Tobold's Blog
Sunday, May 04, 2008
 
Deathknight is coming, Warrior for sale

I had a chat with a WoW player who told me he just sold his World of Warcraft warrior, a character with epic equipment and 262 days of /played time, for $475. And the reason he gave was that when Wrath of the Lich King comes out, he will be playing a deathknight. He said "Among my friends, I have always been the marquee warrior, the standard, 262 days played in 3 years, main tank, guildmaster, class officer, raided everything, hardcore pvper, hardcore pver and I just sold my warrior at the top of his game because I plan on playing a Death Knight". To which I replied that he got less than $2 per day played. Talk about minimum wages. And suggested that he might regret it if it turns out that warriors are still the only viable raid main tanks. But he said that he was burned out and "I've always played a warrior, my identity WAS my warrior, and it kind of frightens me to realize that because of Death Knights, for the first time money was worth more than the character at his peak." Which by the way is an excellent description of all character sales, for the seller the money is worth more than the character, and for the buyer it's the reverse.

I never sold any of my characters, and I don't plan to sell my WoW warrior. But there is definitely a feeling that deathknights are going to make my warrior obsolete, and I'm going to retire my warrior, or just keep him as sort of bank toon with alchemy skill. As mentioned above, I believe that warriors will still be an excellent choice as main tank in raiding. But I can't help but get the impression that this will be their only role left to play in this game. Protection warriors already are a sad joke in PvP and solo PvE. But as deathknights will deal more damage than even dps spec warriors, there is no good reason to play a warrior instead of a deathknight in these modes of gameplay. And in 5-man groups there is a definitive danger that every group forming will already have between 1 and 3 deathknights in it, and doesn't want to invite a warrior. If the deathknight is even half decent for tanking, as he is supposed to be, people will just use deathknight tanks. Because adding a warrior just adds one more guy rolling for the same plate loot and weapons. Warriors are already problematic, having less possible ways to play than lets say a mage, so reducing the possibilities further by introducing deathknights is going to push many warriors over the edge. I can understand why somebody would want to sell his warrior.

If you have a warrior, what are your plans for him after the expansion comes out? Do you have a job as raid tank now which you can hold onto? Will you just ignore the deathknights and solo your warrior? Do you believe you can still get into 5-man groups? How is your warrior going to play in Wrath of the Lich King?
Comments:
I'm still secretly praying that death knight, being a hero class, will be very hard to get... like the sorts of having to complete raid instances to reach. Of course knowing the trend of world of warcraft, there's little chance of that happening, so I too canceled my subscription a few days back. When the expansion is out, if the whole world isn't full of deathknights, maybe I'll come back :/.
 
How do you know a death knight will do more DPS? I think until we have hard details on death knights it is foolish to assume too much.
 
As far as I know, there's preciously little 'hard evidence' as to what Death Knights are actually going to be about and how one is going to get them.
To me all this quitting and selling characters seems just a bit premature running-around-in-panic-hand-waving.
I've been gone from the game for almost 6 months, but resubbed just recently and I'm enjoying leveling up my new Tauren Druid.
I'm looking forward to WotLK. The only complaint I have is about info Blizzard has put out so far, it seems there was a big anticipation and bang when they first announced it and then... well, nothing.
Still no release date, still no hard-info about mechanics and features. Blizzard has always been on the side of "it's ready when it's ready" but with recent merger with Activision and some comments about e-sports (and Arena servers) I'm starting to wonder if the focus is slowly shifting from making great games into some sort of puddle of normal multi-billion company CEO 'visioning' and crap.

I hope not.

Still, would it hurt to give out something else than pretty wallpapers on the WotLK site? Gameplay video preview of the DK tanking/dps:ing perhaps? PleasE?
 
I predict this post will get over 50 responses )

On a more serious note, if we look back in 5 years to when WoW began it's slow steady spiral in subscriptions - it might turn out to be the day that Death Knights entered the game.
 
Selling a 262 /played toon on the mere assumption that a class nobody really knows about yet is probably one of the more stupid things I've read about in a while.
 
Why protection paladins and feral druids didn't make that fellow sell his account?
 
On a more serious note, if we look back in 5 years to when WoW began it's slow steady spiral in subscriptions - it might turn out to be the day that Death Knights entered the game.

The good thing with this kind of soothsaying (which has been bandied around about more or less every single markant event in the game so far) is that eventually one of these will indeed turn out correct and allow you to bask in the glorious "told you so".

Even a broken clock is on time twice a day.
 

The good thing with this kind of soothsaying (which has been bandied around about more or less every single markant event in the game so far) is that eventually one of these will indeed turn out correct and allow you to bask in the glorious "told you so".

Even a broken clock is on time twice a day.


Meow, scratch scratch )
 
probably one of the more stupid things I've read about in a while.

I wouldn't say that. There probably is an even chance that Death Knights will supplant warriors (likely unintentionally). It's most likely not going to be the case, but if you were predisposed to selling a warrior character, now would be the time to do so. There's a chance your "investment" could drop dramatically once WotLK's release closes in.
 
In my opinion there's too much speculation on whether the deathknights will be be better at tanking or dps'ing than other classes.

I might be wrong here but I've always thought that the "true" classes for their role were the best at it. The hybrids can do it but not as well, or at least just on par with the true class. The deathknight seems to be a tank/melee dps hybrid and as such I doubt that it will be better than a warrior, and as for how much dps it has that's truly just speculating. It will probably be divided into different talent trees just like the warrior though.
 
I doubt that Deathknights will replace Warriors, especially Prot-Warriors.

They are supposed to be DPS/tank hybrids, so I'm guessing ~90% will be DPS-specced.

As hybrids they will compete with all DPS classes in instance groups and other hybrids in raids. Depending on how much crowd control and raid/party buffs the Deathknights will have, its the ferals/offtanks/melee shammys who should be more concerned.
 
TBH, my biggest fear is that DK's won't be good tanks. I'm hoping for an excuse to put the warrior on the shelf and bring the shaman back into the game, thus giving me a chance to see more aspects of the fights than just looking at boss crotch all night. :)
 
A lot of people seem to be wailing away, whining, making all sorts of dramatic assumptions that have no information to back them up, etc., sort of like when any big change occurs in any computer game. (and it is always annoying, computer games seem to have quite a lot of complaining attention whores, though perhaps the complaining ones are just the ones that stand out more.)(I also recognize the irony of complaining about complaining.)

On death knights, here's my guess: similar to protection paladins and bears, they will not be designed to be as flexible of tanks as warriors, they may get there eventually, or may not. They will be good enough for 5-man instances, and will help somewhat with finding tanks there.

In competition for drops, that depends how drop calculations are done, and how raid groups handle them. If lots of raid groups directly substitue warriors (and possibly paladins) for death knights, or the reverse, than there is no extra gear competetion,l except perhaps if death knights need far different stats than the other plate classes.

If death knights get squeezed into a raid, and ratios of drops remain the same, than there will be more competition between plate classes, but overall it will just take a bit longer to gear up, thanks to other classes getting drops faster. It may just work out to be a wash, as the ratio may not be perfect for raid groups, and it can be adjusted anyway.

In terms of how effective death knights will be compared to warriors, it seems that some energy has been put into making all the talent trees competetive (shadow priests, retribution paladins seem to have gotten boosts), so there is no reason to expect that warrior trees will be so inferior to death knight trees that death knights will take over all roles. If the game starts out that way, there is no reason to expect it will continue that way.
 
Of my 4 70s, my warrior is my least favorite. Mind you, I don't raid.

If I want to tank a heroic, I have my Paladin.
If I want to DPS in a heroic, I have a Warlock and a Mage (both of which bring more that DPS to a group).
If I want to PvP I can do considerably more damage on my undergeared mage.

A warrior is very dependant on gear, and my warrior doesn't have the gear. I may be deleting him for DK in the next expansion, but I haven't made any final decisions.
 
Arenas will still see many warriors, if only because warriors and rogues are the only true melee classes (except if you count retri Pallies), and there'll always be a demand for melee. And in battlegrounds, class balance is not an issue that can be resolved by individuals anyway.
 
you make it sound like someone playing a deathnight would WANT to tank.

/chuckle

no one plays a useful class role if given a choice, most of the time.
christ, most warriors are dps.
 
In defense of the guy selling his warrior too soon. Look at it from a wall street perspective, if he waits to see how well the death knight tanks and it tanks well, so does his asking price. Maybe that is his reasoning for selling now.
 
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Until it is announced otherwise. We do know a few things about the deathknight.
1.) It will not replace your character
2.) You have to complete some sort of quest at 80 to unlock it
3.) It will be a brand new character that starts at a 'higher' level.

If someone is selling their character now with the intention of playing a deathknight. They're gonna have to do a lot of work if they don't already have a level 70 when the expansion is released.
 
Doh! Does that bonehead realize he'll probably need his Warrior character to unlock the Deathknight?
 
guys, he had 262 days played on his main. i'm pretty sure he has enough time on his hands to easily level up a new toon before wotlk
 
Actually he has other level 70 characters as well. He told me he made a new account, moved the warrior to that account, and sold him then, leaving all his alts untouched. I wonder if he changed the name or server too, I wouldn't want anyone running around with my character names.
 
I think they should consider giving DKs a different armor set than plate, perhaps leather or mail. It would reduce gear competition and the associated hatreds.

The devs could just say their creaky bones can't handle plate!
 
Unless the dps specs for warriors get some kind of boost for 5 mans (ie. more utility) I'll be planning to hang up my warrior in the expansion.

I like tanking and dps but I don't raid with her. I think death knights will be at least as good as 5 man tanks (probably better) and there will be many of them.

Quite how good they will be we don't know ofc, but new classes generally start strongish to make them appealing.
 
Yes Tobold, the character was also transferred to another server and given a new name ;)

-V
 
Well, I'm not really a football fan, but when I watch a game with my friends I always marvel on how they could do a much better job than the coach. They always know the correct substitution or why the actual substitution is the wrong one.

The same applies to WoW. Is incredible that almost everyone who plays the game could do a much better job than Blizzard.

:)

Anyway I wouldn't worry about the new class. Blizzard probably had it all figured out and if they haven't, they will fix whatever that is to fix.

This is not blind faith or blizz fan-boydom but just the application of a seen pattern. They copy, they refine, they fix.

Nevertheless I have my guess: the new hero class will be a tanking class with some soloing power. People will flock to it but when they understand that it's just a class designed to make up for the lack of tanks most of them will go back to their toons. The ones who will stay will make finding a tank in game more bearable.
 
Will deathknights have spell reflect?

In all seriousness, there are skills that a warrior tank has which, unless duplicated, will be irreplaceable. I have done Heroic MrT with a warrior tank and the last boss, Kael, is almost trivial with a warrior who can spell reflect those fireballs to give that extra DPS to beat the pyro blast timer, and really make the healer's job a lot easier. I did it a few days ago with a competent Prot Paladin, and we had the hardest time in there. We spent more time on Kael than we did on the entire instance up to that point.
 
It's too early to tell on deathknight where it's place in the WoW universe will be. I tell you this though there are many tricks of the warrior that helps in tough fights, the last stand, the shield wall, the spell reflect. Sure Druids, and Pallies tank, but when you come down to it warriors are the ones people trust, why cause we have the most experience, we been the forefront of raids since the days of UBRS. Though there are good druids, and pallies out there the stigmaticism is not totally gone yet.

Even when the deathknight comes out, I might make/get one, but I will never get rid of my warrior no matter how burnt out I am. I have to much of myself invested in him
 
I have a level 48 warrior. I fully intended to get him to level 70 when I rolled him. After hearing about death knights I stopped. I now have four 70's.
 
I wonder if anyone has considered the fact that brand new players will not have the option to make a Deathknight, they'll only have warrior or paladin as the obvious 'tank classes'. New players could easily end up wasting months leveling a warrior only to discover they're completely unwanted later in the game.

You would hope that blizzard would have something in place to combat this along with avoiding obsoleting all the existing warriors, but considering blizzard's policy on obsoleting content ("we have no problem with obsoleting content and have no plan to revisit old dungeons"), you really have to worry for the poor players of level 70 warriors.
 
Maybe it's just me, or the realm I play on but, honestly, warrior tanks have become fairly scarce. We have a grand total of 2 in my current t5 guild. More than anything I see paladins as the tank du jour lately. Several druid tanks here and there but it seems like I see less and less prot warriors now a days.
 
As of today, prot warriors are the best all-around tanks. Druids are the best for pure physical damage soaking and OT threat generation when not being hit. Paladins are best for multi-mob situations.

It would be great if DK's were brought in as another specialty tank, maybe the best anti-magic tank with more than a simple spell reflect ability. Given what we know about DK's (the rune/energy system), their abilities could be well-tuned for anti-magic. Or runes could be costly to replace (like high-end gems), making them versatile but at a high cost, similar to respeccing.
 
@graktor. Without some sort of leveling command I predict WOTLK will be the point that they stop getting many new players. 1 to 70 is painful now. imagine having Azeroth and Outland between you and the "relavant" content. 1 to 80 just sounds like crawling thru glass
 
Assumptions are great. I don't get the logic in selling one of the most prized specs in WoW PvE. There is a HUGE shortage of tanks. Warriors are the #1 played class in game, but that does not make them tanks.

Anyone thinking a tank warrior will be useless in WotLK is absolutely stupid. The DK is being made into a tank, because that is exactly what this game needs. WoW doesn't need DPS and healers are actually becoming far more available. Tanks are not.

DKs aren't going to steal any spots, they are going to FILL empty ones.

This is nothing more than your typical case of burn out and the player scraping for excuses to justify an otherwise questionable action (aka selling his account).
 
DKs aren't going to steal any spots, they are going to FILL empty ones.

Only in 5-mans. In 10 and 25 mans, the only tank shortage is not having one that’s geared well enough for the content the rest of the Guild has progressed to when your main tank succumbs to burnout. It’s simple math. Five 5-man groups = five tanks. No 25 man raid has ever needed 5 tanks. Blizzard’s dungeon designers flunked basic arithmetic on this one.

That being said, this is burnout not the “oh woe is the way of the warrior crap” that guy is spouting.
 
I'll have to say that in my limited experience, raids have tended to look for warrior tanks and force the paladins (and sometimes even druids) to respec back-and-forth to tank 5-mans, but heal raids.
 
To tell you the truth i wud have never sold my character for anything.... I feel after a certain point characters become a part of me in this virtual world... strange? Idk... but still its jsut like cutting ym soul if that happpened
 
Well, Now that WotLK is out I tell you. THere's NO WAY a DK will replace a warrior tank. Warriors tank MUCH better than any ther class. Period.

As a matter of fact, my warrior was fury until just yesterday. I love tanking and DK's simply suck at it.

Remember, tanking is 80% skill. I've tanked since.... well, I don't even remember, I remember 40man level 60 raids... anyhow, I can tank better than any frost DK on my fury warrior and that's why I decided to go prot again.
 
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