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Thursday, December 13, 2007
The trouble with WoW loot while leveling
There has been a large multitude of Diablo-like action roleplaying games for single players in the last two years, and even several good attempts to bring that concept online with games like Mythos, Dungeon Runners, or Hellgate: London. Besides the click-to-combat system, these games are characterized by constant gathering of loot. The players are motivated by expecting loot they can use around every corner, a constant stream of upgrades. If we compare that to World of Warcraft, we can say that the end-game to some extent is also very much about loot. But while leveling up, loot plays only a minor role, and doesn't contribute all that much to player motivation. Why is that so?
There are a number of factors that prevent WoW loot to be as fun as it could be while your character is still leveling up: item levels, item material, and stats.
Items in WoW have both a minimum level and an "item level". While the minimum level tells you what level your character needs to have to wear an item, the item level tells you where you are likely to find that item. An item with item level 40 would typically drop as loot from a level 40 monster or be a reward for a level 40 quest. But the minimum level is typically 5 levels lower than the item level, so the level 40 mob drops items that a level 35 character can wear. Obviously players are interested in wearing the best gear they can, so a level 35 player would look for items with a minimum level of 35, which have item level 40. Thus to gather them by himself he would need to do level 40 quests or farm level 40 mobs. That isn't impossible, but it is hard, and it isn't the best strategy to gain the most experience points per hour. You level up much faster if you do quests of your own level or slightly below than if you do quests of higher levels, because the effort to do the harder stuff goes up faster than the xp rewards do. So if a player pursues an optimum strategy for leveling up fastest, the gear he finds will be constantly 5 levels behind.
The problem of item material is one that isn't limited to the leveling part of the game. I'm playing a mage, so I can only use cloth armor and certain types of weapons. Whenever I find leather, mail, plate, or something like an axe, the stuff is completely useless to me. I can only sell it, or disenchant it. Stats are a very similar problem. While technically nothing prevents me from wearing gear that adds to my mage's strength or agility, I would need to be downright stupid to do so. These stats don't do anything for a mage. Again this problem persists even in the end-game, although some classes suffer more than others. For example if my warrior groups with a paladin and we find two pieces of plate armor, one with bonuses to stamina and defense, the other with bonuses to intellect and healing, my warrior could only roll for the former, while the paladin could find use for both of them.
Add it all together and you arrive at a situation in which 99% of the loot that you get while leveling, either from mobs or from quests, is being sold or disenchanted. And the gear you wear is most likely bought from the auction house. Only some long quest series, group quests, or instances are likely to reward you with gear that you would actually want to wear. But there are no important game design reasons of why that has to be this way. There are a number of ways in which Blizzard could improve the fun potential of loot gathering while leveling. And while it isn't very realistic to expect them to do that for the old content, some of the improvements would be possible to implement in future expansions, as each of these adds a new leveling part to the game.
The biggest improvement possible would be to the quest rewards. The moment the game offers you a quest, the game *knows* what class you are, and thus what types of gear you could possibly use. Many quests currently offer the choice only between one to three items, what with 4 possible materials means that some classes won't get anything, while the "choice" of the other classes is predetermined. Instead of offering one piece of leather, and one piece of mail armor, the game should know that I'm a mage, and offer me two different pieces of cloth armor, for example a fire and a frost one. If I'd do the same quest with a warrior, the reward should be a choice between two pieces of plate armor, one with more defense, the other with more strength bonus. And so on. What kind of a "reward" is it if you offer a plate helmet to a mage, which is even bind on pickup? World of Warcraft quest rewards shouldn't force you to study third-party websites just to find the few quests which reward you with items you can actually wear. There is a lot of potential fun in gathering loot, and World of Warcraft should exploit that potential better.
- posted by Tobold @ 8:53 AM Permanent Link
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I completely agree with your post, I am also levelling a Mage at the moment and I find the lack of useable rewards frustrating. My saving grace is the fact that I have enchanting, so often a 1-2G vendor item will disenchant and the mats could sell for 4-5G.
All quest rewards should be in faction points, which can then be used at faction vendors.
This would help in so many ways.
This would help in so many ways.
# posted by 
: 13/12/07 10:55
: 13/12/07 10:55
Note that the lack of usable quest rewards is mostly remedied in Blood Elf/Draenei starting areas and in Outland. Quite a lot of quests have 4 or more different rewards, and there's plenty of quests.
But pre-TBC quests do suffer from this problem quite severely. At most there's 1-2 differnt quest rewards, and there are relatively few quests available. In that case, the actual quest reward is the experience points gained and/or access to the later parts of the quest chain.
But pre-TBC quests do suffer from this problem quite severely. At most there's 1-2 differnt quest rewards, and there are relatively few quests available. In that case, the actual quest reward is the experience points gained and/or access to the later parts of the quest chain.
Yes, it's really dumb to offer 2 items as quest rewards that are useless to your character, and this happens a lot.
Another thing (which I'm sure someone else mentioned recently, but I can't remember who) - what is the point of gray loot?
Another thing (which I'm sure someone else mentioned recently, but I can't remember who) - what is the point of gray loot?
# posted by : 13/12/07 12:08
: 13/12/07 12:08
what is the point of gray loot?
Roleplaying realism. :) It wouldn't be very logical if a wolf carried around 2 silver and 25 copper pieces. Instead the wolf has gray loot, lets say the [Frayed wolf ear], which sells for 2 silver and 25 copper to an NPC vendor.
Roleplaying realism. :) It wouldn't be very logical if a wolf carried around 2 silver and 25 copper pieces. Instead the wolf has gray loot, lets say the [Frayed wolf ear], which sells for 2 silver and 25 copper to an NPC vendor.
In my opinion the fundamental difference between how loot is done in WoW and how it is done in Diablo is randomness.
WoW is based around preset rewards for quests and preset loot tables for mobs.
This basically means that you have to research 3rd party sites unless you want risking missing the reward that will have no replacement in the foreseable future (such as one quest reward green lether belt with high AC for tanking druid that didn't see replacement [for me] for a long while until latest patch and belt bought for badges).
In Diablo (and at least some other action MMORPGs) the point of the loot is that it is totally random (but there's more of that loot -- and there still are exceptions such as set items). So often times you get useless stuff but on the flip side there's [almost] always a chance to receive something better than what you have [for whatever goal you have in mind -- such as receiving item with 2 more agility and 10 less spirit in case when you couldn't care less about spirit]. This is in contrast with WoW where, for example, you know in advance that nothing in instance XYZ drops anything you could possibly want -- even if the item level on those items is higher than what you have.
Personally I'm more than a little surprised why WoW is so bent on giving out only hand-designed items (with a few exceptions) -- continually causing what is known "class itemization problems" and "pigeonholing".
Though that could be related to game balancing -- I imagine it's a lot easier to balance encounter when you know beforehand that by this point everyone and his mother should be wearing their T4 (T5, T26, whatever) set. There's no risk that someone would specifically hunt e.g. items with agility/dodge/defense and achieve 100% avoidance.
WoW is based around preset rewards for quests and preset loot tables for mobs.
This basically means that you have to research 3rd party sites unless you want risking missing the reward that will have no replacement in the foreseable future (such as one quest reward green lether belt with high AC for tanking druid that didn't see replacement [for me] for a long while until latest patch and belt bought for badges).
In Diablo (and at least some other action MMORPGs) the point of the loot is that it is totally random (but there's more of that loot -- and there still are exceptions such as set items). So often times you get useless stuff but on the flip side there's [almost] always a chance to receive something better than what you have [for whatever goal you have in mind -- such as receiving item with 2 more agility and 10 less spirit in case when you couldn't care less about spirit]. This is in contrast with WoW where, for example, you know in advance that nothing in instance XYZ drops anything you could possibly want -- even if the item level on those items is higher than what you have.
Personally I'm more than a little surprised why WoW is so bent on giving out only hand-designed items (with a few exceptions) -- continually causing what is known "class itemization problems" and "pigeonholing".
Though that could be related to game balancing -- I imagine it's a lot easier to balance encounter when you know beforehand that by this point everyone and his mother should be wearing their T4 (T5, T26, whatever) set. There's no risk that someone would specifically hunt e.g. items with agility/dodge/defense and achieve 100% avoidance.
Great post! I hadn't given it much thought, but yeah, the system needs significant tweaking, and could/should be a lot better. It's fun when something green or blue drops, and it'd feel like less of a grind to 70 if they increased the drop rate (especially in the non-Outlands areas). Then I wouldn't mind if I could only use 1/10 of the green/blue items. Right now it feels more like about 1/20 is useable by one's class.
# posted by : 13/12/07 15:04
: 13/12/07 15:04
The reason why things are the way they are is control over cash flow and enchanting while leveling.
Blizz has to make sure that enchanters while leveling will see a certain volume of green+ gear that they will not want to use to make leveling enchanting seemless.
While I think some tuning could help I don't think it's all that broken tbh.
The other thing is that you play the leveling game with a 2 year endgame perspective. Really while leveling gear used to and I think should matter very little.
When you hit endgame the focus of progression through levels flips over to progression through gear and the gearing up is a massive thing. Not surprisingly endgame 5-man and further loot is much less "wasteful" on average than the leveling loot. (And enchanters have maxed out the profession by then).
I think the problem is that after living long lives at level cap people transfer their gearing expectations from level cap to leveling. Not sure what Blizzard can do to keep enchanting something that you can level sensibly.
I actually think the system is good. If people _want_ to minmax their leveling they can use the AH. Else you can just level and be happy.
Blizz has to make sure that enchanters while leveling will see a certain volume of green+ gear that they will not want to use to make leveling enchanting seemless.
While I think some tuning could help I don't think it's all that broken tbh.
The other thing is that you play the leveling game with a 2 year endgame perspective. Really while leveling gear used to and I think should matter very little.
When you hit endgame the focus of progression through levels flips over to progression through gear and the gearing up is a massive thing. Not surprisingly endgame 5-man and further loot is much less "wasteful" on average than the leveling loot. (And enchanters have maxed out the profession by then).
I think the problem is that after living long lives at level cap people transfer their gearing expectations from level cap to leveling. Not sure what Blizzard can do to keep enchanting something that you can level sensibly.
I actually think the system is good. If people _want_ to minmax their leveling they can use the AH. Else you can just level and be happy.
# posted by : 13/12/07 15:22
: 13/12/07 15:22
"The other thing is that you play the leveling game with a 2 year endgame perspective. Really while leveling gear used to and I think should matter very little.
When you hit endgame the focus of progression through levels flips over to progression through gear and the gearing up is a massive thing. Not surprisingly endgame 5-man and further loot is much less "wasteful" on average than the leveling loot. (And enchanters have maxed out the profession by then).
I think the problem is that after living long lives at level cap people transfer their gearing expectations from level cap to leveling. Not sure what Blizzard can do to keep enchanting something that you can level sensibly.
I actually think the system is good. If people _want_ to minmax their leveling they can use the AH. Else you can just level and be happy."
I think you just hit the nail on the head of the biggest problem wow has. The idea that the game doesn't begin till level cap so nothing before that is important.
I think most players whether they disagree with you or not would rather see a game that was just as viable for the altaholics or newbies. It's really sad that a new person creates a character and then gets told. "ignore everything before 70. because 70 is all that matters"
When you hit endgame the focus of progression through levels flips over to progression through gear and the gearing up is a massive thing. Not surprisingly endgame 5-man and further loot is much less "wasteful" on average than the leveling loot. (And enchanters have maxed out the profession by then).
I think the problem is that after living long lives at level cap people transfer their gearing expectations from level cap to leveling. Not sure what Blizzard can do to keep enchanting something that you can level sensibly.
I actually think the system is good. If people _want_ to minmax their leveling they can use the AH. Else you can just level and be happy."
I think you just hit the nail on the head of the biggest problem wow has. The idea that the game doesn't begin till level cap so nothing before that is important.
I think most players whether they disagree with you or not would rather see a game that was just as viable for the altaholics or newbies. It's really sad that a new person creates a character and then gets told. "ignore everything before 70. because 70 is all that matters"
Not at all, the leveling game is fine for first time levelers. There is so much to explore really.
I could agree that the leveling game may be less fine for alt levelers. Though I have leveled 6 chars to 70 and can't fault it. At least not the way most here do.
Let me play devils advocate and lets assume that every quest reward would give you a minor upgrade to what you have and it would automatically fit your class.
Would that be good? I don't think so. It would devalue the actual reward moments because fitting loot drops too often. It would also remove the part of evaluating what's right for you and the important ambiguity. And it is at odds with the fact that while leveling loot will mudflate faster than at level-cap.
Seriously I think you kind of have to not have fitting rewards all the time like WoW does it to make this work.
But then as said, I never really cared too much about loot. I care about seeing content, so if one quest doesn't give me an upgrade, I am certainly not bothered.
I can see that preferences vary. But those who care about loot have to consider how important rarity plays into value of loot upgrades and there is that inherent tension, if it's designed right.
I could agree that the leveling game may be less fine for alt levelers. Though I have leveled 6 chars to 70 and can't fault it. At least not the way most here do.
Let me play devils advocate and lets assume that every quest reward would give you a minor upgrade to what you have and it would automatically fit your class.
Would that be good? I don't think so. It would devalue the actual reward moments because fitting loot drops too often. It would also remove the part of evaluating what's right for you and the important ambiguity. And it is at odds with the fact that while leveling loot will mudflate faster than at level-cap.
Seriously I think you kind of have to not have fitting rewards all the time like WoW does it to make this work.
But then as said, I never really cared too much about loot. I care about seeing content, so if one quest doesn't give me an upgrade, I am certainly not bothered.
I can see that preferences vary. But those who care about loot have to consider how important rarity plays into value of loot upgrades and there is that inherent tension, if it's designed right.
# posted by : 13/12/07 18:23
: 13/12/07 18:23
I disagree. The leveling game for new players sucks. They for the most part don't get to run instances and learn group mechanics till level cap. It's pretty much a solo game till then.
That's not what most people buy an MMO for.
If I have to solo all the way as a new player why pay a monthly subscription. The world doesn't change. A new player might as well get a solo PC game and play that. The only benefit,till 70, they get out of thier 15 dollars a month is built in chat.
Imagine this game when level 120 is the cap. They'll just have to add a /level command for new players. Or the game will die either a slow death by the current stagnation or a quick one when someone else releases a good enough game.
That's not what most people buy an MMO for.
If I have to solo all the way as a new player why pay a monthly subscription. The world doesn't change. A new player might as well get a solo PC game and play that. The only benefit,till 70, they get out of thier 15 dollars a month is built in chat.
Imagine this game when level 120 is the cap. They'll just have to add a /level command for new players. Or the game will die either a slow death by the current stagnation or a quick one when someone else releases a good enough game.
I agree that group content is in trouble before 70 and in fact I'd argue that most group content pre-raiding at 70 is equally in trouble. I.e. I have a _very_ hard time as a non-tank to make any 5-man group for heroics (nevermind non-heroics) since 2.3.
That is a generic problem of WoW. Aged group content has no replay value. And the leveling part has this worse: There simply is hardly any instancing.
To be honest I don't see how making gear more attractive while leveling will solve the real grouping problem, namely that there simply aren't enough people in any given level bracket.
I do enjoy releveling, but it has to do with enjoying exploring new classes and how they play. And yes it is a solo game unless you find yourself a leveling buddy and duo it, which works quite well if you have the discipline to wait with that char until your buddy logs on.
I think adding a /level command is basically silly because there is a lot of content to be enjoyed despite the troubles, which have more to do with content dilution than with the way loot works.
That is a generic problem of WoW. Aged group content has no replay value. And the leveling part has this worse: There simply is hardly any instancing.
To be honest I don't see how making gear more attractive while leveling will solve the real grouping problem, namely that there simply aren't enough people in any given level bracket.
I do enjoy releveling, but it has to do with enjoying exploring new classes and how they play. And yes it is a solo game unless you find yourself a leveling buddy and duo it, which works quite well if you have the discipline to wait with that char until your buddy logs on.
I think adding a /level command is basically silly because there is a lot of content to be enjoyed despite the troubles, which have more to do with content dilution than with the way loot works.
# posted by : 13/12/07 19:12
: 13/12/07 19:12
A couple of quick comments:
Nothing more ridiculous in the loot drop paradigm than the set pieces. Pre-TBC, a warrior friend of mine successfully completed more than 60 Baron runs and the pants never dropped. Yes, this is the law of probability hard at work, but ridiculous from an immersion perspective.
Second, scalable instances would ensure that instance loot/quest completion loot was available to all characters while ensuring everyone still did the same "work" to receive the same reward.
Nothing more ridiculous in the loot drop paradigm than the set pieces. Pre-TBC, a warrior friend of mine successfully completed more than 60 Baron runs and the pants never dropped. Yes, this is the law of probability hard at work, but ridiculous from an immersion perspective.
Second, scalable instances would ensure that instance loot/quest completion loot was available to all characters while ensuring everyone still did the same "work" to receive the same reward.
# posted by : 13/12/07 19:30
: 13/12/07 19:30
First time through WoW 1.0 I noticed that loot was often not any good for me, and random drops were sometimes weird stuff like foozle ears. But the game was good enough that it didn't bother me. Nowadays, I gear up alts with crafted gear anyway, and d/e or sell most everything else. I look for quests I didn't do the first time(s) around.
Oddly, having hit Outland for the third time, I actually don't like feeling compelled to head into Outland at 58 and do the quests because I pretty much have to have the quest reward gear upgrade. It's one thing to have an occasional Warsong Supplies-type must-do quest, but for a personality like mine I am uncomfortably torn between high XP, great gear Outland quests and wishing I could just grind for leather with my level-61 and level as a byproduct without knowing that I'm being hit with a double XP + gear penalty.
In Azeroth, the basic problem is that of retrofitting the 'old' game, which is not really worth it because many people are rerolling and just pushing to 70, and for noobs the game is probably just fine. The group problem is not really solvable because the reroll population isn't much interested, and the noob population isn't enough to support instances as initially designed and implemented - and the problem is compounded by the noob often wanting to level up to join their already-level-70 friends.
I would postulate a quest-reward re-design, though, for the mid-levels on up. Include a variety of optional glyphs, kits, costumes, pets, and skins for a non-level-70 character on an account with a level-70 (so that the level-70 couldn't go back to collect them). And make the vanity awards soulbound to the account rather than the character for flexibility.
Oddly, having hit Outland for the third time, I actually don't like feeling compelled to head into Outland at 58 and do the quests because I pretty much have to have the quest reward gear upgrade. It's one thing to have an occasional Warsong Supplies-type must-do quest, but for a personality like mine I am uncomfortably torn between high XP, great gear Outland quests and wishing I could just grind for leather with my level-61 and level as a byproduct without knowing that I'm being hit with a double XP + gear penalty.
In Azeroth, the basic problem is that of retrofitting the 'old' game, which is not really worth it because many people are rerolling and just pushing to 70, and for noobs the game is probably just fine. The group problem is not really solvable because the reroll population isn't much interested, and the noob population isn't enough to support instances as initially designed and implemented - and the problem is compounded by the noob often wanting to level up to join their already-level-70 friends.
I would postulate a quest-reward re-design, though, for the mid-levels on up. Include a variety of optional glyphs, kits, costumes, pets, and skins for a non-level-70 character on an account with a level-70 (so that the level-70 couldn't go back to collect them). And make the vanity awards soulbound to the account rather than the character for flexibility.
# posted by : 13/12/07 20:26
: 13/12/07 20:26
First, I like the leveling aspect of WoW. I don't have a ton of alts, but I like to think that I've seen every zone, done almost every quest, and experienced what WoW has to offer, while leveling.
That said, I think that random loot and even random quest rewards have their values. As a lower level character, you don't have a lot of cash unless its an alt. Selling that garbage green gets you some nice money at times. While it isn't fun getting some green or blue axe at level 50, when you would rather upgrade your gear as a caster... you get a nice chunk of change for selling it...or disenchanting it.
Also, if every quest reward gives you either an upgrade, or gear on par with what you already have...you would still end up with stuff you cannot use. How many different boots do you want for a level 38 hunter? It takes more than 20 quests to level from 38 to 39. Unless the stats change drastically, you end up with 4 pairs of level 38 hunter boots.
Besides, look at instances. If doing some quest rewards you with decent greens or blues, why spend the extra time in an instance? If you do 10 quests in the time it takes you to complete an instance, you just replaced half the gear you have. Without relying on others. Instead, only some quests give usable items, while for other items an instance is the only way to upgrade outside of the AH.
I know, I know. The game is older now, its harder to find groups, etc. But I think that is why the game made non-usable loot for every class in certain quests. Provides cash, enchanting mats, and a reason to visit an instance. Otherwise, you just skip everything but quests. Why visit SM when you can replace your gear by only questing? Because although it takes a little more time for a group, the reward is that much better.
Not to mention, if every quest gave you something you could use, it would also limit the world drops that are also used to make some money. Not everyone is an enchanter, and I know when I leveled my first toon, selling world drops earned me decent money. If the quest rewards are always usable, the world drops become enchanting mats, and non-enchanters are forced to sell world drops for the price of the disenchanted mats, rather than the actual stats and usefulness of the items.
Now that the game is older, and less people level, its more of a problem of the game dying, than it is a system being broken. I still play the game... but expansions are just injecting WoW with some adrenaline to keep it's heart beating for 1 more year at a time. I think Blizzard has tried to revamp lower levels by offering better quest rewards, with better stats. Not perfect, but trying to re-design a living game isn't easy.
That said, I think that random loot and even random quest rewards have their values. As a lower level character, you don't have a lot of cash unless its an alt. Selling that garbage green gets you some nice money at times. While it isn't fun getting some green or blue axe at level 50, when you would rather upgrade your gear as a caster... you get a nice chunk of change for selling it...or disenchanting it.
Also, if every quest reward gives you either an upgrade, or gear on par with what you already have...you would still end up with stuff you cannot use. How many different boots do you want for a level 38 hunter? It takes more than 20 quests to level from 38 to 39. Unless the stats change drastically, you end up with 4 pairs of level 38 hunter boots.
Besides, look at instances. If doing some quest rewards you with decent greens or blues, why spend the extra time in an instance? If you do 10 quests in the time it takes you to complete an instance, you just replaced half the gear you have. Without relying on others. Instead, only some quests give usable items, while for other items an instance is the only way to upgrade outside of the AH.
I know, I know. The game is older now, its harder to find groups, etc. But I think that is why the game made non-usable loot for every class in certain quests. Provides cash, enchanting mats, and a reason to visit an instance. Otherwise, you just skip everything but quests. Why visit SM when you can replace your gear by only questing? Because although it takes a little more time for a group, the reward is that much better.
Not to mention, if every quest gave you something you could use, it would also limit the world drops that are also used to make some money. Not everyone is an enchanter, and I know when I leveled my first toon, selling world drops earned me decent money. If the quest rewards are always usable, the world drops become enchanting mats, and non-enchanters are forced to sell world drops for the price of the disenchanted mats, rather than the actual stats and usefulness of the items.
Now that the game is older, and less people level, its more of a problem of the game dying, than it is a system being broken. I still play the game... but expansions are just injecting WoW with some adrenaline to keep it's heart beating for 1 more year at a time. I think Blizzard has tried to revamp lower levels by offering better quest rewards, with better stats. Not perfect, but trying to re-design a living game isn't easy.
Actually, there might be a game design reason for why we're constantly selling our green drops to lower level characters on the AH and buying from higher levels. Blizzard could have done that specifically to stimulate the in-game economy. In other words, we're *supposed* to get most of our gear from the AH as we're levelling up. And a lot of people, myself included, really enjoy playing the AH. (Especially since my newest alt just bought some Defias leather for 30s and sold it for 13g!)
That said, gathering loot in WoW definitely has a different feel from Diablo II. It's certainly gratifying to finally equip a new set of gear that you bought at the AH and stashed in the bank for 5 levels. But it doesn't quite compare to the satisfaction of getting a rare drop that you can use immediately.
Class-specific quest rewards would also be brilliant, especially if you could enhance your chosen spec.
That said, gathering loot in WoW definitely has a different feel from Diablo II. It's certainly gratifying to finally equip a new set of gear that you bought at the AH and stashed in the bank for 5 levels. But it doesn't quite compare to the satisfaction of getting a rare drop that you can use immediately.
Class-specific quest rewards would also be brilliant, especially if you could enhance your chosen spec.
# posted by : 13/12/07 20:38
: 13/12/07 20:38
I could understand the frustration if gear made a difference for leveling. A rogue with latest, tricked out rare or epic dagger is only marginally better than a rogue using a green drop he got six levels ago.
If you quit worrying about finding gear to equip your 30-something character that will be obsolete in five levels, you will find that you level much faster.
If you quit worrying about finding gear to equip your 30-something character that will be obsolete in five levels, you will find that you level much faster.
It's not so much how much difference it makes as the fact that the loot is so inferior that huge sections of the content get skipped. Added to the rush to level cap mentality, this makes the game less than it should be.
It amazes me that so many people can agree there is a problem but that the majority of them just shrug thier shoulders and go "so what the game doesn't really start till 70"
And then those same people start whining about he quality of players and how they don't know how to group or control aggro etc.
This problem is it is so basic and fundamental that fixing it or just retuning and changing up the leveling content regularly would probably extend the life of the game by years. But instead the'll run the level cap out so far that new players feel like they have to climb Mt Everest to really get a chance to play.
I know those who like to solo or love to grind probably don't get a thing I'm saying. But there are a lot of people that do and When some other company puts out something that is even close to what wow was at launch this game hemorrage 80 percent of it's base.
But I don't see anything on the horizon that is a threat for now.
It amazes me that so many people can agree there is a problem but that the majority of them just shrug thier shoulders and go "so what the game doesn't really start till 70"
And then those same people start whining about he quality of players and how they don't know how to group or control aggro etc.
This problem is it is so basic and fundamental that fixing it or just retuning and changing up the leveling content regularly would probably extend the life of the game by years. But instead the'll run the level cap out so far that new players feel like they have to climb Mt Everest to really get a chance to play.
I know those who like to solo or love to grind probably don't get a thing I'm saying. But there are a lot of people that do and When some other company puts out something that is even close to what wow was at launch this game hemorrage 80 percent of it's base.
But I don't see anything on the horizon that is a threat for now.
From a game design perspective giving out specific type of loot makes sense in a lot of places eg: the leather worker in town that asked you to collect wolf hides for him will make you a nice piece of leather with the spare hides he has.
What I think it can come down to is that we are driven to pick up all the available quests because of the relative sparsity of them. Why not provide a tailor in the same town with a quest to collect mystical vine that they will sew you an enchanted robe with.
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What I think it can come down to is that we are driven to pick up all the available quests because of the relative sparsity of them. Why not provide a tailor in the same town with a quest to collect mystical vine that they will sew you an enchanted robe with.
# posted by : 13/12/07 23:34
: 13/12/07 23:34<< Home
