Tobold's Blog
Sunday, May 25, 2008
 
Open Sunday post

The disadvantage of a discussion on a blog compared with the discussion on a forum is that the readers only get to comment on the subjects of the blog posts, they can't start new subject posts themselves. So = # # = suggested I make on "open" post on Sundays, with no subject, where readers can talk about whatever they want, and propose subjects to talk about for the rest of the week.

So here is your invitation: What would you like to talk about? Try to limit the subject range to broadly game related.
Comments:
A new MMORPG is launched. How do you decide which class you want to play?
 
If the new MMO is PVP based, I'd take a look at a stealth class (providing that's an option). If it's raid based, I'd go with a class that can stack.

On another note, I just discovered an old school browser based RPG called Monster's Den. No software or account is necessary.

http://www.kongregate.com/games/garin/monsters-den
 
Keen and Graev are already leaving Hyboria according to their recent blog post...It is titled "Final Verdict for AoC"...this post bugged me. What really got my attention was "the holy grail is out there still waiting to be found"..Sounds like a silly assumption to believe the perfect mmo is to be found. WoW, what we consider a ridiculous phenomena, holds near 10 million subscribers and I believe we all agree that it is far from perfect. Are we really looking for a perfect mmo? Cuz it ain't gonna happen.

http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=1064
 
One thing that annoys me about Keen and Graev is the way they get enthusiastic about a game before they've even laid hands on it then it seems to ultimately end in disappointment.
 
Keen and Graev's coverage of AoC has been incredibly fair for as long as I've been reading it. Even the 'Final Verdict' post emphasises how difficult a decision it was for them to call it a day.

Of course, I would say that, since I am pretty much in agreement with them, and if I do play AoC for longer than they have it is only because I have nothing else to hold my attention at the moment.

Regarding choosing a class in MMORPGs, I'm usually drawn to the unpopular, difficult to play classes. I think it is a symptom of my first MMORPG class choice, a Rogue in WoW!

I do like stealth though, but only if it is challenging, and there are opportunities to benefit from it in PvE play. I also like CC and debuffing, which is why the LotRO Burglar is pretty much ideal for me.
 
BTW, why shouldn't players have the option of starting their DK at first level if that is what they prefer?
 
Give WOW the flick and try out Eve Tobold. I know you didn't like the asteroid mining but I've been playing for 4 months and have never mined.

It's a fantastic game and is only going to get better with Empyrean Age and Ambulation.

I played WOW for 2 years and could never go back to such a shallow game after experiencing the depths of Eve.
 
I'd like to hear your views on what makes a good quest. Seeing as the "kill bla bla of this" and "get this and drop it here" seems to be hard to get away from, what can developers do to make the quests feel less repetative and more involving, in your view?
 
Ways to improve/replace the tank/nuke/heal system.
 
After having played and thought about Wow for a few years now, the thing that intrigues me is this...

I'm continuely thinking about how Blizz could add features to Wow to make it much more interesting. However, after some thought i realise that there are good reasons why they can't do that.

For example:
- why are blues bop = so it doesnt encourage gold farmers
- why dont they have pvp objectives in all zones = then population would be too thin too allow pvp
- have a player quasi-government in cities = cuz expoiters could abuse this system

I am ultimately lead to the belief that Wow is actually a very tightly organised efficient machine which is very difficult to modify (like the modern petrol engine). Which begs the questions: HAVE WE ACTUALLY ALREADY ACHIEVED THE LIMITS OF FANTASY MMO DEVELOPMENT? I say fantasy cuz Eve Online seems to have many improvements, but couldn't be implemented in a traditional fantasy MMO.
 
For example:
- why are blues bop = so it doesnt encourage gold farmers
- why dont they have pvp objectives in all zones = then population would be too thin too allow pvp
- have a player quasi-government in cities = cuz expoiters could abuse this system
>
And yet the only solution they actually came up with that hurt the farmers was Daily quests.


PVP objectives died because they took away world pvp that was causing lag and tried to force everyone to fight over things like Sandlol. I used to happily fight through the lag over auberdine and darnassus, but sand..and towers in the middle of nowhere. I don't th ink so.
Many servers had quasi governments in the form of high end raid guilds that set the server rules. Server transfers and name changes completely undermined the ability of a server to blacklist someone and punish them for unnacceptable behavior.

I think there is plenty of room for improvement. But blizzard's fixes are always worse than the problem they are trying to fix.

LFG tool being a perfect example.

The problem is blizzard has never done innovative or new. They just take someone elses idea and perfect it. Now they are the leader of the pack and everyone is looking to them to innovate themselves out of the hole they keep digging as they try to fix thier self inflicted problems.
 
LFG tool being a perfect example.

When they first implemented it, you are absolutley correct. Of course now that they got rid of the auto-joining and added back in the LFG channel, it actually turned into a considerable improvement.

The irony is that the tool likely took so long to come out because they spent so much effort on the automation and "match-making" of it. A classic mistake of trying to reinvent the wheel instead of just improving what already exists. Sometimes, it's not a broken wheel -- just a flat tire.
 
I look for a class that plays similar to the Everquest I Druid. I still play the original Everquest, but do try new games when they are released. So far, Everquest is still tops. Maybe Everquest III will finally improve upon the original.
 
Reaching the limit of fantasy MMORPG's: No, not by a long shot.

Crafting today seems very recipe oriented, Changing it to some other system may add quite a lot to the idea of crafting.

A lot of quests still seem to be of two varieties, some improvements are certainly possible there (With extra stealth, for instance, we could have sneaking around objectives, listening to people objectives, etc.)

Non-combat gameplay elements are still quite weak in a lot of these games it seems. Negotiation, resources/economy/trading, creating new skill types, and probably other areas I haven't thought of, are things that seem underdeveloped in these games.

The combat systems themselves could use some changing, Age of conan made some adjustments, there are of course others that could be made.

There are also gameplay changes that would occur if, say, leveling, loot.gear, attributes, etc. were changed, reduced in importance, or eliminated.
 
I'd personally like crafting to become more than a queued up time sink :) Maybe at least an addicting mini game where you pretend to make stuff. Or a painting profession where you actually do make stuff.
 
When they first implemented it, you are absolutley correct. Of course now that they got rid of the auto-joining and added back in the LFG channel, it actually turned into a considerable improvement.

The irony is that the tool likely took so long to come out because they spent so much effort on the automation and "match-making" of it. A classic mistake of trying to reinvent the wheel instead of just improving what already exists. Sometimes, it's not a broken wheel -- just a flat tire.


No the problem of the current LFG tool is it would have been adequate at launch. But by the time they implemented it the playerbase had turned the LFG global channel into something far more flexible and useful. then that was taken away for the less flexible tool. At that point it was doomed to be forever be a thorn in thier sides. And it seems to be blizzards motto for the last 2 years. "Give em less than they had and tell em its more"

Arenas as end game pvp that starts with battlegrounds? need I say more.
 
"Thallian said...
I'd personally like crafting to become more than a queued up time sink :) Maybe at least an addicting mini game where you pretend to make stuff. Or a painting profession where you actually do make stuff.

26/5/08 00:04"

Vanguard has a pretty awsome crafting system. The products you can make really feel like they are handcrafted. Despite the games failure to take down WoW's playerbase the game is actually getting better and would definatly interest someone who was already a EQ or EQ2 player.

~Tenmohican
 
"Give em less than they had and tell em its more"

That's not entirely a fair statement. At least in regards, to LFG. They did have the "Meeting Stones" that tried to do the same thing, but they were absolutely useless. Blizzard made some bad assumptions about why people didn't use the stones and simply expamded upon the same idea. I honestly think they were TRYING to add something, they stupidly addressed the wrong problem. They then compounded the mistake by removing the LFG channel to incent people to use the new tool.

When it comes to Battlegrounds and Arena -- I can't even begin to count the ways they screwed this up. I also have a hard time figuring out how Team Deathmatch is MORE than Team Capture the Flag. For the life of me, I don't know why they don't offer Rated Battlegrounds instead of that stupid Join as Group button. Premades should fight Premades in rated matches.
 
but the base premise was sound sid. They took away the flexible useful LFG channel and gave us an inflexible tool. So we got less functionality and they tried to tel us how much better it was.

I never tried to say they meant to do that. But over the last 4 years they've shown repeatedly that they can refine someone elses good ideas like no other company. But when they try to innovate they screw it up every time.
 
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