Wednesday, December 05, 2007
Do I need a voice to be real?
Via Brackish Waters I found Brent's (from Virginworlds) comment on Another Here about me saying: "These are things that CAN be done with the written word, but not nearly as effectively. Take Tobold and Van Hemlock, two notable gaming bloggers. Everyone knows their work, but do you feel like you know Tobold? Even after 1000 posts, he is still a disembodied (silent)voice in the blogosphere and readers have no idea of what he is all about, as a person. If he started podcasting, that would change overnight."
Now Brent is running what is probably the most popular MMO podcast out there, so I must forgive him a certain bias towards the spoken word. :) But I'd like to answer his comment with two points:
1) There are things you can do with the written word that you can't do with the spoken word. The written word doesn't suffer from accents, mumblings, or being either too fast or too slow. The written word is easier to edit for the writer, and for the reader easier to read in non-sequential ways, like reading diagonally, or jumping back to reread a previous phrase. Thus the written word often allows expressing more complicated concepts than the spoken word. The written word is easier to search through with Google. The written word can also be easily read on a computer screen at work without your boss noticing. My blog gets 30% more hits on weekdays than on weekends, and a good percentage of the mail I get is written on some company mail system. There is a reason why this site is silent and not too flashy. ;)
2) Half of the things I could possibly reveal by having a voice are things that I don't want to reveal. Not that it is very likely in my case, but people have been fired from their jobs after their employer found their photo on their blog, and a voice might be just as recognizable. The other thing podcasting would reveal is that I have a bad German accent, and that I am a better writer than I am a speaker. If blogging would suddenly be completely replaced by podcasting, I would probably be like the silent movie stars who lost their career when the talkies came. I'd say everybody should stick to the form of expression at which he is good at.
Do you think I am less real because I don't have a voice? That you have no idea of what I am all about, as a person? Or are you happier with me as a writer than as a talker?
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You're real "enough"... :)
Besides, don't forget spell/grammar checking which are a bit harder to do with the spoken word! :)
Besides, don't forget spell/grammar checking which are a bit harder to do with the spoken word! :)
The MMO media needs variety of form. I know a few excellent podcasters, whose blogs look as coherent as a screenshot of Barrens chat, and some great bloggers whose attempts at podcasting make my ears bleed.
I agree that people should stick to the form of media that they feel comfortable and excel at... with the industry expanding so much in the past few years and as it continues to grow, there will be plenty of room for everyone and every style.
I agree that people should stick to the form of media that they feel comfortable and excel at... with the industry expanding so much in the past few years and as it continues to grow, there will be plenty of room for everyone and every style.
Since I've only recently started reading your blog, I have to say that I don't know you ... I can get a feel for what you're about though, by the topics that you choose.
Podcasting is great, and I love listening to podcasts, but I also enjoy reading blogs and having the time to digest what is being said. And to respond.
Podcasting is great, and I love listening to podcasts, but I also enjoy reading blogs and having the time to digest what is being said. And to respond.
Tobold Wrote: "The written word can also be easily read on a computer screen at work without your boss noticing. My blog gets 30% more hits on weekdays than on weekends, and a good percentage of the mail I get is written on some company mail system. There is a reason why this site is silent and not too flashy. ;)"
Amen. This is a prime example of why I visit your site and not some ad-heavy console network. That, and the well-written, insightful entries.
And while I have no problem listening to heavy accents, I think it would actually be a bit jarring for some folks who already have an idea of your written voice in their heads.
I'm cool with the written form, but a podcast or two might be entertaining. Though I really don't know what you can offer through sound that you can't through text.
Amen. This is a prime example of why I visit your site and not some ad-heavy console network. That, and the well-written, insightful entries.
And while I have no problem listening to heavy accents, I think it would actually be a bit jarring for some folks who already have an idea of your written voice in their heads.
I'm cool with the written form, but a podcast or two might be entertaining. Though I really don't know what you can offer through sound that you can't through text.
I like the site just the way it is. The basic no-flashy layout with just text to read. I have no interest in hearing somebody talk on my speakers about some game.
I also don't feel like I should know you in any way. You're some stranger on the internet like everybody else. That doesn't stop me from liking to read what you write. And how would hearing a voice suddenly make me know you? I still wouldnt know your name or any further details, and we still wouldnt be going to the movies together.
I also don't feel like I should know you in any way. You're some stranger on the internet like everybody else. That doesn't stop me from liking to read what you write. And how would hearing a voice suddenly make me know you? I still wouldnt know your name or any further details, and we still wouldnt be going to the movies together.
I would never listen to a podcast. I find them to be soooo slow in comparison to text. I can skim articles and ingest the parts that I want to focus on, versus sitting through every word.
I thought the workday versus weekend stat to be interesting. I only read here at work. At home I have games to play!
I thought the workday versus weekend stat to be interesting. I only read here at work. At home I have games to play!
The guy sounds like a religious fundamentalist. You know the type, the wrong way and his way.
And for the record, the most important reason to avoid podcast is that they discriminate against the hearing impaired.
And for the record, the most important reason to avoid podcast is that they discriminate against the hearing impaired.
I vastly prefer the written form.
Even if we grant that I would "know you better" if I heard your voice (about which I am unconvinced), I really wouldn't because I would not bother to go through the hassle of listening to such audio.
I am (a) lazy, and (b) have excellent reading skills. I can read 30 minutes of spoken content in a small fraction of that time.
Where's the value-added for me in listening to someone ramble on?
(If people *insist* on podcasting, then they'd better provide transcripts.)
Even if we grant that I would "know you better" if I heard your voice (about which I am unconvinced), I really wouldn't because I would not bother to go through the hassle of listening to such audio.
I am (a) lazy, and (b) have excellent reading skills. I can read 30 minutes of spoken content in a small fraction of that time.
Where's the value-added for me in listening to someone ramble on?
(If people *insist* on podcasting, then they'd better provide transcripts.)
love the blog, and have never got to grips with podcasts, so please keep up the fine writing :)
with that kind of thinking we'd all have stopped reading books and newspapers when the radio was invented? I think each has their place, and so do blogs...
with that kind of thinking we'd all have stopped reading books and newspapers when the radio was invented? I think each has their place, and so do blogs...
I like podcasts and listen to quite a few related to MMORPGs, but I wouldn't want to give up the many equally useful blogs and websites I follow.
I can't listen podcasts at work and I can't read websites while commuting back and forth or mowing the lawn.
And I agree with your about their different strengths.
Most podcasts tend to be more entertaining -- personality-driven and humorous, but lighter on real content (usually "what we did in-game this week," followed by a discussion of news bits from websites, followed by a rant on some topic, followed by listener calls). There are a few exceptions from that format, but not many.
While the best blogs and websites tackle topics in much more depth, often crosslinking to other web resources so you can get more background or more details and/or bringing their audience into the conversation via comments. I agree with Brent that the result is often much less personal, but also much richer in real information.
I'm just glad I don't have to choose -- I can have my cake and eat, err, listen to it too. :)
I can't listen podcasts at work and I can't read websites while commuting back and forth or mowing the lawn.
And I agree with your about their different strengths.
Most podcasts tend to be more entertaining -- personality-driven and humorous, but lighter on real content (usually "what we did in-game this week," followed by a discussion of news bits from websites, followed by a rant on some topic, followed by listener calls). There are a few exceptions from that format, but not many.
While the best blogs and websites tackle topics in much more depth, often crosslinking to other web resources so you can get more background or more details and/or bringing their audience into the conversation via comments. I agree with Brent that the result is often much less personal, but also much richer in real information.
I'm just glad I don't have to choose -- I can have my cake and eat, err, listen to it too. :)
Personally I find podcasts boring to listen to and don't see what the big deal is with them.
Keep up with your winning formula Tobold
Keep up with your winning formula Tobold
Pod Casting is awful for this type of MMO comments.
How much harder would it be to stike up a meaninful dialogue between your readers based on listening to long pod cast. Skimming an article to refer to a point in the discussion is not practical in a pod cast. Thus your readers would be less likely to respond. Then readers of your readers comments wouldn't have 'comment' material to agree or disagree with. You would be lacking reader input very quickly if you went down that route.
Also...
The voice kills!
I was at work a few years ago with the BBC Radio World Service on in the background. There was an interview playing, an author I soon gathered. His vocal tone was incredibly annoying, his manner was irksome and I soon began to dislike this unknown author. I made a mental note not to buy this guys books!
In turns out that it was Terry Pratchett. D'oh. I've been a fanatic for many years of his novels. Now I can hardly pick up one of his books.
Point being... you might shatter any illusions I have of you T.
At moment, you are an all enlightened guru basking in holy light at the top of Mount Hyjal.
How much harder would it be to stike up a meaninful dialogue between your readers based on listening to long pod cast. Skimming an article to refer to a point in the discussion is not practical in a pod cast. Thus your readers would be less likely to respond. Then readers of your readers comments wouldn't have 'comment' material to agree or disagree with. You would be lacking reader input very quickly if you went down that route.
Also...
The voice kills!
I was at work a few years ago with the BBC Radio World Service on in the background. There was an interview playing, an author I soon gathered. His vocal tone was incredibly annoying, his manner was irksome and I soon began to dislike this unknown author. I made a mental note not to buy this guys books!
In turns out that it was Terry Pratchett. D'oh. I've been a fanatic for many years of his novels. Now I can hardly pick up one of his books.
Point being... you might shatter any illusions I have of you T.
At moment, you are an all enlightened guru basking in holy light at the top of Mount Hyjal.
I should have probably been more clear (or at least the comments here make that apparent). I'm not crashing on blogging. Sure I prefer podcasting, but I write my share too and I follow far more blogs than podcasts.
My comments were simply an observation of the perceived strong suits of podcasting, which as was clearly pointed out here, goes both ways. Strengths and weakness are apparent in each format.
Also, my offhand reference to Tobold, who I respect plenty, was made simply because he is one of the more know figures in the MMO blogging world, which further serves my point(s).
Also, it is completely fair to recognize that some people prefer to speak while others prefer to write. Nothing wrong with that. Neither shows a weakness or fear as some seem to think, it is only a preference.
Nice discussion here.
Now, if I can only talk Tobold into being a guest host on the podcast...
My comments were simply an observation of the perceived strong suits of podcasting, which as was clearly pointed out here, goes both ways. Strengths and weakness are apparent in each format.
Also, my offhand reference to Tobold, who I respect plenty, was made simply because he is one of the more know figures in the MMO blogging world, which further serves my point(s).
Also, it is completely fair to recognize that some people prefer to speak while others prefer to write. Nothing wrong with that. Neither shows a weakness or fear as some seem to think, it is only a preference.
Nice discussion here.
Now, if I can only talk Tobold into being a guest host on the podcast...
Tobold,
Why not open a facebook account and a group for "wow bloggers" or "wow bloggers and fans" :)
That way you would be a lot more than a "disembodied (silent)voice" (pictures, whatever personal details you chose to expose, etc.) without having to speak at all :)
Why not open a facebook account and a group for "wow bloggers" or "wow bloggers and fans" :)
That way you would be a lot more than a "disembodied (silent)voice" (pictures, whatever personal details you chose to expose, etc.) without having to speak at all :)
SolidState wrote: "Why not open a facebook account[...]. That way you would be a lot more than a "disembodied (silent)voice" (pictures, whatever personal details you chose to expose, etc.)"
And that is probably so much more true than one thinks of, when creating such an account...
And that is probably so much more true than one thinks of, when creating such an account...
silent reader supports silent commenter^^
keep on the good work.
Points are made clearer in text, and it's much easyer to read back on older posts.
5 coolpoints for the german accent too:)
Nur weiter so, dies ist einer der Interressantesten Blogs
/Angh
keep on the good work.
Points are made clearer in text, and it's much easyer to read back on older posts.
5 coolpoints for the german accent too:)
Nur weiter so, dies ist einer der Interressantesten Blogs
/Angh
please don't podcast.
i don't listen to podcasts of any sort, and i have no interest in doing so. what i want from blogs is the ability to parse information efficiently - the author by taking something they know about and writing about it succinctly and coherently, and me as a reader being able to scan the text to judge quickly its relevance and whether i need to read it closely.
podcasts provide me neither facility - the speaker rarely (in the few i've listened to) bothers to edit or prepare themselves; it's all Wayne's World, but for real.
and even in those instances where the speaker *does* prepare themselves properly, my ability to quickly grasp their argument is removed - i'm forced to listen to them plod their way thru whatever point they're trying to make before i can decide whether or not it's a point i wish to spend that time paying attention to.
more writing, less speaking!
as for the laughable suggestion that the audience 'knows' a speaker more than a writer... the author has been dead for a long time; appearing on tv doesn't resuscitate them.
i don't listen to podcasts of any sort, and i have no interest in doing so. what i want from blogs is the ability to parse information efficiently - the author by taking something they know about and writing about it succinctly and coherently, and me as a reader being able to scan the text to judge quickly its relevance and whether i need to read it closely.
podcasts provide me neither facility - the speaker rarely (in the few i've listened to) bothers to edit or prepare themselves; it's all Wayne's World, but for real.
and even in those instances where the speaker *does* prepare themselves properly, my ability to quickly grasp their argument is removed - i'm forced to listen to them plod their way thru whatever point they're trying to make before i can decide whether or not it's a point i wish to spend that time paying attention to.
more writing, less speaking!
as for the laughable suggestion that the audience 'knows' a speaker more than a writer... the author has been dead for a long time; appearing on tv doesn't resuscitate them.
To be honest, I like written blogs over podcasts because I can ignore the ads on a blog. It's not worth the effort to fast forward thru a podcast's ads, and thus I end up enduring them. Also, I have a tendency to not pay as much attention to a podcast than a blog. A blog is much more focused, while most podcasts that I hear end up having bits and pieces of fluff (having nothing to do with the subject matter) where they try to keep you entertained.
=====================
Essi said :
"I have no interest in hearing somebody talk on my speakers about some game."
=====================
That's how I feel too.
Along the same lines, when I hear for the first time the voice of another WoW player I had spent much time grouping with and with whom I had exchanged /tells, (I can't explain why) more often then not their voice and/or what they say seem to shatter the emersiveness of the game.
Additionally, whatever voice I had projected in my head for that player based on their text words, is now changed.
A few people's voices (or voice-mannerisms/sounds) are so annoying that I no longer want to have anything to do with them if they insist on using voice chat in game.
So yes, a podcast by Tobold (whose thoughts regarding MMOs I read on a daily basis) would likely shatter my mental image of him, for better or worse.
I was born in Germany, but moved to the U.S. before my first birthday.
Essi said :
"I have no interest in hearing somebody talk on my speakers about some game."
=====================
That's how I feel too.
Along the same lines, when I hear for the first time the voice of another WoW player I had spent much time grouping with and with whom I had exchanged /tells, (I can't explain why) more often then not their voice and/or what they say seem to shatter the emersiveness of the game.
Additionally, whatever voice I had projected in my head for that player based on their text words, is now changed.
A few people's voices (or voice-mannerisms/sounds) are so annoying that I no longer want to have anything to do with them if they insist on using voice chat in game.
So yes, a podcast by Tobold (whose thoughts regarding MMOs I read on a daily basis) would likely shatter my mental image of him, for better or worse.
I was born in Germany, but moved to the U.S. before my first birthday.
Hearing a persons voice comes with certain inherant pitfalls. Generally within less than half a second a listener will determine the gender of the speaker (along with any preconceived notions relating to gender that the listener may have) and it usually only takes a second or two for the listener to form a mental image of the speaker, or at least some opinion as to their personality. This is accepted knowledge in the field of voice user interface design, and it is something you have to work with - a lot of effort goes into choosing the correct voice for an application, one that portrays the personality that is desired.
So to an extent, what Brent said is correct. The problem is that in a lot of cases that mental image is often no reflection on reality and is a poor way to judge someones character.
Voice has its place, its easier to take in and digest content given via voice while doing other things. Emotion is a lot easier to convey via voice, and it certainly a faster method of communication. But it does lend itself to certain impermanence and anecdotal qualities.
The written word on the other hand suffers from a remarkable ability to be misinterpreted, due in part to the lack of 'tone' or emotion but also because it is a lot easier to use it poorly or have it taken out of context.
The written word has a permance that the spoken word has a lot more trouble attaining. Stupid things you've written have a much greater tendancy to come back and bite you, even years later. It also allows a writer to 'craft' their persona so that a readers opinion is more directed by what the writer does. This allows an author to say things to a reader that would otherwise be dismissed if they spoke the same words. Tobold's point about having a German accent may seem inconsequential, but I guarantee that 'listeners' would have formed opinions of who he is based on that alone and that would then colour their filtering of what he said afterwards.
So to an extent, what Brent said is correct. The problem is that in a lot of cases that mental image is often no reflection on reality and is a poor way to judge someones character.
Voice has its place, its easier to take in and digest content given via voice while doing other things. Emotion is a lot easier to convey via voice, and it certainly a faster method of communication. But it does lend itself to certain impermanence and anecdotal qualities.
The written word on the other hand suffers from a remarkable ability to be misinterpreted, due in part to the lack of 'tone' or emotion but also because it is a lot easier to use it poorly or have it taken out of context.
The written word has a permance that the spoken word has a lot more trouble attaining. Stupid things you've written have a much greater tendancy to come back and bite you, even years later. It also allows a writer to 'craft' their persona so that a readers opinion is more directed by what the writer does. This allows an author to say things to a reader that would otherwise be dismissed if they spoke the same words. Tobold's point about having a German accent may seem inconsequential, but I guarantee that 'listeners' would have formed opinions of who he is based on that alone and that would then colour their filtering of what he said afterwards.
As a blogger that specialises in MMO's you are ideal. You give players a view of the gaming experience they themselves can not be bothered to think about & so it takes someone like you to focus their attention span.
You do a good job of that, Tobold but do we really know anything about you?
More I feel is does your readership really care?
You do a good job of that, Tobold but do we really know anything about you?
More I feel is does your readership really care?
Honestly i don't care who you are and i don't need to know you. But still i'm checking your blog daily, simply because almost every article is interesting and worth reading.
Btw: I also prefer the plain text layout. I'm not staying long on flashy sites, because they annoy me too fast.
Greets from a fellow German
Korun
Btw: I also prefer the plain text layout. I'm not staying long on flashy sites, because they annoy me too fast.
Greets from a fellow German
Korun
I have to say, I dislike podcasts on the whole. I grew up reading more than I did watching TV, and reading feels more "natural" to me. I can control the flow of it, and the speed of my thoughts aren't limited by someone else's. As someone else said, I could read 30 minutes of spoken word in a fraction of the time.
Because you can't control the speed when listening, there is often "gaps" if you will, where there is nothing going on; That is to say, you have heard the last thing said, you have comprehended it, and you are waiting for the next thing. obviously, these are small, but they add up. When I read, I can devote my full attention to it, because I am processing things as fast as I can; There are no gaps, because I can simply read faster.
That was basically a convoluted and silly sounding paragraph trying to convey that podcasts have the eerie effect on me that they are not enough stimulus to be entertained and yet too much to have on the backburner. I have to sit there, only listening to something, and can't do anything else because my brain doesn't multi-task that way. I just sit there dumbly and listen, vaguely bored.
There is also a LOT to be said for simplicity, as the billion dollar Google empire would probably tell you. You know why Google succeeded in an internet FULL of search engines? Well, partly due to their algorithm that gets you what you want, but mostly due to the fact they are a blank white page with a bar and a logo. Look at Yahoo compared to Google. Yahoo gives you a full page of advertising and options to do, google gives you a bar to type things into to get what you want.
Your blog is the google of blogs to me. I get a blank white page, some text, and a way to find what I need. I read, scroll down, and read some more. No muss, no fuss. No running applications, no ads, no popups. Text.
Because you can't control the speed when listening, there is often "gaps" if you will, where there is nothing going on; That is to say, you have heard the last thing said, you have comprehended it, and you are waiting for the next thing. obviously, these are small, but they add up. When I read, I can devote my full attention to it, because I am processing things as fast as I can; There are no gaps, because I can simply read faster.
That was basically a convoluted and silly sounding paragraph trying to convey that podcasts have the eerie effect on me that they are not enough stimulus to be entertained and yet too much to have on the backburner. I have to sit there, only listening to something, and can't do anything else because my brain doesn't multi-task that way. I just sit there dumbly and listen, vaguely bored.
There is also a LOT to be said for simplicity, as the billion dollar Google empire would probably tell you. You know why Google succeeded in an internet FULL of search engines? Well, partly due to their algorithm that gets you what you want, but mostly due to the fact they are a blank white page with a bar and a logo. Look at Yahoo compared to Google. Yahoo gives you a full page of advertising and options to do, google gives you a bar to type things into to get what you want.
Your blog is the google of blogs to me. I get a blank white page, some text, and a way to find what I need. I read, scroll down, and read some more. No muss, no fuss. No running applications, no ads, no popups. Text.
it's not the first time that you mention your german accent so that's how i imagine your voice...
kinda like herr flck... ;)
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kinda like herr flck... ;)
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