuck".

And as Tobold blogged a while back, in raid dungeons it is probably better to "do your homework" than to be the one who causes a wipe by your ignorance. Actually, for my time and effort, I like to research instances in advance because I simply don't have the time or repair money to wipe in an instance over and over again while figuring out a boss -- and it's likely that after two or three wipes a PUG will lose someone or break up entirely.

Doeg
 

I was just mentioning to someone, you don't see people putting this level of effort into games anymore. Usually it's just a screenshot of the in-game map, not something nice like this. I guess LOTR just brings it out in people. Like all the people RPing that don't in other games, etc.

I am making a special effort in LOTRO not to look up information. Some of the descriptions and finding npcs is annoying though and I do look that up if I have trouble. But it's the perfect world to just explore. I tried to upgrade my videocard over the weekend and gave up, I think I am going to buy a new computer, just to play this game! :) I am glad that, unlike some games, I can play this on my 3 year old computer, but it just makes me want to experience it in the fullest.
 

Oh dear gawd thank you for that map...
 

My prays were answered. A map to that stinking forest. Thank you very much!
 

This map changed my life for the better!
 

I like exploration too, but Old Forest is retarded. I didn't grow up in Bree. My dude is from Ered Luin. I don't look up maps for everything. Just when it becomes a bitch. I've been through the Old Forest a couple times now and I have the hardest time navigating my way through.

So let's just say my dude was smart and made a rough map of his journey those other times through. Ok? Is that so bad?

You extreme purists are kinda dorky. You shouldn't be allowed to bring a map on your next road trip. That would be cheating at life, which is much worse than cheating at video games.