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Wednesday, August 08, 2007
Deathknight thoughts
Besides lots of fluff and more-of-the-same, there is one real innovation in the announced Wrath of the Lich King second expansion for World of Warcraft: the first hero class, the deathknight. What was announced was that you first have to level one of your regular characters to 80, then do a quest comparable to the warlock epic mount quest, and with that quest you "unlock" the ability to create a new deathknight character. No, you don't lose your existing character, you simply gain the ability to make new deathknights of any race. And they don't start at level 1, but at some not yet defined higher level from 55 to 70. So you get to play through Northrend, and maybe Outlands too, again, but not through the old world. Deathknight will be tank / DPS hybrids, wearing plate armor, but no shields, and wielding either two-handed or two one-handed weapons. They will use a new "rune" mechanism, where you have a special sword-shaped bar into which you can fit 6 runes, or three different types. Abilities you use make those runes fade, and then they come back slowly. So if you put in 6 unholy runes, you can use only unholy abilities, but got lots of juice to do so. If you mix in some ice runes, you get a wider choice of abilities to use, but can use each ability less often.
Deathknights are going to be extremely popular. Hell, this is the first really new class after three-and-a-half years, even if WoW had introduced the Knights of the Fluffy Pink Bunny Order they would have been popular. The obvious danger is that if lets say deathknights start at level 60, a month after WotLK is released you'll see Hellfire Peninsula full of deathknights, with barely any other class around.
/shout Rampart group looking for more, please no more deathknights, we already got 3 of those.
Might be a good time to level a healer up from 60, you'll get lots of invites. Having over half of the population of Outlands consist of deathknights will feel extremely silly, and not play very well.
At some point the first enthusiasm will calm down, and deathknights will reach level 80 and mix with the rest of the population. And then what? Deathknights will probably make superb soloing characters, dealing good damage while having good survivability. But obviously they won't tank as well as a protection spec warrior. And they won't deal as much damage as a rogue. It's the old hybrid problem, if the hybrid is better than the pure classes in their fields, he would simply replace them. If the deathknight is as good a tank as the warrior, but deals more damage and soloes better, all the existing warriors would be screwed. Same if the deathknight dealt as much damage as the rogue, while being better armored, that would just kill the rogue class. The safe assumption is that the deathknight will be a typical hybrid, and not as good a tank as a warrior, and not as good a damage dealer as the rogue. And then, who is going to invite deathknights to a raid? Unless they have some special abilities needed to overcome special challenges, a tank/dps hybrid just won't be needed. Believe me, I tried to get raid spots as a fury warrior, and that wasn't easy. My guild took me back in the days of Molten Core, where raid groups still had some room for slack. But in a 10- or 20-man raid there is simply no room for a half-tank-half-damager.
My final thought on deathknights is about the available races. Rumor has it that you'll be able to make a deathknight of all existing races. People are already laughing about the idea of gnome deathknight, but actually that idea isn't fitting so badly into the lore. Gnomes do have warriors and warlocks, so an anti-paladin type warrior powered by the forces of darkness wouldn't feel so strange for that race. They might look funny, though. I'm actually more concerned about the lore of lets say nightelf or tauren deathknights. Races that don't have warlocks, because they are attuned to nature, and will have nothing to do with the forces of darkness. And suddenly they get deathknights? That will jar a bit with the lore fans.
I don't know how many hero classes Blizzard is planning. But I think it would have been better to plan for at least half a dozen, and introduce them in pairs, not one by one. WotLK really should contain a healer hero class beside the deathknight. It is not as if the game currently has too many healers and not enough damage dealers. A flood of deathknights is not going to improve that balance. Why not a dark druid as well, being able to heal by sucking life out of nature, and being able to transform into hideous monsters? At least then you could make groups full of deathknights and dark druids and have all the bases covered.
- posted by Tobold @ 8:37 AM Permanent Link
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I may have read it wrong, but I thought they said that there might be more than one Hero Class in the expansion. I've been on vacation, so I haven't been paying total attention.
Maybe it's not the cool effect intended by a "heroic class" but an alt I can start at a high enough level to make leveling quicker sounds to me like I'll have that farming alt after all. Not having a gathering profession has been hard so far but Death Knight seems to be the answer to that problem :)
# posted by 
: 8/8/07 10:38
: 8/8/07 10:38
Raids and Hybrids don't mix and they never will. Make no mistake, this new class is for casual players who feel increasingly alienated by WoW's obsessive focus on raiding.
It's a bone, much like the books in PoP; a feature that was cynically added simply to attract those players who wouldn't have bought the expansion under any other circumstances.
It's a bone, much like the books in PoP; a feature that was cynically added simply to attract those players who wouldn't have bought the expansion under any other circumstances.
# posted by : 8/8/07 11:26
: 8/8/07 11:26
I don't play melee characters, so I don't have much interest in Deathknights.
Yes, they will be more popular then Bloodelf Paladins, but are they really going to be just dps warriors in a new skin? What about talents? Same talents as dps warriors?
"Races that don't have warlocks, because they are attuned to nature, and will have nothing to do with the forces of darkness"
Er, except for the Forsaken. The Forsaken are allies of the Tauren? I just can't accept that. Birth - life - death is the cycle of life, so I don't see any room for 'rotting corpse with a soul' in the Tauren way of looking at things. If Tauren can be allied with one form of undead, why not another?
Tobold (and =##=), I think you are wrong; there is room for all classes, unless you happen to be hard-core raid guilds.
Our latest trip to Karazhan didn't contain a single Holy Priest or a Paladin, and yet we managed. The idea that you need to have a well-balanced party or you won't succeed is just not true.
Once people have geared up through normal/heroic and early stages of Karazhan, the rest of Kharazhan is very doable with all sorts of odd specs and party types.
Yes, they will be more popular then Bloodelf Paladins, but are they really going to be just dps warriors in a new skin? What about talents? Same talents as dps warriors?
"Races that don't have warlocks, because they are attuned to nature, and will have nothing to do with the forces of darkness"
Er, except for the Forsaken. The Forsaken are allies of the Tauren? I just can't accept that. Birth - life - death is the cycle of life, so I don't see any room for 'rotting corpse with a soul' in the Tauren way of looking at things. If Tauren can be allied with one form of undead, why not another?
Tobold (and =##=), I think you are wrong; there is room for all classes, unless you happen to be hard-core raid guilds.
Our latest trip to Karazhan didn't contain a single Holy Priest or a Paladin, and yet we managed. The idea that you need to have a well-balanced party or you won't succeed is just not true.
Once people have geared up through normal/heroic and early stages of Karazhan, the rest of Kharazhan is very doable with all sorts of odd specs and party types.
# posted by : 8/8/07 11:35
: 8/8/07 11:35
Raids and Hybrids don't mix and they never will.
That's not true in general. If WoW would copy right now from EQs encounter design, they would see perfectly working hybrids in great demand for raiding. All of the hybrids work there and they work cause their niches get served, rather than offered only 1 room where all classes want to fit in, the way WoW handles it.
There was a great writeup from one of EQs current raid designers. Great stuff. He underlined how important it is to give every class an important roll. For example EQs knights are very viable tanks, that can switch roles from tanks to DPS to support (kiter/healer). WoW is shooting itself in the foot right here, cause of the PvP side and the way it handels talents-gear-synergy. Imagine WoW's hybrids with every possible talent at the same time and one set of gear, that boost stats for every role. Those are working hybrids in the best possible way. Imagine paladins with 1400 healing, 10k manapools, 14k HPs and 500 DPS. Those hybrids could perform in any role in EQ. That's how it's done if you do not have to care for pvp balance.
That's not true in general. If WoW would copy right now from EQs encounter design, they would see perfectly working hybrids in great demand for raiding. All of the hybrids work there and they work cause their niches get served, rather than offered only 1 room where all classes want to fit in, the way WoW handles it.
There was a great writeup from one of EQs current raid designers. Great stuff. He underlined how important it is to give every class an important roll. For example EQs knights are very viable tanks, that can switch roles from tanks to DPS to support (kiter/healer). WoW is shooting itself in the foot right here, cause of the PvP side and the way it handels talents-gear-synergy. Imagine WoW's hybrids with every possible talent at the same time and one set of gear, that boost stats for every role. Those are working hybrids in the best possible way. Imagine paladins with 1400 healing, 10k manapools, 14k HPs and 500 DPS. Those hybrids could perform in any role in EQ. That's how it's done if you do not have to care for pvp balance.
# posted by : 8/8/07 12:47
: 8/8/07 12:47
Having only Death Knights and making them available to both sides makes the lore even more irrelevant, which is a shame.
# posted by : 8/8/07 12:57
: 8/8/07 12:57
@chrismue -- EQ1 also has 54 person raids, leaving quite a lot of room for specific classes to shine. You're right about the variety of EQ1 raids, though -- many of the Anguish and Demiplane raids require every class in order to succeed.
@Tobold -- if DKs are better tanks than Warriors, Warriors can just play their DKs. If DKs do more damage than rogues, rogues can just play their DKs. If they are better hybrids than paladins, paladins can just play their DKs. No problem! Everyone gets a DK!
I expect Blizz to announce more Hero classes before the expansion is released, though.
@Tobold -- if DKs are better tanks than Warriors, Warriors can just play their DKs. If DKs do more damage than rogues, rogues can just play their DKs. If they are better hybrids than paladins, paladins can just play their DKs. No problem! Everyone gets a DK!
I expect Blizz to announce more Hero classes before the expansion is released, though.
# posted by : 8/8/07 14:51
: 8/8/07 14:51
Gamestop says on their preorder page that "Official price and release date have NOT been announced by Blizzard. In this case, the price and release date were determined by the GameStop e-commerce staff, (comprised of overpowered warlocks), using a combination of 6 and 20-sided die."
The end-of-May date is via WoWInsider reporting something some Blizzard employee might or might not have said.
The end-of-May date is via WoWInsider reporting something some Blizzard employee might or might not have said.
I have to disagree whith the statement that hybrids can't get a raid spot...
I am in a semi-hardcore raiding guild (two bosses in The Eye, two in SSC), and we have raid spots for almost every single class/spec combination in our raids, in KZ and beyond.
The only one we do not use, are Retladins. This is because the retribution tree is obviously broken. Let Blizzard fix it and we will be more than ready to give them a raiding spot.
In our typical 25-men group you can, for instance, find 2 dps wars, one prot paladin, one (2) shadow priests, one elem chammy...
Blizzard made things quite right, maybe raid leaders are just not willing to try it out and search for the advantages of off specs or hybrids.
As for the dead night, wait and see...
I believe it will be easy to find a DK, as everyone will roll one, but extremely hard tu find a good DK, since it will require much reflexion about this "variable mana bar" thing.
Only the fact that you have to choose which "mana bar" you take along for tonight's raid, can give them their use in raids, as they can adapt (more or less respec) according to what bosses we are going to work on.
And i think good DKS will be extremely valuable to any raiding guild.
Boterham
PS : as usual, sry abour the spelling, since i am no native speaker.
I am in a semi-hardcore raiding guild (two bosses in The Eye, two in SSC), and we have raid spots for almost every single class/spec combination in our raids, in KZ and beyond.
The only one we do not use, are Retladins. This is because the retribution tree is obviously broken. Let Blizzard fix it and we will be more than ready to give them a raiding spot.
In our typical 25-men group you can, for instance, find 2 dps wars, one prot paladin, one (2) shadow priests, one elem chammy...
Blizzard made things quite right, maybe raid leaders are just not willing to try it out and search for the advantages of off specs or hybrids.
As for the dead night, wait and see...
I believe it will be easy to find a DK, as everyone will roll one, but extremely hard tu find a good DK, since it will require much reflexion about this "variable mana bar" thing.
Only the fact that you have to choose which "mana bar" you take along for tonight's raid, can give them their use in raids, as they can adapt (more or less respec) according to what bosses we are going to work on.
And i think good DKS will be extremely valuable to any raiding guild.
Boterham
PS : as usual, sry abour the spelling, since i am no native speaker.
# posted by : 8/8/07 15:47
: 8/8/07 15:47
Hybrid's are very valuable these days, and easily get raid spots (as mentioned above, excepting ret pallies and they are getting a theoretical buff/fix soon) as there is alot of synergy between various classes/specs that provide great boosts to raid dmg and/or healing/mana.
And fury warriors have been doing crazy damage since way before TBC even, if you couldn't get a raid spot, it wasn't because of the spec choice.
Deathknights sound interesting, hard to really speculate until we have a real clue as to the mechanics, and honestly there's always room for another class that can tank/off-tank and be capable of doing dps without a respec (hence feral druid viability currently).
The only issue I see is, WTB HEALER PLZ being even more constant, since I think most people simply don't find healing fun, or if they did, seem to have burnt out on doing it.
And fury warriors have been doing crazy damage since way before TBC even, if you couldn't get a raid spot, it wasn't because of the spec choice.
Deathknights sound interesting, hard to really speculate until we have a real clue as to the mechanics, and honestly there's always room for another class that can tank/off-tank and be capable of doing dps without a respec (hence feral druid viability currently).
The only issue I see is, WTB HEALER PLZ being even more constant, since I think most people simply don't find healing fun, or if they did, seem to have burnt out on doing it.
# posted by : 8/8/07 15:59
: 8/8/07 15:59
Hybrids not fitting into a raid...is quite frankly the most ignorant and uninformed comment I have seen regarding WOW as of late.
That is simply not true, and you know it. Perhaps you are a mage or warrior or priest just trying to mark your territory...but you really need to get over it. You make this game more difficult for yourself and for others, not doing so.
That is simply not true, and you know it. Perhaps you are a mage or warrior or priest just trying to mark your territory...but you really need to get over it. You make this game more difficult for yourself and for others, not doing so.
I find the concept of playable death knights appalling. I mean, I just don't understand how death knights could be accepted into the Horde or especially the Alliance. Arthas as a death knight killed Uther, killed the King of Lordaeron, killed Sylvanas and turned her into a banshee, destroyed Quel'thalas, etc. We've been killing other death knights left and right...why would we trust one of these guys again? Although I'm sure we'll get some convoluted new lore to explain it, I just think there's no equivocating here--they're pure evil, and easily recognizable as such. Probably what we're getting is not a death knight in the mold of the Horde's original death knights or the Lich King's death knights, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Sometimes I admire Blizzard's ability to create shades of grey in their factions, but sometimes it's completely ridiculous. I know people like to defend the Forsaken and the blood elves, but I just can't figure it out. They don't just have evil members (like all the races do), they have unabashedly evil institutions (Blood Knights, Royal Apothecary Society). Playable death knights strike me as more of the same and I really dislike it.
All that said, I do like the idea of the tank/caster DPS hybrid, and I think there's plenty of room for them. In fact, if I was a feral druid I would be a bit worried because it's very close to the role they are filling very well. A feral build gives great tanking and melee damage abilities, and work very well as modal hybrids in a raid. I'd have to think that a class with great tanking and damage at range would be even more desirable. I can only wish paladin tanking/healing becomes as synergistic as the feral druid.
Sometimes I admire Blizzard's ability to create shades of grey in their factions, but sometimes it's completely ridiculous. I know people like to defend the Forsaken and the blood elves, but I just can't figure it out. They don't just have evil members (like all the races do), they have unabashedly evil institutions (Blood Knights, Royal Apothecary Society). Playable death knights strike me as more of the same and I really dislike it.
All that said, I do like the idea of the tank/caster DPS hybrid, and I think there's plenty of room for them. In fact, if I was a feral druid I would be a bit worried because it's very close to the role they are filling very well. A feral build gives great tanking and melee damage abilities, and work very well as modal hybrids in a raid. I'd have to think that a class with great tanking and damage at range would be even more desirable. I can only wish paladin tanking/healing becomes as synergistic as the feral druid.
# posted by : 8/8/07 16:10
: 8/8/07 16:10
It's the old hybrid problem, if the hybrid is better than the pure classes in their fields, he would simply replace them
It's not as black-or-white as that.
Druids make some of the best tanks I know, better in many cases than warriors. But feral druids have not replaced prot warriors.
Holy Paladins are arguably better healers than Holy Priests and have in many high-end guilds replaced them. Yet in lower-end guilds and 5-man instances, Priests still thrive - I know I can *always* get a group with my Holy Priest if I feel like PuG-ing.
The reason is simple - there are never enough tanks and healers, so the options are still viable, even if less ideal. Or in other words, beggars can't be choosers :)
It's not as black-or-white as that.
Druids make some of the best tanks I know, better in many cases than warriors. But feral druids have not replaced prot warriors.
Holy Paladins are arguably better healers than Holy Priests and have in many high-end guilds replaced them. Yet in lower-end guilds and 5-man instances, Priests still thrive - I know I can *always* get a group with my Holy Priest if I feel like PuG-ing.
The reason is simple - there are never enough tanks and healers, so the options are still viable, even if less ideal. Or in other words, beggars can't be choosers :)
If I may, while I'm going to chime in and say what's already been said before (Hybrids are quite valuable in raids), I would like to point out that one could justifiably say that if hybrids weren't brought along in raids... every raid would consist of nothing but Rogues, Mages, Warlocks and Hunters.
Warrior: DPS/Tank
Paladin: Healing/Tank/DPS(kinda)
Druid: Healing/Melee DPS/Ranged DPS/Tank
Shaman: Healing/Melee DPS/Ranged DPS
Priest: DPS/Healing
Tobold, I would advise you check out a post by Coriel, a paladin concerning different core designs for Hybrids in her post: Hybrid Theory: Fluid vs Modal. Loosely speaking, the concept that Coriel points out is that the way WoW is designed is that if you spec far enough into a tree and build up a strong set of gear for that role you lose fluidity (the ability to shift mid-combat from one role to another). With WoW being mostly unable to change gear mid-combat, prior to a fight you pick a role, and then you're pretty much stuck in that role. The only notable exceptions to this are Feral Druids going from Bear to Cat or Cat to Bear since many of the important stats for one are important for the other.
For example, currently I'm a Protection specced Paladin (46 points in the Prot tree). When I'm all dolled up in my tanking gear I have around 11k health and 5k mana, buffed. In this gear I emphasize stamina, defensive traits and a little spell damage (don't need a lot since I generate 190% threat from my holy damage). I can't DPS very well, I can't heal worth a crap, and even if I could, that would use up mana that I need for tanking. While I may not be 100% on par with a warrior in my tanking ability, that's only because Blizzard hasn't finished fixing the Paladin tanking class (which they have specifically said they are going to continue working on).
I expect Death Knight DPS and Tanking to be similar. They will have an ability that will probably be activated and either need to constantly be refreshed or will be able to be activated at the cost of 1 to 2 runes and it's left on. This ability give them a number of tanking stats (more armor, possibly more health or maybe making them uncrushable, and giving them a sizable bonus in threat generation) but take that rune or two out of the equation, meaning a sizable portion of their DPS was hindered. And even then a majority of their gear will be devoted towards survival, not DPS. They will get enough damaging stats to keep aggro on them, but their primary focus will be tanking. When they are DPSing, their gear will primarily focus towards that so they will be ill-prepared to shift into a tanking position.
With WoW not allowing you to change gear mid-combat, it forces people to either pick a role or pick the position of being a fluid hybrid. The latter is a rare and hard position, esp. in raids, because people want very focused players, not hybrids. A class that can fill multiple roles usually doesn't in WoW. They just take one tree and go full bore with it, and can usually be the equal of another of that role (and what they can't make up for with pure numbers, they make up for with overall utility).
Warrior: DPS/Tank
Paladin: Healing/Tank/DPS(kinda)
Druid: Healing/Melee DPS/Ranged DPS/Tank
Shaman: Healing/Melee DPS/Ranged DPS
Priest: DPS/Healing
Tobold, I would advise you check out a post by Coriel, a paladin concerning different core designs for Hybrids in her post: Hybrid Theory: Fluid vs Modal. Loosely speaking, the concept that Coriel points out is that the way WoW is designed is that if you spec far enough into a tree and build up a strong set of gear for that role you lose fluidity (the ability to shift mid-combat from one role to another). With WoW being mostly unable to change gear mid-combat, prior to a fight you pick a role, and then you're pretty much stuck in that role. The only notable exceptions to this are Feral Druids going from Bear to Cat or Cat to Bear since many of the important stats for one are important for the other.
For example, currently I'm a Protection specced Paladin (46 points in the Prot tree). When I'm all dolled up in my tanking gear I have around 11k health and 5k mana, buffed. In this gear I emphasize stamina, defensive traits and a little spell damage (don't need a lot since I generate 190% threat from my holy damage). I can't DPS very well, I can't heal worth a crap, and even if I could, that would use up mana that I need for tanking. While I may not be 100% on par with a warrior in my tanking ability, that's only because Blizzard hasn't finished fixing the Paladin tanking class (which they have specifically said they are going to continue working on).
I expect Death Knight DPS and Tanking to be similar. They will have an ability that will probably be activated and either need to constantly be refreshed or will be able to be activated at the cost of 1 to 2 runes and it's left on. This ability give them a number of tanking stats (more armor, possibly more health or maybe making them uncrushable, and giving them a sizable bonus in threat generation) but take that rune or two out of the equation, meaning a sizable portion of their DPS was hindered. And even then a majority of their gear will be devoted towards survival, not DPS. They will get enough damaging stats to keep aggro on them, but their primary focus will be tanking. When they are DPSing, their gear will primarily focus towards that so they will be ill-prepared to shift into a tanking position.
With WoW not allowing you to change gear mid-combat, it forces people to either pick a role or pick the position of being a fluid hybrid. The latter is a rare and hard position, esp. in raids, because people want very focused players, not hybrids. A class that can fill multiple roles usually doesn't in WoW. They just take one tree and go full bore with it, and can usually be the equal of another of that role (and what they can't make up for with pure numbers, they make up for with overall utility).
Except for hard-core, top-10 on the progression list, every server should have a spot for a good player at any spec or class. Any guild that does otherwise is simply falling prey to previously held beliefs that "such and such" class or spec can't do their job.
A level 70 decent-blue equipped prot paladin, feral druid, or prot warrior will be able to tank the first 3-4 bosses in Karazhan easily.
A decently-geared balance druid, ret paladin, or destro warlock will have no problem DPSing the first 3-4 bosses in Karazhan.
Same with healers.
Basically, the "perfect" raid-spec, and group build, will just help you down bosses that you are undergeared for. That's the way the game is intended to work. Do you really think that just because your guild killed one boss and got two more epics that you can miraculously defeat the next boss? No, that's not how it works.
A level 70 decent-blue equipped prot paladin, feral druid, or prot warrior will be able to tank the first 3-4 bosses in Karazhan easily.
A decently-geared balance druid, ret paladin, or destro warlock will have no problem DPSing the first 3-4 bosses in Karazhan.
Same with healers.
Basically, the "perfect" raid-spec, and group build, will just help you down bosses that you are undergeared for. That's the way the game is intended to work. Do you really think that just because your guild killed one boss and got two more epics that you can miraculously defeat the next boss? No, that's not how it works.
I wouldn't bother too much about Death Knights contravening established lore. It is quite clear that Blizzard has a very cavalier attitude towards their own world, changing it when it suits their purposes.
There will be some protests, perhaps even a few diehard roleplayers will quit. A few months later, everybody will have forgotten it, and it will seem gnomish and Tauren Death Knights have always been part of the world...
Man, if rewriting history were so easy in the real world, I'd be reading about the Roman general Varus defeating German SS troopers in the Teutoburger Forest in 9 AD, or something...:)
Luckily for Blizz, most WoW players have the effective attention span of a nematode on drugs, and the memory capacity of fossilised unicellar algae.
And to be honest, the rest shrugs and continues levelling, raiding and PvPing.
And Blizz knows that. Personally, I think it a bit odd that a company dedicated to quality apparently doesn't give a rat's ass about their world's established lore. Then again, it may indicate that it has always been about the game, the colour and the noise - not about a consistent or believable fictional world.
There will be some protests, perhaps even a few diehard roleplayers will quit. A few months later, everybody will have forgotten it, and it will seem gnomish and Tauren Death Knights have always been part of the world...
Man, if rewriting history were so easy in the real world, I'd be reading about the Roman general Varus defeating German SS troopers in the Teutoburger Forest in 9 AD, or something...:)
Luckily for Blizz, most WoW players have the effective attention span of a nematode on drugs, and the memory capacity of fossilised unicellar algae.
And to be honest, the rest shrugs and continues levelling, raiding and PvPing.
And Blizz knows that. Personally, I think it a bit odd that a company dedicated to quality apparently doesn't give a rat's ass about their world's established lore. Then again, it may indicate that it has always been about the game, the colour and the noise - not about a consistent or believable fictional world.
# posted by : 8/8/07 20:12
: 8/8/07 20:12
Since the "Lore" was originally written by Chris Metzen, isn't it perfectly allowable for it to be reinterpreted? We learn new things about history all the time. How about the concept of warlocks, where they use fel magic to fight for good or evil? Same concept with Death Knights.
Listening to many of the panels, especially the ones with Metzen, gave me extra insight to just how much this company cares about it's characters and it's games. They really truly are nerds about it all. And very rarely can you stump them or come up with something that wasn't already on their radar. Someone at one of the Q&A sessions asked about Garona, who we haven't heard of in a while. Of course, they've already had plans and thoughts about where she fits in, people just don't understand you can't blow it all open at once. Because really, then where would the story be? You can't know the ending of a living/breathing world.
Listening to many of the panels, especially the ones with Metzen, gave me extra insight to just how much this company cares about it's characters and it's games. They really truly are nerds about it all. And very rarely can you stump them or come up with something that wasn't already on their radar. Someone at one of the Q&A sessions asked about Garona, who we haven't heard of in a while. Of course, they've already had plans and thoughts about where she fits in, people just don't understand you can't blow it all open at once. Because really, then where would the story be? You can't know the ending of a living/breathing world.
Your last paragraph sums up what I was trying to argue for on the general forums today. I play a paladin so got flamed for wanting to be the only deathknight. Not true at all. I just didn't feel a paladin hero class was the same as a druid hero class.
I also was arguing that not all classes should have this hero class because it lessens the distinction between classes. Our in game choices are making less and less difference with each patch and expansion. Alliance vs. horde means very little anymore. Racials are going out. I would just like to see a little more consequence for deciding your character.
I also was arguing that not all classes should have this hero class because it lessens the distinction between classes. Our in game choices are making less and less difference with each patch and expansion. Alliance vs. horde means very little anymore. Racials are going out. I would just like to see a little more consequence for deciding your character.
# posted by : 8/8/07 22:52
: 8/8/07 22:52
EQii is adding a very cool feature imo. Quiet innovative, even for a game tht is like 5 years old.
They are adding the norrath cards that you can purchase, that have a direct role on your ingame char. Creates minigames for the EQii players to do something besides kill mobs and get epicly geared and gank ppl with no chance. The real professional catch with these norrath cards... You can find/get them ingame (so they actually become more valuable/tradeable) since they will add something fairly new to a, what otherwise has been struggling franchise (in the wake of WoW anyway).
Vanguard tried offering something kind of similiar with their parlay card system of lvling and their "speres" of advancement... but so far hasnt been supported well enough and plagued by some niche and bad public relation decisions.
Either way, adding new content to old games is goign to be a boon to the players still around. However, this time around adding 80 lvl cap and shadowknight class will not coherce me to buy the expansion.
long live diablo 2.. hopeflly soon 3??
They are adding the norrath cards that you can purchase, that have a direct role on your ingame char. Creates minigames for the EQii players to do something besides kill mobs and get epicly geared and gank ppl with no chance. The real professional catch with these norrath cards... You can find/get them ingame (so they actually become more valuable/tradeable) since they will add something fairly new to a, what otherwise has been struggling franchise (in the wake of WoW anyway).
Vanguard tried offering something kind of similiar with their parlay card system of lvling and their "speres" of advancement... but so far hasnt been supported well enough and plagued by some niche and bad public relation decisions.
Either way, adding new content to old games is goign to be a boon to the players still around. However, this time around adding 80 lvl cap and shadowknight class will not coherce me to buy the expansion.
long live diablo 2.. hopeflly soon 3??
funny there is so much drama over hero-classes, while in the original manual it was already said wow contains hero-classes. it never got implemented but hey ;)
# posted by : 9/8/07 13:43
: 9/8/07 13:43
I'd find it very amusing if the way they fixed 'deathknights as part of the alliance/horde' was if they were a third faction under arthas.
Maybe thats just me.
Maybe thats just me.
Blizzard are treating the Death Knight as a test case for hero classes. We all know how difficult it has been to balance the classes that were in from release, so that is obviously a major concern. But they also need to test what the right level to start at is, where the sweet spot is for gear etc etc.
There is alot of new things they need to test and get right. If the Death Knight is a success, i have no doubt we will probably start seeing 2 or 3 Hero classes at a time, or even another one in a patch before Expansion 3.
Id much prefer 1 Hero Class only, let them get it right, learn the lessons they need to learn and then apply that to further classes than 2 or 3 off the bat and a horrible mess ensuing.
There is alot of new things they need to test and get right. If the Death Knight is a success, i have no doubt we will probably start seeing 2 or 3 Hero classes at a time, or even another one in a patch before Expansion 3.
Id much prefer 1 Hero Class only, let them get it right, learn the lessons they need to learn and then apply that to further classes than 2 or 3 off the bat and a horrible mess ensuing.
Shadowknight is a must have class when there are paladins.
I personally think paladins would have been a much more flavorful "hero" class to implement first or right away in WoW, but meh I dont play anymore.
This system of going for max lvl back to lvl 1, is an often used feature on private server MMOrpgs called "rebirth", it isnt exactly innovative whatsoever and for a game that has a monthly cost. More green from the cash cow.
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I personally think paladins would have been a much more flavorful "hero" class to implement first or right away in WoW, but meh I dont play anymore.
This system of going for max lvl back to lvl 1, is an often used feature on private server MMOrpgs called "rebirth", it isnt exactly innovative whatsoever and for a game that has a monthly cost. More green from the cash cow.
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