Tobold's Blog
Monday, August 25, 2008
 
On the WAR path

Sidenote: This is a very simple blog. I play games. I write about them. If I had fun I'm more likely to write something enthusiastic, if I got frustrated I'm more likely to write a rant. There is no agenda for or against certain games. Nor is it inconsistent to write both good and bad things about the same game, because that is how games are, they have both good and bad sides. My apologies to those simple minds who feel the need to classify me as "game X fanboi" or "game Y hater", but that is not how this works.

So while I was having a lot of fun during the Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning preview weekend, I also noticed a huge problem: Pathing. Previously I had played mostly melee characters, where that wasn't so obvious. Or maybe the problem was introduced with a recent patch. But the Archmage I tested this weekend is a ranged spellcaster, and if you hit a mob with your first spell and that mob either stands still or runs into any other direction than directly towards you, that becomes quite noticeable. So I began to experiment. The Archmage has a lot of instant cast DOTs, think warlock/healer hybrid. So instead of standing still, I started to run around and cast DOTs on mobs. And that worked far too well. Quite often I could totally confuse the mob, which due to the bad pathing routines was unable to follow me, and wasted valuable time to just stand around or run in the wrong direction.

As I was playing from US servers, but from Europe, I wondered if that was lag related. So I logged on the European servers and tested the same strategy with a level 31 shaman, and that worked as well. I could cast a spell on a cat, and as soon as the cat had run up to me, I would just run away, turn around, and fire more spells on the cat, which hadn't followed but was just standing around looking for a path. So it isn't lag, it is really the pathing routine. Back on the US servers I discovered a public quest with nobody else around, where in the second stage I had to destroy 8 bolt throwers, each guarded by a group of 4 mobs, one of them a "champion". Normally that would be hard to solo. But I just ran around a lot and cast spells on the bolt thrower, and the 4 guardians never caught me. I even managed to do that with up to three bolt throwers one directly after the other, and 12 confused mobs running after me and never finding a good path.

That is really, really bad programming, and shouldn't happen in a triple A MMORPG. Pathing, and the prevention of exploits based on it, are very important. You simply don't want ranged classes that can't be hit by mobs, because the mobs never get there. Even the most bug-ridden MMOs of the last years at least got pathing right. Mythic will have some serious work to do if they want to fix that before release.
Comments:
Not intended. There was a bug that slipped in the most recent update apparently.

http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/108321422/p1/?223

^^ That link has Mark Jacobs' official stance on it.
 
From Mark Jacobs' "Status of the Preview Weekend" post on Warhammer Alliance:

"
4) Pet AI and pathing is severely broken. The Preview Weekend patch (3.3) unfortunately borked the system. This is issue #1B for us. Even though this is a beta and new bugs/issues are to be expected, we messed up on this issue. We expect a quick turnaround on this next week. So please accept my apologies for this one, it should not have happened.
"
 
I was just coming to say what the above two posters did... now I have nothing to write.

I still think you should play on American servers, Tobold. :)

CoW needs more Euros!
 
Yeah, pathing was very annoying this weekend. It broke a couple PQs I tried because the boss would just run around and then reset.

It's also a very new bug, not a lingering issue, and thus I have confidence it will be fixed quickly.
 
LOTRO had horrible pathing too, though not nearly this bad. But even in that game it drove me crazy with mobs running around the side of my hunter traps because they are just running all over instead of at me.

It is driving me crazy. My only consolation is apparently it used to work and got broken. (heh patches causing bugs? never! :) )

I hope it's fixed, it's a dealbreaker for me it's so bad.
 
I'm sure they'll fix it, it's been fine before. Just sucks that it broke during preview weekend, so that's what a lot of people saw.
 
I agree, it's one of the things on my 'bad stuff list'. As the posters above pointed out, MBJ made a comment about it...but he says "Pet" pathing, doesn't mention the horrible MOB pathing.

Hey, Arkaneth Corsair, where you going buddy...no, no, your other right.
 
Too bad it didn't stop the pain trains from rolling me repeatedly this weekend in RvR :P
 
I'm not sure when the "Preview Weekend patch" went live, but the MOB pathing has been borked for me since I started the CE closed beta.

I can live with crappy pathing for a while, but the regular, unexplained crashes to desktop make it unplayable right now.
 
Looks like they have several weeks to fix this also.
I do not think it will be a major issue, unless going into open beta shows the same effect.
Mythic I think will not have a problem fixing it though...especially being aware.
The CTDs I heard is another story, as this has been an ongoing issue, and framerate problems from the preview.
Hopefully all patch related eh?
I think Mythic will be fine. But,I will be watching what happens, as this could be interesting.
 
Ever since the last patch, I have not had any CTD issues. I had them all the time prior to it. Curious how it cleared up for some but got worse for others.

The pathing definately got all messed up for the preview though. They probably didn't need it, but I sent in a fair number of bug reports on em ^_^
 
I'd rather have Mobs that run in circles unable to "find" a path to me, than their alternative.

They would be the Mobs that run straight down a cliff to get to you (or run up the cliff to flee when low on health), then die halfway up (or down) due to your ranged DPS, and whose body you're now unable to loot because even though the Mob could somehow scale a vertical cliff, you cannot.
 
WAR will crash and burn. My reasons:

1- It's a total bugfest. It's not just pathing.

2- The animations are absolutely terrible.

3- The graphics are just spectacular enough to make for high system requirements, but not quite spectacular enough for me to go 'whoa'.

4- The controls are terrible. My characters respond in a very clunky manner reminiscent of early DAoC.

5- RvR, the main and only real selling point of the game, is ridiculously unbalanced amongst the classes. I really thought Mythic had learned something from DAoC, but no...

WAR only confirmed by suspicions that DAoC's incredible gameplay was purely by chance. I don't think the DAoC team really knew WHY their game was so kick ass. Trials of Atlantis planted the seed in my mind, and WAR was the sunshine and water: Mythic has no idea how to make a great RvR/PvP game.

Paul Barnett can enthusiastically rant about 'beating the snot' out of each other, but it's clear he has no idea how to make that experience any fun.
 
@blackhawk:

I agree, had not read someone had my same opinion. I was shocked when I first saw the animations. Only the Greenskins looked decent but they have no melee dps & are unbalanced.

oh well, waiting on Spore for now and will stay on my MMOG break until something good comes along.
 
The pathing was fine before the last major update. Just a bug that should be taken care of with next patch.
 
@blachawk

Ouch...

And I agree here as well. I just cannot get over how old school it looks.
they better have some miracle patch for visuals and animations as otherwise, I have played this game before..Uh..
...I guess I better not repeat this line eh?

You have a blog sir? I think you need to announce your attitude to the masses sire...
 
There's an update on this topic
here:

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63427
 
As not everyone has access to that site, here is the quote from Mark Jacobs:

"(2) Monster Pathing and AI – Well, what can I say other than not even all of King Tut’s wealth could have made us feel better for messing up on this one. Well, maybe all his wealth. 
- “Yes, that monster seems to be behaving a little oddly”. Monster responsiveness was very sketchy, odd pauses and tethering issues.
- “Oh, was I supposed to go in that direction?” Pathing sometimes wonky - mobs get stuck or go in wrong direction.
- Utter confusion at times as both monsters and pets will engage and disengage seemingly at random
- Internal server optimizations last week broke the pathing/AI. And I mean really, really broke it. This truly was a “Opps, we broke this code” moment for us and we don’t have many of them.
- Going to ensure that this problem is fixed this week. As I said in my first Preview Weekend, this is a major concern for us. Fortunately we have no underwater combat in this game or some of the NPCs may have been appropriately dubbed land sharks."

 
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