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Wednesday, October 24, 2007
When the Web 2.0 goes bad
Techcrunch reports a new decision of the US court of appeals helping a new generation of Web 2.0 porn sites. Apparently there are sites that work like YouTube, only providing porn instead of funny home videos of skateboarding dogs, and the court's decision on age record keeping laws being unconstitutional removes one of the legal hurdles for these sites. I can hear US politicians howling already.
Personally, being European I have a more relaxed attitude towards sex and porn than the US public. It would appear to me that most parents would want their children to have sex after a certain age, and would not want them to take drugs or to kill other people at any age. Thus I'm with the general European policy of restricting kids access to depictions of violence more strictly than their access to nude images.
In any case all the politicians and parents thinking that they could "shield" their children from porn are deluding themselves. You might be able to prevent them from accidentally stumbling upon it. But a normal teenage boy will actively search for porn on the internet, and the technical solution to prevent him from finding it doesn't exist. Restrictions to porn websites of any kind, Web 2.0 or old style, won't help a bit. 70% of the traffic of the internet is from filesharing, and a good portion of that is pornographic material. As filesharing is mostly illegal anyway, adding another law to restrict it won't hinder it a bit.
The only solution is the forgotten art of "parenting" that many people nowadays haven't even heard about. Parents need to talk with their teenage children about sex, just as they need to talk with them about drugs, violence, and all the other bad things in live. Trying to create a perfect world bubble around your children will not only not work, it also ends up with your children being less likely to be able to handle difficult situations when they finally come into contact with the real world. Regarding sex, it is better to listen to scientific facts than to outdated ideas of conservative politicians.
- posted by Tobold @ 10:26 AM Permanent Link
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Porn is harmless and very educational. There are more important things to in life to worry about preventing your children from seeing/doing than looking at porn.
# posted by 
: 24/10/07 11:38
: 24/10/07 11:38
According to the link it's the age of the people performing that the law requires them to keep records of, not the age of the people watching.
While you're probably right about the uselessness of trying to stop teenagers from watching porn, stopping them performing is entirely another matter.
While you're probably right about the uselessness of trying to stop teenagers from watching porn, stopping them performing is entirely another matter.
I was raised parents who would rather I see and ask questions than try to hide everything from me and then leave me on my own to figure stuff out. Not saying she showed me porn of course she didn't but she was an involved parent that actually talked to me about issues even when it was uncomfortable for her.
Thats the key as tobold said. Some parents and not just here in the US expect teachers and strangers at church the community centers etc to teach thier kids the stuff they don't want to deal with. That's the big problem. Parents who are too busy to fill the most critical responsibility they'll ever have. Molding that person they created.
As far as porn I don't think its an earth shattering,horrible thing but I think its a rather simplistic view to say there's nothing wrong with it either. As an adult you know its fantasy. But teenagers can get the absolute wrong lessons about treating people as objects etc. Some things should be limited to adults and this is one of them.
Having lived in germany and grown up in the states I do have to admit that germans have a much more healthy outlook on some things. America is still a nation trying to discover how to balance our true natures ,with our idealized version of what it should be.
Thats the key as tobold said. Some parents and not just here in the US expect teachers and strangers at church the community centers etc to teach thier kids the stuff they don't want to deal with. That's the big problem. Parents who are too busy to fill the most critical responsibility they'll ever have. Molding that person they created.
As far as porn I don't think its an earth shattering,horrible thing but I think its a rather simplistic view to say there's nothing wrong with it either. As an adult you know its fantasy. But teenagers can get the absolute wrong lessons about treating people as objects etc. Some things should be limited to adults and this is one of them.
Having lived in germany and grown up in the states I do have to admit that germans have a much more healthy outlook on some things. America is still a nation trying to discover how to balance our true natures ,with our idealized version of what it should be.
It's true that the brunt of molding a child falls on the parents, but every parent knows that good parenting never completely drowns out the voice of the cultural environment. I agree that porn-regulation laws don't do much good. Porn has always existed and will always exist, and the reason it's so popular today has more to do with pop culture than easy access. It's hard to find a movie made after the 1970s that doesn't make some approving reference to casual, extra-marital sex. Changing the culture of entertainers would probably be the most effective step toward curbing porn viewing.
As for the basis of American traditionalists' concern with sexual depictions, unlike most of Europe and Canada, most of our citizens are religious. Not only do Christians make up most of our population, and Catholics (like me) comprise nearly a quarter of that population (over 70 million). Only Poland and a handful of other European nations retain a Christian majority, and European Christians tend to be more secular than ours. American Christians are more likely to attend Mass or services on Sundays than their European counterparts.
Christians, Jews, and (I think) Muslims believe that feeding such desires for extra-marital and purely physical sex gradually shapes a person to, among other things, perceive others more as instruments for personal satisfaction than as complete and individual human beings. Fascination with the body becomes immoderate. It's actually a very basic principle of secular psychology that the more a person actively supports a thought or action, the more frequent and more powerful that thought or action will become.
You might say, "Yes, but a little now and then won't hurt." Christians don't believe a little sin now and then won't hurt. Our every willful act shapes us and changes our inclination to future choices. And our every act is choice to embrace or reject God's love.
As for the basis of American traditionalists' concern with sexual depictions, unlike most of Europe and Canada, most of our citizens are religious. Not only do Christians make up most of our population, and Catholics (like me) comprise nearly a quarter of that population (over 70 million). Only Poland and a handful of other European nations retain a Christian majority, and European Christians tend to be more secular than ours. American Christians are more likely to attend Mass or services on Sundays than their European counterparts.
Christians, Jews, and (I think) Muslims believe that feeding such desires for extra-marital and purely physical sex gradually shapes a person to, among other things, perceive others more as instruments for personal satisfaction than as complete and individual human beings. Fascination with the body becomes immoderate. It's actually a very basic principle of secular psychology that the more a person actively supports a thought or action, the more frequent and more powerful that thought or action will become.
You might say, "Yes, but a little now and then won't hurt." Christians don't believe a little sin now and then won't hurt. Our every willful act shapes us and changes our inclination to future choices. And our every act is choice to embrace or reject God's love.
Please don't confuse the attitudes and positions of American politicians with those of normal Americans. Politicians are not at all representative of normal people.
I'd think that were true even in Belgium.
I'd think that were true even in Belgium.
# posted by : 24/10/07 20:27
: 24/10/07 20:27
Don't confuse the population of vocal MMORPG players with normal people either. For that matter, don't confuse the jerk that just ganked you with the average WoW player. A stranger is still a friend you haven't met yet.
# posted by : 24/10/07 20:42
: 24/10/07 20:42
Christians, Jews, and (I think) Muslims believe that feeding such desires for extra-marital and purely physical sex gradually shapes a person to, among other things, perceive others more as instruments for personal satisfaction than as complete and individual human beings.
I'm not saying porn is good, especially not for children. But as you said, children are surrounded by a culture outside home where a teenage boy is likely to think porn is "cool". Trying to prevent him from ever seeing any by relying on politicians or filter software isn't going to work, and is rather cowardly. What the parents have to do is to explain to the child what exactly is bad about porn. Not just "you're not allowed to see any", but explaining him the why, and also telling him that it is all just make-believe and that real relationships don't work that way. He'll probably have a look at it whatever you say, but at least he'll be mentally prepared.
Please don't confuse the attitudes and positions of American politicians with those of normal Americans. Politicians are not at all representative of normal people.
I'm well aware that the USA is the world's biggest market for porn. But the gap between what people say in public and what they actually do is rather funny for foreigners. In Europe Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction" would have barely raised an eyebrow, but in the US it was *both* a bit scandal *and* the most replayed scene ever observed in the history of the TiVo (apparently your TiVo is sending that info right back to the central server).
It also confuses Europeans that if you watch American TV shows the language is very clean, but if you ever happen to be in the USA you hear a lot more 4-letter words than in Europe.
America is still a nation trying to discover how to balance our true natures with our idealized version of what it should be.
Best explanation of this that I've ever read.
I'm not saying porn is good, especially not for children. But as you said, children are surrounded by a culture outside home where a teenage boy is likely to think porn is "cool". Trying to prevent him from ever seeing any by relying on politicians or filter software isn't going to work, and is rather cowardly. What the parents have to do is to explain to the child what exactly is bad about porn. Not just "you're not allowed to see any", but explaining him the why, and also telling him that it is all just make-believe and that real relationships don't work that way. He'll probably have a look at it whatever you say, but at least he'll be mentally prepared.
Please don't confuse the attitudes and positions of American politicians with those of normal Americans. Politicians are not at all representative of normal people.
I'm well aware that the USA is the world's biggest market for porn. But the gap between what people say in public and what they actually do is rather funny for foreigners. In Europe Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction" would have barely raised an eyebrow, but in the US it was *both* a bit scandal *and* the most replayed scene ever observed in the history of the TiVo (apparently your TiVo is sending that info right back to the central server).
It also confuses Europeans that if you watch American TV shows the language is very clean, but if you ever happen to be in the USA you hear a lot more 4-letter words than in Europe.
America is still a nation trying to discover how to balance our true natures with our idealized version of what it should be.
Best explanation of this that I've ever read.
I agree with all that you are saying, but I have to point out that the "scientific fact" link is crap. They cite multiple statistics about 15-19 year olds -- when 15-17 year olds are probably in high school living at home and 18-19 year olds are often in college and not at home. Two totally disparate groups and it's idiotic to lump the two together.
# posted by : 25/10/07 00:18
: 25/10/07 00:18
The great challenge is to teach children enough self esteem so that they are able to resist risky behavior, even if it means being ostracized, but not so much self esteem that daddy and mommy's precious little snowflake becomes a narcissistic asshole once they become adults.
# posted by : 25/10/07 04:13
: 25/10/07 04:13
When Web 2.0 goes good:
A Google Maps mashup of San Diego forest fires, complete with evacuation orders, status of shelters, closed roads..
All updated real-time, of course.
A Google Maps mashup of San Diego forest fires, complete with evacuation orders, status of shelters, closed roads..
All updated real-time, of course.
As the parent of a teenager I agree with you, but you don't make a strong enough case. Kids at this age (boys and girls) will seek out porn. If you want to make the discussion a power struggler with your kid, one that you'll lose, then by all means fight them over porn. If, on the other hand, you want them to feel that you're on the same 'side' as them on things like real safety (please don't give away real identifying information about yourself, don't arrange to meet physically anyone you encounter on line, do share with me anything you find disturbing) then don't worry about a little porn on the Internet.
I think the difference between images is watching violent movies don't make you want to go out and commit violence. But watching porn ... :)
Basically teaching children how to make good decisions starts when they are 1 years old. So many parents, including mine, never taught about "why" or the consequences, and often never lived as examples. Your kids won't suddenly make good decisions when they are young adults if you've never even let them make any decisions in the first place.
My parents also didn't take a very good approach. They did not take porn I had away when they found it, but they did make fun of me about it. that was... really bad. Don't make fun of your kids when it comes to sex, they are already messed up and confused.
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Basically teaching children how to make good decisions starts when they are 1 years old. So many parents, including mine, never taught about "why" or the consequences, and often never lived as examples. Your kids won't suddenly make good decisions when they are young adults if you've never even let them make any decisions in the first place.
My parents also didn't take a very good approach. They did not take porn I had away when they found it, but they did make fun of me about it. that was... really bad. Don't make fun of your kids when it comes to sex, they are already messed up and confused.
# posted by : 29/10/07 18:59
: 29/10/07 18:59<< Home
