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Sunday, October 07, 2007
Tribal gaming
Gamasutra last month had a very long article with game "academics" discussing that MMORPGs are tribal, with players often moving from one game to the next together with their guild. Unfortunately being tribal can also work against these games: For example my interest in LotRO declined when most people of my guild went back to WoW. And tribalism is also the reason why I cancelled my EQ2 subscription today.
I restarted EQ2 some weeks ago, because my original experience of the game had been interrupted by 2.5 years of World of Warcraft. I was looking forward to playing the new content added since then, especially Echoes of Faydwr, having been a big fan of the original Crushbone in EQ1. But now I found myself as a noob in a world full of characters at the level cap. Not only had Crushbone changed a lot from EQ1 to EQ2, but more importantly there was nobody to explore it with. It's a group zone, and there simply isn't a big queue of people waiting outside to form a group. In short I had a MMORPG, but I didn't have a tribe. You can't just join a 3-year old game, find a guild, and expect people of your level to be around to play with you.
I find MMORPGs make rather bad single-player RPGs. I played many of the classic single-player RPGs: the "gold box" D&D series, the Might & Magic series, the Wizardry series, the Baldur's Gate series, the two Neverwinter Nights, and some more. And most of these were better single-player RPGs than WoW or EQ2 are. They are *designed* for single-player gameplay, they don't lock you out of group-only content, and more importantly they have a far better story-telling than any MMORPG. It is only the interaction with other players that makes MMORPGs better games than single-player RPGs.
So now that I found I don't like Tabula Rasa, and that Pirates of the Burning Sea's release has been pushed to next year, I have to think what to play for the rest of this year. Beta MMORPGs certainly for some part. Maybe get back to Lord of the Rings Online, I haven't even explored book 10 yet, and book 11 is to be released soon. I could try some of the cheap browser-based MMORPGs, there are thousands of those. But I was also thinking of playing some more single-player games. I can't just sit still and wait for WAR.
- posted by Tobold @ 8:53 AM Permanent Link
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I'd give LOTRO a more thorough try. I started out when the game was launched and took it real easy in the months that followed. I guess that was a result of a combination of detoxing from hard core raiding in WoW (totally burned out) and LOTRO not hauling me in 110% from start.
But I kept coming back. Turbine's really been adding some stuff and at level 30-50 there's plenty to do now. Sure you can always use more, but the improvement is pretty fast. What's more, once I passed level 30 or so, my Guardian started feeling better and better in terms of his role in fellowships. The class really came together in a fun way.
What really pulls me into LOTRO is the fairly casual attitude to raiding content the developers are displaying. That's right, they are adding all sorts of content, rather than raiding content primarily. In addition the game has tremendous atmosphere, where the chapter-like epic storyline and various other instanced scenarios and places tell a compelling story. The dread system is amazing, it really creates a creepy atmosphere.
I feel you gave up on LOTRO too early to be honest. I watched a Nazgul raise the frozen corpse of a huge dragon last weekend and stood in awe. I hear you think: oh, so that's when you are hardcore raiding, you get to see dragons? No way, was like the end of epic book 5!
So give it a shot. Don't want to sound like a fanbois, but I took my time warming to LOTRO and it has dragged me in 100% now. I also had plenty guilders from WoW join me initially, only to see them leave soon as they weren't ready to give up WoW yet, or simply too burned out for anything. But just last few weeks I made a few really nice new friends in LOTRO. Open mind and swing that axe!
- Sveral - Dwarf Guardian on Snowbourn EU
But I kept coming back. Turbine's really been adding some stuff and at level 30-50 there's plenty to do now. Sure you can always use more, but the improvement is pretty fast. What's more, once I passed level 30 or so, my Guardian started feeling better and better in terms of his role in fellowships. The class really came together in a fun way.
What really pulls me into LOTRO is the fairly casual attitude to raiding content the developers are displaying. That's right, they are adding all sorts of content, rather than raiding content primarily. In addition the game has tremendous atmosphere, where the chapter-like epic storyline and various other instanced scenarios and places tell a compelling story. The dread system is amazing, it really creates a creepy atmosphere.
I feel you gave up on LOTRO too early to be honest. I watched a Nazgul raise the frozen corpse of a huge dragon last weekend and stood in awe. I hear you think: oh, so that's when you are hardcore raiding, you get to see dragons? No way, was like the end of epic book 5!
So give it a shot. Don't want to sound like a fanbois, but I took my time warming to LOTRO and it has dragged me in 100% now. I also had plenty guilders from WoW join me initially, only to see them leave soon as they weren't ready to give up WoW yet, or simply too burned out for anything. But just last few weeks I made a few really nice new friends in LOTRO. Open mind and swing that axe!
- Sveral - Dwarf Guardian on Snowbourn EU
# posted by 
: 7/10/07 09:38
: 7/10/07 09:38
I think you have a point that most MMORPGs have a sub-par single-player experience. It seems to me that the ones that come close (but not quite) to single-player RPGs are those that have a lot of soloable content like World of Warcraft or Lord of the Rings Online.
Perhaps the closest MMO to a single-player RPG that I've played thus far is the Guild Wars. I've completed all three campaigns with a party solely composed of henchmen and, with the release of Nightfall, heroes. It even has the requisite cut-scenes that flesh out the main story arc in between missions. (Though depending on how strictly you define your genres, you could argue that Guild Wars isn't an MMORPG--in fact ArenaNet prefers to call it a Cooperative Online RPG)
Perhaps the closest MMO to a single-player RPG that I've played thus far is the Guild Wars. I've completed all three campaigns with a party solely composed of henchmen and, with the release of Nightfall, heroes. It even has the requisite cut-scenes that flesh out the main story arc in between missions. (Though depending on how strictly you define your genres, you could argue that Guild Wars isn't an MMORPG--in fact ArenaNet prefers to call it a Cooperative Online RPG)
# posted by : 7/10/07 10:36
: 7/10/07 10:36
Speaking of Neverwinter 2, the Mask of Betrayer expansion rocks. I hope you have gotten it, Tobold. :)
I've been out of the MMOG business since I retired from Wow back in March.
I dabble in the browser-based ones like www.urbandead.com but they only take a few minutes a day really. I just have no desire to play TR and like you, WAR seems far away ha.
But I'm enjoying the break honestly. I was in LOTRO for a period in beta but it didn't draw me in so I never played it after it launched.
At this point I'm enjoying the time off honestly doing other things like Fantasy Football, reading, watching new Fall shows, ton of movies, etc..
A dedicated MMORPG that I spend alot of time in takes away from off of that. However, I plan on trying out AoC & WAR.
I dabble in the browser-based ones like www.urbandead.com but they only take a few minutes a day really. I just have no desire to play TR and like you, WAR seems far away ha.
But I'm enjoying the break honestly. I was in LOTRO for a period in beta but it didn't draw me in so I never played it after it launched.
At this point I'm enjoying the time off honestly doing other things like Fantasy Football, reading, watching new Fall shows, ton of movies, etc..
A dedicated MMORPG that I spend alot of time in takes away from off of that. However, I plan on trying out AoC & WAR.
# posted by : 7/10/07 14:36
: 7/10/07 14:36
A lot of game enjoyment comes from those who you can play with. Even the most boring grind can be fun when done with others.
If you decide to give Lotro another try, there's The Grey Guard and The Silent Minority kins, at least, which are designed for older (30+) casual players who just want to have fun playing together. Both on Laurelin server, which I believe you were playing in as well.
If you decide to give Lotro another try, there's The Grey Guard and The Silent Minority kins, at least, which are designed for older (30+) casual players who just want to have fun playing together. Both on Laurelin server, which I believe you were playing in as well.
# posted by : 7/10/07 15:24
: 7/10/07 15:24
Hey Tobold if you looking for some browser based MMORPG then I'd start with Runescape. In many ways it's quite a step back from any MMO youre playing right now but it's worth a few minutes of play to try out if it'd your cup of tea. Also if you want some pirate themed MMO then try Puzzle Pirates.
# posted by : 7/10/07 20:22
: 7/10/07 20:22
Hmmm. That's pretty much what happened to me. Due to scheduling conflicts and a few other things, I lost my regular group of players in wow. Once my tribe was gone there was really nothing there for me. Hung around for a month or so but finally dropped out.
Been in a couple of Beta's since then but nothing has grabbed me. I tried EverQuest but new players in an old MMO are basically playing a solo game till they catch up.
Oh Well hopefully War will be close to as good as the hype. If not I may just be done with even trying MMMO's for awhile.
Been in a couple of Beta's since then but nothing has grabbed me. I tried EverQuest but new players in an old MMO are basically playing a solo game till they catch up.
Oh Well hopefully War will be close to as good as the hype. If not I may just be done with even trying MMMO's for awhile.
Crushbone is not a "mandatory" zone and for anyone outside Kelethin quite remote. Thats the reason stormhold is still a favorite for many 20 somethings.
You managed 18 adventure levels as of last thursday since August 10th. I only know what you posted, but it does seem to me that you are leveling very slow. As Crushbone is level 20-30 at your schedule that would be a month where you could join any group forming for crushbone and have maximized experience. even later you could mentor down and still enjoy the zone.
Unfortunately the game now has so many newbie 1-20 zones (and will get another one with kunark) that people are very distributed at the lower levels. So grouping will take time, but since there is so much solo stuff by now, one can´t help but level up solo if following the solo quest arcs.
And the higher up you get, the more grouping opportunities will arise (esp. if you are willing to mentor). Its a pity that you miss out on the majority of content for EQ2 by quitting so early.
If MMORGPGs are tribal Tobold is a nomadic tribe on his own... ;)
You managed 18 adventure levels as of last thursday since August 10th. I only know what you posted, but it does seem to me that you are leveling very slow. As Crushbone is level 20-30 at your schedule that would be a month where you could join any group forming for crushbone and have maximized experience. even later you could mentor down and still enjoy the zone.
Unfortunately the game now has so many newbie 1-20 zones (and will get another one with kunark) that people are very distributed at the lower levels. So grouping will take time, but since there is so much solo stuff by now, one can´t help but level up solo if following the solo quest arcs.
And the higher up you get, the more grouping opportunities will arise (esp. if you are willing to mentor). Its a pity that you miss out on the majority of content for EQ2 by quitting so early.
If MMORGPGs are tribal Tobold is a nomadic tribe on his own... ;)
# posted by : 8/10/07 00:36
: 8/10/07 00:36
Played Runescape many many moons ago (when it was totally free) and quite enjoyed it. Guess we're probably in a minority of two tho. :)
Also curious why anyone would go back to WoW. Aren't you immediately out-levelled/out-equipped and there redundant for raids with your so-called guildmates the minute you log off. ;)
Also curious why anyone would go back to WoW. Aren't you immediately out-levelled/out-equipped and there redundant for raids with your so-called guildmates the minute you log off. ;)
# posted by : 8/10/07 03:04
: 8/10/07 03:04
I've been spending my current time in Guild Wars, playing it as a single-player game.
Having left it to ferment very early on (before Factions, and before the signet of capture change even), it was eye-opening and gratifying to take in all the improvements since then.
Heroes definitely improve the single-player experience, and its survivability. The recent expansion, Eye of the North, has also added some hilarious and addictive minigames - dwarf boxing! I couldn't stop...
Having left it to ferment very early on (before Factions, and before the signet of capture change even), it was eye-opening and gratifying to take in all the improvements since then.
Heroes definitely improve the single-player experience, and its survivability. The recent expansion, Eye of the North, has also added some hilarious and addictive minigames - dwarf boxing! I couldn't stop...
# posted by : 8/10/07 07:39
: 8/10/07 07:39
@ anonymous
See that's the problem established MMO's have with new players though. Your average casual player that is not powerleveling ends up spending thier first Month or two all alone. Having played these types of games both ways I understand the Hard core power leveler who gets confused that people drop out at 10 or 20th level and walk away but remember what is 3 days content for a power leveler can be 2 or 3 months for a more casual player. And 2 or 3 months of solo play for someone that got into an MMMO to play with other people is probably a lost player.
See that's the problem established MMO's have with new players though. Your average casual player that is not powerleveling ends up spending thier first Month or two all alone. Having played these types of games both ways I understand the Hard core power leveler who gets confused that people drop out at 10 or 20th level and walk away but remember what is 3 days content for a power leveler can be 2 or 3 months for a more casual player. And 2 or 3 months of solo play for someone that got into an MMMO to play with other people is probably a lost player.
That's a really interesting article. Of course, WoW's got the best of both worlds going on - compelling solo play until level 20-30, and the critical social mass that keeps people reupping their accounts even when they're not doing any more than logging in and chatting with guildies while doing a transmute once a day.
I find it amusing that a guy with over 2,000 visitors to his site everyday has trouble finding friends to group with.
# posted by : 9/10/07 07:57
: 9/10/07 07:57
I can sympathize with the tribal aspect of MMORGs. I have been part of a core group of about 6-8 of us that float from game to game. All in all I cant think of many games we have not played together. Usually when about half of us leave, we all lose our interest in the game.
Recently, our WoW guild turned more or less hardcore. Without the time to devote to such undertakings, I went back to play EQ2 to experience all the changes since opening and some old EQ1 nostalga. So far I have made it to the lower 20s as a Dirge on Permafrost.
I enjoyed a great deal of the lower level quests and events. Now that I am in the lower 20s, I find myself funneled back to areas I found were bottlenecks to me back when the game opened. So, I am trying to make an effort to go to new areas (to me) like Butcheblock and may try to make it to Crushbone as the commenter above indicates its in the correct level range.
I dont know what server you play on, but if you are on Permafrost you are welcome to add me, Starge, as a friend and group up as time permits.
Recently, our WoW guild turned more or less hardcore. Without the time to devote to such undertakings, I went back to play EQ2 to experience all the changes since opening and some old EQ1 nostalga. So far I have made it to the lower 20s as a Dirge on Permafrost.
I enjoyed a great deal of the lower level quests and events. Now that I am in the lower 20s, I find myself funneled back to areas I found were bottlenecks to me back when the game opened. So, I am trying to make an effort to go to new areas (to me) like Butcheblock and may try to make it to Crushbone as the commenter above indicates its in the correct level range.
I dont know what server you play on, but if you are on Permafrost you are welcome to add me, Starge, as a friend and group up as time permits.
# posted by : 9/10/07 14:49
: 9/10/07 14:49
"You'd be surprised how many bloggers got into trouble with their guilds *because* they had a blog."
Consider it a lucky escape. ;)
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Consider it a lucky escape. ;)
# posted by : 9/10/07 23:29
: 9/10/07 23:29<< Home
