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Wednesday, January 16, 2008
I think I owe Flying Lab money
On a larger scale we are used to measure the success of a MMORPG by the number of subscribers it attracts. On an individual scale the number of months that a particular game keeps us entertained is a more pertinent measure. Anything longer than three months I consider good enough, and anything over one year is huge success (only EQ and WoW ever did that for me). Pirates of the Burning Sea is in the "over 3 months of entertainment" category, but not in the "over 1 year" one. Which wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't already playing PotBS since August. I'm in the pre-order period where I would be expected to race to the level cap, but fact is that I can't even bother to log on every day. The game hasn't really launched yet, but is already dangerously close to the end of its useful life for me.
The logical thing to do for me would be to not buy PotBS. But that would send the wrong message. Pirates of the Burning Sea isn't a bad game, it is just lacking PvE content, and I'm not much interested in the PvP content. Yesterday's last-minute-before-release patch *removed* quests from the various starting areas, to make it less obvious that the devs initially had created only one set of quests and then copied and pasted it into all four starting areas. Now most of these quests will be only available to one or two of the four nations, so if you try another nation you're not playing the same quests again. Clever trick, but the devs had a point in that there were more than enough quests available for low level players, and culling them differently for the various nations made more sense than deleting the same quest for all of them. For all its flaws and third world UI, I enjoyed my time in PotBS, and wouldn't want to discourage other companies from making niche games like that.
So I'll buy the game next Monday, and recheck my interest level at the end of the free month. That's the least I owe them for playing the game half a year. My hope is that the economy develops new dynamics due to having more players than the closed beta. My fear is that lots of players means lots of ports under contention, making it harder and harder to avoid PvP. I do believe that negative sum PvP is probably the worst endgame option you can think off, but PotBS has exactly that: and endgame in which everybody will continuously lose ships, consumables, and outfittings and get nothing but bragging rights in return.
But then I'm playing the only class in the game that isn't PvP enabled: the freetrader. Imagine in World of Warcraft one class, lets say hunters, would be much, much weaker in raids, but much, much better in farming gold. Now imagine that guilds would say to their hunters: "we won't take you with us to raids, as you would weaken us. But you can stay in the guild and farm gold for us, handing it over to the raiders so they can pay their repair bills". If you can wrap your head around that crazy situation, you'll be ready to play a freetrader. Freetraders are considerably weaker in combat than the other three classes, so they have a harder time leveling and won't be welcome in guild PvP "raids". But they are better in the economic game, and some advanced ships can only be built by them. So hardcore guilds will want to have a couple of freetraders in their ranks, but wouldn't want really to play with them, but just expect them to provide the guild with advanced ships at below market rates. I don't think this setup is on the right way for a harmonious guild life.
I don't think many people will play Pirates of the Burning Sea for more than half a year. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't play this game at all. If you haven't played PotBS before, it certainly has a couple of months of entertainment value in it. And it is significantly different from past games like WoW, or the games expected for 2008 like AoC and WAR, to be considered a break from the regular fantasy MMO monotony. I'm all for highly polished mass market MMORPGs, but I wouldn't want them to be the only thing on offer.
- posted by Tobold @ 4:28 PM Permanent Link
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That's not hard to imagine at all. Many hunters in many guilds went through exactly that for a while :p
Hopefully Flying Labs will make two important changes to PotBS shortly after launch. They'll give freetraders a role in PvP that makes them useful rather than a liability, and they'll change the end-game to not just be a giant sinkhole of money loss and risk for no gain.
Hopefully Flying Labs will make two important changes to PotBS shortly after launch. They'll give freetraders a role in PvP that makes them useful rather than a liability, and they'll change the end-game to not just be a giant sinkhole of money loss and risk for no gain.
# posted by 
: 16/1/08 17:26
: 16/1/08 17:26
I think the real problem with PotBS will actually be it's PvP, in that it's not very good. The inability to 'tackle' a ship like you can in EVE is a death sentence, which is a major problem when the game uses PvP as it's main selling point.
I'm also a little surprised by you Tobold, in that you sounded so hyped for the economy of PotBS for so long, and I never understood why. Aside from not having to watch a ship mine an asteroid, how did you envision the economy in PotBS to be anything BUT a sub-par version of EVE's? Sub-par in that it has less impact on the game, and from all reports that I've read (I'm not in the pre-order, was in the beta's) money is useless even two weeks into the game.
I'm also a little surprised by you Tobold, in that you sounded so hyped for the economy of PotBS for so long, and I never understood why. Aside from not having to watch a ship mine an asteroid, how did you envision the economy in PotBS to be anything BUT a sub-par version of EVE's? Sub-par in that it has less impact on the game, and from all reports that I've read (I'm not in the pre-order, was in the beta's) money is useless even two weeks into the game.
# posted by : 16/1/08 17:59
: 16/1/08 17:59
One thing on port contention, only 16 ports at any time can be in contention, so there will always be far more places to go for safety than for danger.
But, what do I know... I just recently had to concede to not buying it. I'm sad I'll be missing out at launch, after so long wanting the game, but I'm sure I'll check it out again down the road when that urge for an MMO Pirates! hits me.
But, what do I know... I just recently had to concede to not buying it. I'm sad I'll be missing out at launch, after so long wanting the game, but I'm sure I'll check it out again down the road when that urge for an MMO Pirates! hits me.
I reckon, some would find all the fighting less attractive compared to the more peaceful sailing-about economic game...
When apparently this kind of playertype is essential to the ongoing PvP, the odd thing is that freetraders aren't XP-rewarded for trading and still have to level up by ol' school fighting...
When apparently this kind of playertype is essential to the ongoing PvP, the odd thing is that freetraders aren't XP-rewarded for trading and still have to level up by ol' school fighting...
It used to bother me when people said they wouldn't play a game because of the graphics... until I became one of them.
Maybe my graphics card sucks, but PotBS looked like shiat on my machine while WoW looked utterly breathtaking. Combine that with the extreme lack of polish, and as you so perfectly described, 3rd world UI, and I couldn't make it past 2 sessions in Open Beta.
Maybe my graphics card sucks, but PotBS looked like shiat on my machine while WoW looked utterly breathtaking. Combine that with the extreme lack of polish, and as you so perfectly described, 3rd world UI, and I couldn't make it past 2 sessions in Open Beta.
# posted by : 16/1/08 21:01
: 16/1/08 21:01
I wonder if anyone would create a guild of freetraders. If they could corner the market on making the most valuable ships then I would think a freetrader guild would be able to afford its own protection in port warfare. Kinda like the East Indian trading companies.
So, EVE has plenty of industrialist/merchant characters who are active in corps. Why?
Thesis: in EVE,
1. Most characters with millions of skill points in industrialist skills will still have 1-2MSP in basic combat skills, enough to be useful in supporting roles.
2. No hard caps on how many players come to a fight.
#2 is the important one - even a freetrader could be useful. But with a limit on participation in a fight, you'd rather have a combat-specialized character with you.
So why limit the numbers in a fight? For PvE I assume it's to avoid trivializing the content (could you take down Kara faster with 100 characters instead of 40?), for PvP I assume it's a way to keep the largest groups from dominating.
I'd think PotBS will suffer from that more than EVE, since the four earth nations seem to have much more of an influence on *gameplay* than the four space empires, and there's a stronger selection pressure into nations because of peoples' own identification with them. Without a pop-cap-per-battle, the French & Spanish will always lose on English-speaking servers. But with a pop-cap-per-battle, you'll have the same selection pressures as in a WoW raid, only mo re so - you need to bring your best fighters, because you can bet the opposition will be bringing their best.
Thesis: in EVE,
1. Most characters with millions of skill points in industrialist skills will still have 1-2MSP in basic combat skills, enough to be useful in supporting roles.
2. No hard caps on how many players come to a fight.
#2 is the important one - even a freetrader could be useful. But with a limit on participation in a fight, you'd rather have a combat-specialized character with you.
So why limit the numbers in a fight? For PvE I assume it's to avoid trivializing the content (could you take down Kara faster with 100 characters instead of 40?), for PvP I assume it's a way to keep the largest groups from dominating.
I'd think PotBS will suffer from that more than EVE, since the four earth nations seem to have much more of an influence on *gameplay* than the four space empires, and there's a stronger selection pressure into nations because of peoples' own identification with them. Without a pop-cap-per-battle, the French & Spanish will always lose on English-speaking servers. But with a pop-cap-per-battle, you'll have the same selection pressures as in a WoW raid, only mo re so - you need to bring your best fighters, because you can bet the opposition will be bringing their best.
Thanks to you, K&G and other blog authors blogging about PotBS, I got into the pre-order boarding party last night.
From everything I read I was most excited about making a freetrader, producing things, making money from the auction houses and trying to build the fastest ship I could to quicky go between ports.
After playing for about 5 hours or so, I'm a little disappointed in the game.
The missions/leveling experience is HORRIBLE. I'm astounded at how many times a NPC has told me outside a tavern to meet them inside, so I go inside and bam there they are. A Short conversation later and they tell me to meet them back outside again. Each time I go between the two I get to see a nice 15 second+ loading screen. This must have happaned at least 20 to 30 times during those 5 hours! In the end, I didn't even get very much experience from it making the journey from Level 4 to Level 50 a VERY long one I'm sure.
But that's not why I'm here I say to myself. I just need to get enough levels/dabloons to start production on stuff and make money in the auction house.
Then I think to myself, so let's say I have 10 production facilities, a nice good fast ship and I'm making a killing on the auction houses. So now I have a million dabloons, big deal? I have no desire/capability of engaging directly in the PvP endgame so unless I get involved with a guild where I keep playing for social reasons, this game is offering me nothing to keep playing.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I'm afraid that as intriguing as parts of PotBS seem to be, there is just too much crap to put up with and not enough reward/game.
From everything I read I was most excited about making a freetrader, producing things, making money from the auction houses and trying to build the fastest ship I could to quicky go between ports.
After playing for about 5 hours or so, I'm a little disappointed in the game.
The missions/leveling experience is HORRIBLE. I'm astounded at how many times a NPC has told me outside a tavern to meet them inside, so I go inside and bam there they are. A Short conversation later and they tell me to meet them back outside again. Each time I go between the two I get to see a nice 15 second+ loading screen. This must have happaned at least 20 to 30 times during those 5 hours! In the end, I didn't even get very much experience from it making the journey from Level 4 to Level 50 a VERY long one I'm sure.
But that's not why I'm here I say to myself. I just need to get enough levels/dabloons to start production on stuff and make money in the auction house.
Then I think to myself, so let's say I have 10 production facilities, a nice good fast ship and I'm making a killing on the auction houses. So now I have a million dabloons, big deal? I have no desire/capability of engaging directly in the PvP endgame so unless I get involved with a guild where I keep playing for social reasons, this game is offering me nothing to keep playing.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I'm afraid that as intriguing as parts of PotBS seem to be, there is just too much crap to put up with and not enough reward/game.
I was under the impression that free traders are an integral part in initiating port contention by flooding / trading in opposing nations ports ....
# posted by : 17/1/08 19:50
: 17/1/08 19:50
Erm. I'm far from being an expert on PotBS. I just played it 1.5 weeks or so (in pre-boarding party).
However I actually chose Freetrader as the class I want to play the most *in combat*. In my eyes Freetraders get some very nice combat buffs and abilities.
Particularly in group warfare I had imagined people would *very much like* 30 min buffs such as +20% maneuvrability.
However, like I said in the beginning, I don't have *any* PvP experience in PotBS, so I'd like to hear why, for example, those buffs would be considered useless.
Also, freetraders get trader ship that has roughly as much firepower as 3rd class SoL. Plus it has a nice assortiment of bow and stern guns. I thought that may be useful in PvP as well.
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However I actually chose Freetrader as the class I want to play the most *in combat*. In my eyes Freetraders get some very nice combat buffs and abilities.
Particularly in group warfare I had imagined people would *very much like* 30 min buffs such as +20% maneuvrability.
However, like I said in the beginning, I don't have *any* PvP experience in PotBS, so I'd like to hear why, for example, those buffs would be considered useless.
Also, freetraders get trader ship that has roughly as much firepower as 3rd class SoL. Plus it has a nice assortiment of bow and stern guns. I thought that may be useful in PvP as well.
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