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Thursday, April 19, 2007
Sensible people struck down by RMT allergy
There are many bloggers in the MMO blogosphere, many of which I respect very much. But something is very wrong if in a current blogosphere debate the only reasonable comment is written by John Smedley, president of SOE. The issue is that SOE hired a new guy named Dave Christensen. And the guy worked for IGE in the past, which is the worlds biggest gold-selling company. So now Scott Jennings, Heartless, and Michael Zenke, among others, are all proclaiming that this is the end of the world. No, the new guy isn't supposed to introduce gold selling into all of SOE's games (they already have that in EQ2), he'll just try to sell SOE games in Asia. His only "crime" is to have worked for a gold-selling company before. In the opinion of my peers that apparently totally disqualifies him from ever being hired by any game company. And SOE is supposedly causing the end of civilization by hiring such a pariah. What a hogwash! Apparently these otherwise sensible blogger are so overcome by their RMT allergy that their brains switched off.
Michael Zenke at least posted a clarification, with excerpts from a letter from John Smedley, stating some very reasonable things: 1) He left IGE. Isn’t that a good thing? 2) We put it in the press release precisely to avoid anyone else thinking we’re trying to hide a part of his background. I certainly wouldn’t want anyone to think we put that in there as an advertisement for why we hired him. Believe me IGE has image issues worldwide, not just in the US.
Real-money trade (RMT), the selling of virtual currency for real dollars, is a highly complex problem, which has been around for many years. And one reason why we aren't any closer to a solution is that everybody insists that the problem is *caused* by gold-sellers. Everybody pretends that we have a system of perfect game designers and perfect players, into which the evil gold-selling criminals invade to destroy the lives of the innocent. The truth couldn't be further away from that. Game developers design bad game systems, where advancement doesn't depend on your skills, but on the time you spend in the game. And where advancement and time can be tranferred to a certain extent from one player to another via gold. And we have not-so-innocent players who decide to cheat by buying this advancement. The gold-sellers just exploit the existing weaknesses of the game systems, and of the players. Painting gold-sellers as the only evil guys in this story is simplistic and not helpful at all.
IGE is not a criminal organization. The exact legal status of RMT is unresolved, because game companies don't feel confident enough in their legal position to actually take IGE to court. And the worst you can accuse them of is breaking the contract represented by the terms of service and end-user license agreement. If you ever let your little brother or girlfriend play on your account, you committed exactly the same crime. It is understandable that game companies don't like it, but it's hardly the crime of the century. Somebody who worked for IGE doesn't deserve to become a pariah because of that. Game companies opposed to RMT might even *want* to hire people from IGE, to gain better insight in how RMT works, and how the game company could change their games to prevent it.
What do you think made the CEO of IGE more happy: SOE mentioning IGE in a press release, or Blizzard introducing epic flying mounts costing over 5,000 gold pieces? For once SOE isn't the evil company in this story.
- posted by Tobold @ 4:31 PM Permanent Link
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If Blizz wanted to cut the gold sellers throats, blizz could offer their service. Blizz could "sell" gold to it's own in-game subscribers which would eliminate gold farming and a vast majority of the hackers.
SOE was right to hire him. I don't know what other ideas he can come up with to curb gold farming but he would probably have a better idea than anyone else.
SOE was right to hire him. I don't know what other ideas he can come up with to curb gold farming but he would probably have a better idea than anyone else.
# posted by 
: 19/4/07 17:24
: 19/4/07 17:24
When Sony hired the ShowEQ guy, the product actually got more secure and added features. (yes, I know ShowEQ isn't quite teh same thing, but it was source of all evil at that time in EQ's life)
It doesn't have to be all bad.
It doesn't have to be all bad.
# posted by : 19/4/07 17:47
: 19/4/07 17:47
I don't think the idea of Blizzard selling their own gold (similiar to the Sony Station Exchange) would have the desired effect in the long run. Right now, there is some legal ambiguity around the issue of RMT. If Blizzard advocated the practice by adopting it them-selves, it opens the door to a different discussion around economic control, monopolies within an isolated market, etc. Tobold's right: in order to fix the problem, the game design needs to be improved. His example of the epic mount is perfect, would couldn't it have been a faction/token thing? Makes little sense.
# posted by : 19/4/07 18:37
: 19/4/07 18:37
Tobold, I read Cuppycake's take on this a few days ago, and I must say, she kept a very level head about it when others did not. You can find her response here :
http://www.cuppycake.org/?p=51
http://www.cuppycake.org/?p=51
# posted by : 19/4/07 18:40
: 19/4/07 18:40
Agreed, Tobold. People get bent out of shape over the silliest things.
I also agree that Blizzard doing things like creating highly desirable items with an obscenely high cost does far more to promote the RMT than anything else.
The epic flying mounts should be an upgrade at the end of a long epic questline. That's hardly a handout, but would allow far more people a chance to do it, especially since quests can be done cooperatively, while grinding for gold is done competitively.
I also agree that Blizzard doing things like creating highly desirable items with an obscenely high cost does far more to promote the RMT than anything else.
The epic flying mounts should be an upgrade at the end of a long epic questline. That's hardly a handout, but would allow far more people a chance to do it, especially since quests can be done cooperatively, while grinding for gold is done competitively.
# posted by : 19/4/07 18:45
: 19/4/07 18:45
@ Kurlus
....god no! The answer isn't for blizzard or any company to sell items or gold to its own players. Unless its the type of game that has no subscription fee and the game is paid for by people who buy the items or gold. If you want to eliminate RMT you need to attack the gold sellers and you need to attack them hard.
Attack the gold sellers? Why they aren't the problem! Tobold makes a good point, gold sellers are only fulfilling the demand that comes from the players. I don't see gold selling as evil, but I hate gold farmers. Drug dealers are only fulfilling the demand of the junkie. Nobody likes them either...except druggies. The problem with both gold and drugs is not that either one effects just the person who buys/uses them. It effects the people around you. Giving Wow players an advantage in professions and gear, but more importantly having stupid farmers steal your kills and ore. Drugs ruin the familys around the user...as well as the health of the user..... So even though I personally don't find gold sellers evil...thats why most people do.
You can put the junkie in jail, you can ban the gold buyer....but as soon as they get out/buy another account..they are gonna come looking for their fix. Thats why you need to hit the seller, and hard. If anyone looked at the prices of gold in Wow they would of noticed a change sometime around a year ago. Gold was a lot cheeper. I think 1000g ran about $80. Now a days 1000g is $200 and over...even though TBC should have brought more gold to farmers and thus reduced its price. The reason for the increase in price is obviously due to blizzard banning mass amounts of accounts. All is good for blizzard, they farmer just buys another account, cha-ching. To hit the gold farmers hard...blizzard just has to reduce the price of things like epic mounts, repairs, etc..... I don't have an epic mount, and I never will because I can't grind money all day...its boring. I'd much rather buy an epic mount...but with 1000g for $200...thats $1000 dollars for a mount, I'm not spending a weeks pay on a fantasy item.
....god no! The answer isn't for blizzard or any company to sell items or gold to its own players. Unless its the type of game that has no subscription fee and the game is paid for by people who buy the items or gold. If you want to eliminate RMT you need to attack the gold sellers and you need to attack them hard.
Attack the gold sellers? Why they aren't the problem! Tobold makes a good point, gold sellers are only fulfilling the demand that comes from the players. I don't see gold selling as evil, but I hate gold farmers. Drug dealers are only fulfilling the demand of the junkie. Nobody likes them either...except druggies. The problem with both gold and drugs is not that either one effects just the person who buys/uses them. It effects the people around you. Giving Wow players an advantage in professions and gear, but more importantly having stupid farmers steal your kills and ore. Drugs ruin the familys around the user...as well as the health of the user..... So even though I personally don't find gold sellers evil...thats why most people do.
You can put the junkie in jail, you can ban the gold buyer....but as soon as they get out/buy another account..they are gonna come looking for their fix. Thats why you need to hit the seller, and hard. If anyone looked at the prices of gold in Wow they would of noticed a change sometime around a year ago. Gold was a lot cheeper. I think 1000g ran about $80. Now a days 1000g is $200 and over...even though TBC should have brought more gold to farmers and thus reduced its price. The reason for the increase in price is obviously due to blizzard banning mass amounts of accounts. All is good for blizzard, they farmer just buys another account, cha-ching. To hit the gold farmers hard...blizzard just has to reduce the price of things like epic mounts, repairs, etc..... I don't have an epic mount, and I never will because I can't grind money all day...its boring. I'd much rather buy an epic mount...but with 1000g for $200...thats $1000 dollars for a mount, I'm not spending a weeks pay on a fantasy item.
No one is proclaiming the end of the world. We are just stating the fact. We will not support games or companies that support RMT. It is really that simple.
The hiring is highly suspect in nature. He freelanced for SOE, before they CREATED a position for him. You don't just create a position for a potentially controversial hire.
He was not just a simple IGE employee, he was a major component in their foreign relations, where the MAJORITY of their unethical and questionable business practices originate.
Combine this with the Station Exchange and SOE's willingness to generate revenue via non-subscription models and you have a quagmire.
I've made a blogging existence off of heeding the little "red flags" I've come across the MMORPG market.
And until the market PROVES me differently, stinky situations are stinky situations.
The hiring is highly suspect in nature. He freelanced for SOE, before they CREATED a position for him. You don't just create a position for a potentially controversial hire.
He was not just a simple IGE employee, he was a major component in their foreign relations, where the MAJORITY of their unethical and questionable business practices originate.
Combine this with the Station Exchange and SOE's willingness to generate revenue via non-subscription models and you have a quagmire.
I've made a blogging existence off of heeding the little "red flags" I've come across the MMORPG market.
And until the market PROVES me differently, stinky situations are stinky situations.
What tripe. RMTs are a fact of life. Purists who boycott a game because of this are not going to be missed. Someone who has a life and the financial means to buy that gold for a mount or whatever disturbs me far less than all the sabre-rattling from these players who rail at the cheating going on by people who want to you their real life advantage to advance in a game.
The fact that the gold sellers can command the kind of money mentioned above just goes to show that there is a market for it. If Blizzard or any of the other companies really wanted to get rid of it (RMT), they could do it. They just don't want to cripple the game system to do so. The fact that they are making money off these farming companies every time a ban results in more account sales says otherwise.
Until then, I proffer the phrase created by the under-employed, professional player: QQ more.
The fact that the gold sellers can command the kind of money mentioned above just goes to show that there is a market for it. If Blizzard or any of the other companies really wanted to get rid of it (RMT), they could do it. They just don't want to cripple the game system to do so. The fact that they are making money off these farming companies every time a ban results in more account sales says otherwise.
Until then, I proffer the phrase created by the under-employed, professional player: QQ more.
# posted by : 19/4/07 19:45
: 19/4/07 19:45
Would anyone have a problem if Turbine or Blizzard bought a majority interest in a gold-selling company?
I don't believe that anyone has mentioned the possible conflict of interest here.
ISTM that this smells like the NFL or NBA hiring a prominent gambling bookmaker.
A person like that in a game company may work to keep the game economy one in which gold sales are seen as necessary to progress. After all, the game company will keep their profits -- and so will the gold sellers. Sweet deal for them to work together -- a real profit growth area.
No, I really don't want my game company to having such associations.
Doeg
I don't believe that anyone has mentioned the possible conflict of interest here.
ISTM that this smells like the NFL or NBA hiring a prominent gambling bookmaker.
A person like that in a game company may work to keep the game economy one in which gold sales are seen as necessary to progress. After all, the game company will keep their profits -- and so will the gold sellers. Sweet deal for them to work together -- a real profit growth area.
No, I really don't want my game company to having such associations.
Doeg
# posted by : 19/4/07 20:03
: 19/4/07 20:03
"In the opinion of my peers that apparently totally disqualifies him from ever being hired by any game company."
It should. IGE is scum that I really wouldn't consider as a legitamate company, they made millions with use of spam/scam/exploit. It's part of the scum of the internet and I would compare them with companies that make profit off 3rd world countries by selling weapons to support their civil wars.
A decent company shouldn't want to be associated by something like IGE.
If Blizzard would pull something off like this I would be - very - tempted to end my subscription directly. Have your own opinion about goldselling and these kind of things, but I try to not support these things.
It should. IGE is scum that I really wouldn't consider as a legitamate company, they made millions with use of spam/scam/exploit. It's part of the scum of the internet and I would compare them with companies that make profit off 3rd world countries by selling weapons to support their civil wars.
A decent company shouldn't want to be associated by something like IGE.
If Blizzard would pull something off like this I would be - very - tempted to end my subscription directly. Have your own opinion about goldselling and these kind of things, but I try to not support these things.
# posted by : 19/4/07 20:46
: 19/4/07 20:46
No, not all of us and only a couple of bloggers jumped the gun and posted with their emotions rather than rationalizing first.
I wrote my take on SOE/Christenen a week ago. Although, some might disagree if I was level headed or not. I doubt you have me on your rss feed, (time is money, friend!) so for anyone wanting to flame me or kill a few minutes feel free to visit.
http://plaguelands.com/2007/04/12/soes-wrecking-helm/
I wrote my take on SOE/Christenen a week ago. Although, some might disagree if I was level headed or not. I doubt you have me on your rss feed, (time is money, friend!) so for anyone wanting to flame me or kill a few minutes feel free to visit.
http://plaguelands.com/2007/04/12/soes-wrecking-helm/
# posted by : 19/4/07 21:48
: 19/4/07 21:48
Im still convinced the divide comes from a more root cause. The gold selling isnt the arguement really. The arguement is between two types of players. There are the type of people that play the game to be better than someone else and to prove that they are better than someone else. There are also the type of people that play the game to have fun with their friends. The two sides can bleed together but Ive always found those two fundamental camps.
If your trying to prove that your better than everyone else, those that can buy success negatively impact you.
If your trying to have fun with your friends, those that buy success have absolutely no impact on you.
If RMT is a really attractive solution to a player, its a fault of game design IMO.
If your trying to prove that your better than everyone else, those that can buy success negatively impact you.
If your trying to have fun with your friends, those that buy success have absolutely no impact on you.
If RMT is a really attractive solution to a player, its a fault of game design IMO.
# posted by : 19/4/07 22:04
: 19/4/07 22:04
I really can't understand how you can brand a man for having worked at a company you don't like. With SOE now being considered the next "evil empire", does that mean nobody should ever hire again any of the people that worked for SOE, Brad McQuaid and Raph Koster included?
If I don't like what *your* company does, should I raise a cry whenever somebody is trying to hire you? Really, it's one thing to dislike RMT, but a completely other thing to throw dirt at anyone who ever came close to it.
If I don't like what *your* company does, should I raise a cry whenever somebody is trying to hire you? Really, it's one thing to dislike RMT, but a completely other thing to throw dirt at anyone who ever came close to it.
I liken Tobold's intrepretation of the issue to something previously mentioned... drugs.
The theory in America goes "if we get rid of the dealers, we will get rid of drugs..."
When it really should be (though it is impossible) "if we get rid of the users, we will get rid of the drugs..."
If you get rid of the need, you will get rid of the problem.
If you never get rid of the need/desire/craving etc., there will always be someone who will meet that need.
IGE performs a service. I don't use the service. I am jealous of those who use the service. Those that aren't afraid to get banned, and those who can afford to use RL money on Azeroth.
If the "want" for that service was not there, the service would not exist.
All this adds up to just my opinion, but I do not get mad at these companies. Or, I should say, solely at these companies... it is the user as well.
If litigation went "hard" after these companies, like some desire, then other companies will simply emerge elsewhere.
---Rotz
The theory in America goes "if we get rid of the dealers, we will get rid of drugs..."
When it really should be (though it is impossible) "if we get rid of the users, we will get rid of the drugs..."
If you get rid of the need, you will get rid of the problem.
If you never get rid of the need/desire/craving etc., there will always be someone who will meet that need.
IGE performs a service. I don't use the service. I am jealous of those who use the service. Those that aren't afraid to get banned, and those who can afford to use RL money on Azeroth.
If the "want" for that service was not there, the service would not exist.
All this adds up to just my opinion, but I do not get mad at these companies. Or, I should say, solely at these companies... it is the user as well.
If litigation went "hard" after these companies, like some desire, then other companies will simply emerge elsewhere.
---Rotz
# posted by : 19/4/07 22:33
: 19/4/07 22:33
Tobold,
I'm not sure who you were directing your last response at - I'll bite because I got a good guffaw thinking that I wouldn't hire Brad, not because he worked at SOE, but for other reasons.
First and foremost, I have no problem with Christensen, he is well qualified and good fit for SOE's future roadmap, one that I don't agree with.
On the other hand, you have someone well educated in the game industry who probably understood the company they were working at was more or less shunning the developers that were against IGE selling items and gold in their game.
While, not legally criminal, the developers set the rules whether or not they want their IP sold and traded, not IGE or some armchair laywers debating virtual property rights. Thus, I can easily understand why a game company wouldn't or someone else's opinion on why they shouldn't hire someone who worked at IGE for ethical reasons alone. That may seem wrong, and in some ways it is.
I'm not sure who you were directing your last response at - I'll bite because I got a good guffaw thinking that I wouldn't hire Brad, not because he worked at SOE, but for other reasons.
First and foremost, I have no problem with Christensen, he is well qualified and good fit for SOE's future roadmap, one that I don't agree with.
On the other hand, you have someone well educated in the game industry who probably understood the company they were working at was more or less shunning the developers that were against IGE selling items and gold in their game.
While, not legally criminal, the developers set the rules whether or not they want their IP sold and traded, not IGE or some armchair laywers debating virtual property rights. Thus, I can easily understand why a game company wouldn't or someone else's opinion on why they shouldn't hire someone who worked at IGE for ethical reasons alone. That may seem wrong, and in some ways it is.
# posted by : 19/4/07 22:52
: 19/4/07 22:52
"If I don't like what *your* company does, should I raise a cry whenever somebody is trying to hire you? Really, it's one thing to dislike RMT, but a completely other thing to throw dirt at anyone who ever came close to it."
Ah well, there's something I can agree on. I don't know all details, but from what I've understood this wasn't just some IGE employee, but it was one of the bosses in there.
Ah well, there's something I can agree on. I don't know all details, but from what I've understood this wasn't just some IGE employee, but it was one of the bosses in there.
# posted by : 20/4/07 00:01
: 20/4/07 00:01
Oh, it definitely smells, and there's good reason to be concerned. It's not as if SOE isn't profiting off gold farming, in EQ2. How can SOE claim to crack down on an interprise, which they themselves are profiting from. In SOE games, gold farming is forbidden in name only.
Like you, I've been enjoying the LOTRO beta, and having a fantastic time playing my little Hobbit. In game, yesterday, I was doing some role playing, listening to some cool player made music, and having a good time getting to know my new guildmates, when I made the mistake of opening my mailbox. Inside was a letter from a gold farmer. The illusion of being in a living breathing world was instantly shattered. What was a world became simply a game. What was magical became simply mechanical. The illusion was lost. I was reminded that not every person I meet in game is there to roleplay or adventure, but that many - and the number will grow - are simply human beings grimly pounding away on keyboards, till their shift is over, and they can go home. I was disgusted, and camped out.
It's great that gold farming isn't an issue with you, but it is an issue with me, and this hiring disgust me, but SOE has disgusted me for years, so this is just new disgust thrown on top of old disgust.
Like you, I've been enjoying the LOTRO beta, and having a fantastic time playing my little Hobbit. In game, yesterday, I was doing some role playing, listening to some cool player made music, and having a good time getting to know my new guildmates, when I made the mistake of opening my mailbox. Inside was a letter from a gold farmer. The illusion of being in a living breathing world was instantly shattered. What was a world became simply a game. What was magical became simply mechanical. The illusion was lost. I was reminded that not every person I meet in game is there to roleplay or adventure, but that many - and the number will grow - are simply human beings grimly pounding away on keyboards, till their shift is over, and they can go home. I was disgusted, and camped out.
It's great that gold farming isn't an issue with you, but it is an issue with me, and this hiring disgust me, but SOE has disgusted me for years, so this is just new disgust thrown on top of old disgust.
# posted by : 20/4/07 00:33
: 20/4/07 00:33
Internet security companies hire highly-skilled hackers to help find vulnerabilities in their software. Maybe SOE thinks they need help in changing their game design to make life harder for the gold farmers.
Or...
Lots of MMORPG companies are looking for alternative revenue streams. I know SOE is very interested in some of the subscription models in in Asia. (ie. basic subscription/client is free and extra charges for more bells and whistles). One of the reasons I won't play an SOE game anymore is the blatant "squeeze every nickel you can out of the addicted subscriber" attitude that they have developed over the last 5 years. Clearly, many MMORPG players are willing to pay more than the box/subscription fee. Gold farmers have gotten ahead of the gaming companies, but its only a matter of time till the gaming companies take over those sources of revenue that the gold-farmers currently are taking advantage of.
Zigabob
Or...
Lots of MMORPG companies are looking for alternative revenue streams. I know SOE is very interested in some of the subscription models in in Asia. (ie. basic subscription/client is free and extra charges for more bells and whistles). One of the reasons I won't play an SOE game anymore is the blatant "squeeze every nickel you can out of the addicted subscriber" attitude that they have developed over the last 5 years. Clearly, many MMORPG players are willing to pay more than the box/subscription fee. Gold farmers have gotten ahead of the gaming companies, but its only a matter of time till the gaming companies take over those sources of revenue that the gold-farmers currently are taking advantage of.
Zigabob
# posted by : 20/4/07 01:32
: 20/4/07 01:32
Anon, you need to learn the difference between hackers and crackers. Companies DO NOT hire crackers, ever. Hackers on the other hand, often get a job because of their skills. Hackers do not break into networks with malicious intent. They are skilled professionals that expose networking weaknesses for a variety of ethical reasons. Hence the coined term; ethical hacking. These are often the people you see being hired on at major companies.
A cracker, by definition, is a hacker gone to the dark side. They hack to cause problems. They have malicious intent. I dare you to find a convicted cracker that has been hired on at a top company. It is rare, and has ended more than once in disaster.
The comparison to Raph Koster is way off the mark. Raph Koster has a well documented and inspirational background, before, during, and after SOE. Christensen, while we slowly learn more about him, has a huge RED FLAG in his history. He has helped undermine the industry we are so fucking passionate about. I will not let my strings be pulled. I will not support SOE.
And all this bullshit about "jumping the gun" and posting "your gut reaction" is just that; bullshit. Some people know where they stand, and their gut reaction comes from a solid belief. Some people wait until the sides form, and then try to pick the winning horse. I'm not pointing fingers here, but it is what it is. I stick with my initial reaction, but don't for a second think I wasn't level headed about it the whole way.
A cracker, by definition, is a hacker gone to the dark side. They hack to cause problems. They have malicious intent. I dare you to find a convicted cracker that has been hired on at a top company. It is rare, and has ended more than once in disaster.
The comparison to Raph Koster is way off the mark. Raph Koster has a well documented and inspirational background, before, during, and after SOE. Christensen, while we slowly learn more about him, has a huge RED FLAG in his history. He has helped undermine the industry we are so fucking passionate about. I will not let my strings be pulled. I will not support SOE.
And all this bullshit about "jumping the gun" and posting "your gut reaction" is just that; bullshit. Some people know where they stand, and their gut reaction comes from a solid belief. Some people wait until the sides form, and then try to pick the winning horse. I'm not pointing fingers here, but it is what it is. I stick with my initial reaction, but don't for a second think I wasn't level headed about it the whole way.
Look, you have the right to dislike RMT. You can refuse to play games that have officially sanctioned RMT. If you want you can even try to organize a boycott of those games.
But SOE already has officially sanctioned RMT with their Station Exchange. So why would hiring somebody who knows about RMT be such a big issue? I find "boycott company B, because they hired somebody from company A" to be a completely over the top response.
Game companies exist to make money. I would prefer games in which RMT was impossible, because the game design wouldn't allow to transfer gold, or because playing it was so much fun that noboby wanted to skip ahead. But as it is, none of the game companies is better than the others. SOE's approach to make RMT official and thus protect their customers from scammers is at least as valid as Blizzard hypocritical method of banning them every couple of months, knowing bloody well that they'll all come back, each having to buy a new WoW box and new account. Blizzard is effectively taxing the gold farmers, which isn't any nicer than what SOE does.
But SOE already has officially sanctioned RMT with their Station Exchange. So why would hiring somebody who knows about RMT be such a big issue? I find "boycott company B, because they hired somebody from company A" to be a completely over the top response.
Game companies exist to make money. I would prefer games in which RMT was impossible, because the game design wouldn't allow to transfer gold, or because playing it was so much fun that noboby wanted to skip ahead. But as it is, none of the game companies is better than the others. SOE's approach to make RMT official and thus protect their customers from scammers is at least as valid as Blizzard hypocritical method of banning them every couple of months, knowing bloody well that they'll all come back, each having to buy a new WoW box and new account. Blizzard is effectively taxing the gold farmers, which isn't any nicer than what SOE does.
I'd never hire Brad McQuaid, but that's because he makes shitty games, not because he works specifically for SOE.
LOL I knew my comment would get some action :)
All seriousness however, I don't believe in "cheating" and that's what I view buying gold to be. If you have to cheat in a game, then there's something wrong with you.
That said, it seems that most people complain, not of people buying gold, but of the gold farmers camping areas which make it difficult for players to complete in-game objectives. So if Blizz were to sell gold themselves they would eliminate the gold farmers and as such eliminate the in-game problems that people have with them. Right now, even if a gold farmer gets banned, it is still profitable for them to buy a new account and keep farming. If Blizz sold gold and still banned farmers, thereby eliminating the competition, it would no longer be profitable for the farmer and the farming would stop. Then maybe Blizz could use the extra cash to hire more customer service reps which might drastically improve everyones in-game experience.
All seriousness however, I don't believe in "cheating" and that's what I view buying gold to be. If you have to cheat in a game, then there's something wrong with you.
That said, it seems that most people complain, not of people buying gold, but of the gold farmers camping areas which make it difficult for players to complete in-game objectives. So if Blizz were to sell gold themselves they would eliminate the gold farmers and as such eliminate the in-game problems that people have with them. Right now, even if a gold farmer gets banned, it is still profitable for them to buy a new account and keep farming. If Blizz sold gold and still banned farmers, thereby eliminating the competition, it would no longer be profitable for the farmer and the farming would stop. Then maybe Blizz could use the extra cash to hire more customer service reps which might drastically improve everyones in-game experience.
# posted by : 20/4/07 12:52
: 20/4/07 12:52
That is the point Tobold. SOE already has RMT servers, so they can't sit here and tell me that this hire didn't involve potential future RMT expansion. It shows me, as a gamer, that SOE doesn't give a damn about me as a player.
What you call "gold farmer tax", I call the right thing to do. It is more than obvious that Blizzard's approach is at least having an effect on the gold farmers.
I also don't see how SOE is protecting anyone. They are still just taking a cut of the profits. They aren't protecting anyone. The only thing that has changed, is that SOE is now RESPONSIBLE for the scammers. If you get scammed in WoW, lesson learned... you shouldn't of been doing it in the first place. Blizzard holds no responsibility to hold your hand.
SOE is a business. I understand the need to make money first, game seconds. It just won't be my money. It's not a boycott. It is a vote, my vote with my wallet. The only vote that counts.
What you call "gold farmer tax", I call the right thing to do. It is more than obvious that Blizzard's approach is at least having an effect on the gold farmers.
I also don't see how SOE is protecting anyone. They are still just taking a cut of the profits. They aren't protecting anyone. The only thing that has changed, is that SOE is now RESPONSIBLE for the scammers. If you get scammed in WoW, lesson learned... you shouldn't of been doing it in the first place. Blizzard holds no responsibility to hold your hand.
SOE is a business. I understand the need to make money first, game seconds. It just won't be my money. It's not a boycott. It is a vote, my vote with my wallet. The only vote that counts.
What you call "gold farmer tax", I call the right thing to do. It is more than obvious that Blizzard's approach is at least having an effect on the gold farmers.
I disagree with your "obvious effect". The only effect the gold farmer tax has is that it reduces supply, thus enabling the gold farmers to charge more dollars for the same amount of gold. In the end the gold farmer is still earning the same amount of dollars, so he doesn't care. And there is absolutely no evidence to that this policy has in any way reduced the number of gold farmers in WoW, in fact there are more and more of them every month.
It is very, very easy to design a MMORPG economy in which RMT is simply not technically possible. You just need to be willing to make some compromises in the freedom of players to do asymmetric trades. Or you need to design a game in which gold farming isn't necessary, because there are no 5,000-gold mounts. Blizzard is aiding and abetting gold farmers with their game design, and then profiting from them financially by forcing them to buy new accounts. That is in no way less evil than what SOE does.
And running a smear campaign on somebody because he helped people to cheat in a video game is way out of line. I can only laugh when you and Lum the Mad say that the guy "helped to undermine the industry". Especially Lum, who got his current job *because* he ran a website undermining the industry should be a little more understanding.
I disagree with your "obvious effect". The only effect the gold farmer tax has is that it reduces supply, thus enabling the gold farmers to charge more dollars for the same amount of gold. In the end the gold farmer is still earning the same amount of dollars, so he doesn't care. And there is absolutely no evidence to that this policy has in any way reduced the number of gold farmers in WoW, in fact there are more and more of them every month.
It is very, very easy to design a MMORPG economy in which RMT is simply not technically possible. You just need to be willing to make some compromises in the freedom of players to do asymmetric trades. Or you need to design a game in which gold farming isn't necessary, because there are no 5,000-gold mounts. Blizzard is aiding and abetting gold farmers with their game design, and then profiting from them financially by forcing them to buy new accounts. That is in no way less evil than what SOE does.
And running a smear campaign on somebody because he helped people to cheat in a video game is way out of line. I can only laugh when you and Lum the Mad say that the guy "helped to undermine the industry". Especially Lum, who got his current job *because* he ran a website undermining the industry should be a little more understanding.
I'm sorry but IGE did a lot to undermine the MMO industry by attaching themselves to games they didn't own to make a profit. Much like pirates who copy other people's music, movies, and software and then charge for them. I'm a firm believer in fair use but I think professional gold farming violates this.
I believe the negative outbursts about SOE's recent hire is because Dave was responsible for dealing with the sweatshop labor that IGE mostly used for their source of gold. IGE took the steps of using countries that scoffed at copyright law and made sure none of their "real" employees actually broke a game's EULA.
This is a good legal tactic and has basically made them able to make money while having almost no cost since the developers are the ones responsible for fixing the negative effects of gold farming on a game. Since developers are usually busy working on creating new content they usually can only take the easy way out by adding more moneysinks to prevent devaluation.
The position that Dave Christensen held means he was deeply involved in this strategy and frankly has no problem bleeding a game dry until it dies. This philosophy fits with some of SOE's ideals but in general will piss off those whose entertainment and jobs were hurt by IGE.
I believe the negative outbursts about SOE's recent hire is because Dave was responsible for dealing with the sweatshop labor that IGE mostly used for their source of gold. IGE took the steps of using countries that scoffed at copyright law and made sure none of their "real" employees actually broke a game's EULA.
This is a good legal tactic and has basically made them able to make money while having almost no cost since the developers are the ones responsible for fixing the negative effects of gold farming on a game. Since developers are usually busy working on creating new content they usually can only take the easy way out by adding more moneysinks to prevent devaluation.
The position that Dave Christensen held means he was deeply involved in this strategy and frankly has no problem bleeding a game dry until it dies. This philosophy fits with some of SOE's ideals but in general will piss off those whose entertainment and jobs were hurt by IGE.
"bleeding a game dry until it dies"?
What, like WoW, with over 8 MILLION subscribers? That's a lot of blood.
Can you give an example of people whose jobs were hurt? Just ONE example will do.
What, like WoW, with over 8 MILLION subscribers? That's a lot of blood.
Can you give an example of people whose jobs were hurt? Just ONE example will do.
# posted by : 20/4/07 19:39
: 20/4/07 19:39
Gold farmers speed up the process of currency devaluation which eventually prevents anyone new from picking up the game. New players find themself unable to interact with the player economy and thus are more likely to quit. Especially when vital items like ability and tradeskill components are inflated.
Probably most of the developers for FFXI and Everquest who were cut as the game grew less friendly to new players partially blame gold farmers. I know both of those games experienced huge negative effects on their economy from gold farming though admitly it was a few dupe bugs that created the most havoc.
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Probably most of the developers for FFXI and Everquest who were cut as the game grew less friendly to new players partially blame gold farmers. I know both of those games experienced huge negative effects on their economy from gold farming though admitly it was a few dupe bugs that created the most havoc.
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