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Sunday, March 16, 2008
Alterac Valley premade
You probably know already that in patch 2.4 World of Warcraft will add the ability of joining the Alterac Valley battleground as a group. If you can't wait that long, you can do like me and download an addon called Preform AV Enabler. It doesn't work 100% reliable but with a bit of trial and error you can manage to get a large group of up to 40 people into the same Alterac Valley battleground. Someone on my server was promoting that idea, it being double honor weekend in AV, and I joined that AV raid and did a couple of runs with them. We won every single one of them, which is unusual, as on our server cluster Horde usually loses.
I made about 10k honor that way Friday night and Saturday afternoon. So I got my Gladiator's Slicer, a huge upgrade damage-wise to my old Crystalblade of the Draenei. And that still leaves me with nearly half of the honor I need to get the off-hand version of the same sword if I want to spec Fury.
Talking of spec, I was Mortal Strike arms spec on Friday for PvP, but then noticed that in battlegrounds my ability to deal damage wasn't strategically important. I weakened the enemy side much more by rushing in and keeping several opponents occupied for a long time. So I respec'd back to protection, but improving my build using my reader's advice. It is mainly a build useful for heroics, but taking all possible spell damage mitigation, spell interruption and deflection talents. And funnily enough it works great on battlegrounds. With my arms build I had problems killing paladins, but with this build I kill them much more easily, reflecting their damage spells back at them and interrupting their heals.
So now I got a better sword for soloing, and a spec that is useful for groups and PvP. I'll stay like that for a while, but will probably do more PvP for the second sword and some dps gear.
- posted by Tobold @ 8:07 AM Permanent Link
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Too bad it doesn't really work for Alliance due greater wait times. At the moment my records show clearly most wins for Horde due all the premades (same battle group as Tobold). Not really fun. :(
Kudos for finding use for and having fun with a supposedly bad warrior PvP spec. :)
Kudos for finding use for and having fun with a supposedly bad warrior PvP spec. :)
I have to say I'm not a big fan of premades in AV. If the matching engine forced premades to play premades it would be ok.
As it is a premade will destroy a normal random cross realm group which doesn't have the same tools in place to co-ordinate the battle (e.g. agreed leader, plan / approach that has been practiced several times, voice comms, etc.
As a result I think the fun is being lost for the normal random groups, who may start afking / logging as soon as matched against a premade, or not signing up to AV at all. Which is hardly the aim.
I hope that when the 'join as group' option is implemented in 2.4, that groups predominantly from the same server will be matched against other similar 'all-server' groups to avoid this problem
As it is a premade will destroy a normal random cross realm group which doesn't have the same tools in place to co-ordinate the battle (e.g. agreed leader, plan / approach that has been practiced several times, voice comms, etc.
As a result I think the fun is being lost for the normal random groups, who may start afking / logging as soon as matched against a premade, or not signing up to AV at all. Which is hardly the aim.
I hope that when the 'join as group' option is implemented in 2.4, that groups predominantly from the same server will be matched against other similar 'all-server' groups to avoid this problem
# posted by 
: 16/3/08 11:58
: 16/3/08 11:58
Player aggro for the win.
We are the few, the proud, the PvP-playing prot warriors...
(Tip, although you probably know this one - for considerable fun, rush for your side's assistant commander - Belinda for Alliance, Galvangar for Horde. Rush in there, and start merrily stunning healers, Intimidating Shouting, Demoralising Shouting (brutally effective), interrupting heals and so on. Tons of fun and you can slow the entire opposition team down by a couple of minutes.)
We are the few, the proud, the PvP-playing prot warriors...
(Tip, although you probably know this one - for considerable fun, rush for your side's assistant commander - Belinda for Alliance, Galvangar for Horde. Rush in there, and start merrily stunning healers, Intimidating Shouting, Demoralising Shouting (brutally effective), interrupting heals and so on. Tons of fun and you can slow the entire opposition team down by a couple of minutes.)
In 2.4, groups that enter as a group, will be facing other pre-made groups for the most part. The other three battlegrounds allow groups now (2.3) and usually match other groups. There is sort of an unknown group queue, which I'm sure will translate to AV in 2.4
However, Preform AV Enabler will still allow people to cheat the system and get games against PUGs. No one wants to play AV against an organized team, not even the organized teams. Winning for bragging rights is a waste of time.
Now supposedly, this may be good or bad news for people, Enabler groups may get matched against the other join as group players. Which would probably mean enabler groups will get rolled. Personally, I kind of hope that Enabler's functionality gets broken and the group queue comes into effect. Maybe then AV PUG warfare can return to a 50/50 split instead of Alliance always winning.
Doubt it, as it is, Horde PUGs do not win AV. Look at WarcraftRealms numbers over the last few months... abysmal 1:10 W:L ratio for the Horde... premade and PUG.
However, Preform AV Enabler will still allow people to cheat the system and get games against PUGs. No one wants to play AV against an organized team, not even the organized teams. Winning for bragging rights is a waste of time.
Now supposedly, this may be good or bad news for people, Enabler groups may get matched against the other join as group players. Which would probably mean enabler groups will get rolled. Personally, I kind of hope that Enabler's functionality gets broken and the group queue comes into effect. Maybe then AV PUG warfare can return to a 50/50 split instead of Alliance always winning.
Doubt it, as it is, Horde PUGs do not win AV. Look at WarcraftRealms numbers over the last few months... abysmal 1:10 W:L ratio for the Horde... premade and PUG.
Everytime they've tried any sort of matching system its had the weak out of putting people against the groups it was supposed to keep them out of. So My guess is if there is another premade they'll match them if not they'll match them against a pug group. And as a result it'll probably be another of thier predictable failures.
Hope I'm wrong but they've screwed it up nearly everytime they've tried to fix it. It's really sad to watch.
Hope I'm wrong but they've screwed it up nearly everytime they've tried to fix it. It's really sad to watch.
@heartless
Not sure what server you are playing on, but I really can't agree with your statement:
"and usually match other groups."
Most of the pre-made groups use scouts to ensure that they don't fight against another group, which leaves those of us who don't do pvp in groups fighting an almost endless stream of pre-mades.
I've pretty much given up on pvp due to this, its no fun to get rolled for a couple of hours straight for a couple hundred honor points.
And you can pretty much forget about getting the daily pvp quest done a lot of the time.
And now its going to start happening in AV as well... gee I can't wait *rollseyes*.
Not sure what server you are playing on, but I really can't agree with your statement:
"and usually match other groups."
Most of the pre-made groups use scouts to ensure that they don't fight against another group, which leaves those of us who don't do pvp in groups fighting an almost endless stream of pre-mades.
I've pretty much given up on pvp due to this, its no fun to get rolled for a couple of hours straight for a couple hundred honor points.
And you can pretty much forget about getting the daily pvp quest done a lot of the time.
And now its going to start happening in AV as well... gee I can't wait *rollseyes*.
# posted by : 16/3/08 22:57
: 16/3/08 22:57
I think it's telling that you didn't mention that Alterac Valley was fun (if it was), but instead focused on the reward side of doing it.
# posted by : 17/3/08 02:07
: 17/3/08 02:07
As pointed out before, join as group will stop premades from cheating the queue. This is great.
I watched a S3 Hunter with the ZA bear and some 91 dps bow run from HALF a premade. Come on now.
Or...just remove the deserter buff, so we can ALL run from premades, instead of only the premades running from them.
I watched a S3 Hunter with the ZA bear and some 91 dps bow run from HALF a premade. Come on now.
Or...just remove the deserter buff, so we can ALL run from premades, instead of only the premades running from them.
A protection warrior could cause quite a bit of damage rushing in like that. ^^
You would become the ultimate CC espcially against mob mentality. :D
Can you reflect several spells at once with spell reflect?
You would become the ultimate CC espcially against mob mentality. :D
Can you reflect several spells at once with spell reflect?
# posted by : 17/3/08 11:30
: 17/3/08 11:30
@anon
If you join AB, WSG, or EotS with a premade group using the Join As Group button, you will 75% of the time get matched to another premade group. The only time you consistently get PUGs is during off hours. I rarely have run into a premade in AB, WSG, or EotS since the semi-group queue was added.
AV, using premade groups through Preform AV enabler, never matches premades against each other because it is "rigging" the system.
Also, I've never heard of a premade using scouts to avoid other premades. Premade vs premade usually ends up with one premade just letting the other premade win. It's the most efficient way of doing it.
Or premades queue for two different BGs in the hopes that the timer will go for the other one and let them all get out of a premade vs premade.
If you join AB, WSG, or EotS with a premade group using the Join As Group button, you will 75% of the time get matched to another premade group. The only time you consistently get PUGs is during off hours. I rarely have run into a premade in AB, WSG, or EotS since the semi-group queue was added.
AV, using premade groups through Preform AV enabler, never matches premades against each other because it is "rigging" the system.
Also, I've never heard of a premade using scouts to avoid other premades. Premade vs premade usually ends up with one premade just letting the other premade win. It's the most efficient way of doing it.
Or premades queue for two different BGs in the hopes that the timer will go for the other one and let them all get out of a premade vs premade.
Also, I've never heard of a premade using scouts to avoid other premades. Premade vs premade usually ends up with one premade just letting the other premade win. It's the most efficient way of doing it.
The few times I've bothered to run with a pre-made we haven't run in to a single other pre-made 90% of the games. We have had many games where 1-2 players join on the Horde side, the rest of the team never actually joins the game and then the spots are suddenly back filled as the game starts. Those are the games that a pre-made scouted and avoided.
The few times I've bothered to run with a pre-made we haven't run in to a single other pre-made 90% of the games. We have had many games where 1-2 players join on the Horde side, the rest of the team never actually joins the game and then the spots are suddenly back filled as the game starts. Those are the games that a pre-made scouted and avoided.
The method by which AV Preform Handler currently works does not allow scouting because you can’t join as group. However, You *can* scout the other BGs. This is done by simply joining as a group and only having one person enter. For example, lets say your scout jumps into Warsong Gulch and takes a look around and sees its another premade. He lets everyone know and then everyone else leaves queue and then the leader queues the group for Arathi Basin. The scout takes this new queue and then everyone else leaves queue without joining. The leader then re-queues back for Warsong Gulch and sends the scout back there to check for a premade again.
The “solution” for fixing that problem is to not allow the scout to accept queues once he is in the Battleground. If he already has it prior to jumping in – then fine. Also, you shouldn’t be allowed to see names, classes or servers for the enemy until after the Battleground begins. This would force people to commit to joining.
The “solution” for fixing that problem is to not allow the scout to accept queues once he is in the Battleground. If he already has it prior to jumping in – then fine. Also, you shouldn’t be allowed to see names, classes or servers for the enemy until after the Battleground begins. This would force people to commit to joining.
If it's the Leader who has to queue the group up, then only the leader should get the Join The Battle prompt, and when he (or she) clicks Accept, the entire group should enter as one; no sending a scout in first to see if they're going to be up against a Premade.
If you join the queue as a group, you should enter the battle as a group, no exceptions.
If you join the queue as a group, you should enter the battle as a group, no exceptions.
sid67
I was not aware of that tactic, and I've never seen it used in any premade I've ever been part of.
I'll have to ask next time I'm in a premade.
I just ran five games with a premade in Arathi Basin last night. 100% games against other Join As Group premades. Everyone in the premade agreed that this is how it normally is on our battlegroup. We won 4/5 btw, with 3 of the premades dropping the game, so that lends credence the scout tactic.
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I was not aware of that tactic, and I've never seen it used in any premade I've ever been part of.
I'll have to ask next time I'm in a premade.
I just ran five games with a premade in Arathi Basin last night. 100% games against other Join As Group premades. Everyone in the premade agreed that this is how it normally is on our battlegroup. We won 4/5 btw, with 3 of the premades dropping the game, so that lends credence the scout tactic.
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