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Wednesday, August 06, 2008
WAR or WotLK?
We do not know the official release date of either Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, nor of the second World of Warcraft expansion Wrath of the Lich King. But all crystal balls and other scrying devices point towards a scenario in which both of them come out before Christmas 2008. And odds are that WAR will be released a month or two before Wrath of the Lich King. End of September for WAR and end of November for WotLK is one plausible scenario. And although this scenario could still change, it now appears extremely likely that at some point in the next 6 months you will have to decide which of them you want to play. You could try to play both, but that is likely to not work very well. Or you could play neither, in which case you'll be considered a minority in the MMORPG demographic. So for millions of people decision time it is. Most of these millions will go for Wrath of the Lich King. Not even the Mythic guys themselves believe that they'll outsell WotLK. But that's just statistics and finances, and it doesn't really make your personal choice much easier. How will YOU decide?
Knowing myself, I'm aware that I take decisions like that by gut feeling on a day-by-day basis. I can't even tell you what game I'll play next weekend, because I simply haven't decided yet. But I know I'm not playing a lot of World of Warcraft right now, because I'm burned out and bored. So I am looking forward more towards WAR, because it is more different from WoW than WotLK is. There is more new content to explore in a new game than in an expansion of an old game. WAR has 20 new classes, WotLK has 1. WAR has 6 new races, each with a line of zones and quests leading them from level 1 to the level cap, WotLK has no new races, and only new zones from level 70 to 80. So I'm absolutely certain that I will buy Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning the day it comes out, and will play it as soon as possible.
But as I said, it is likely that a month or two after the WAR release there will be the WotLK release. Mike Morhaime recently mentioned that an unspecified number of players left World of Warcraft for Age of Conan, but two months later 40% of them were back. And that was *without* Blizzard releasing much extra content for WoW. So the really hard decision will come on the day that Wrath of the Lich King releases.
My prediction for myself, although I'm not absolutely sure, is that by the time Wrath of the Lich King has come out, the new game smell of Warhammer Online will have worn off a bit. There will be still new content to explore in WAR, but there also will be new content in WotLK. And then the two games offer two distinctively different promises for the endgame: The RvR PvP endgame of WAR vs. the dungeon and raid PvE of WoW. And personally I still don't like PvP. And I love dungeons. So I think that I'll put WAR on hiatus, play WotLK for several months to level up one or two characters to 80, and do all the dungeons and raids my heart desires. And at some point I'll be as bored of WotLK as I was bored of The Burning Crusade, and I might go back to WAR.
WotLK for me will probably have priority, because I don't want to miss the window in time in which WoW players will do normal difficulty level Northrend dungeons. If you tried to find a normal difficulty level Outlands dungeon group lately, you'll know what I'm talking about: At some point months after release most people have gear better than what they can earn in a normal difficulty dungeon, and then nobody wants to go there any more. Everyone just wants heroics and raids, with only the fact that the "daily heroic" is different every day bringing some diversion into an otherwise very repetitive schedule. Looking back I don't regret I took a 7-month break from TBC, I just wished I had taken that break a bit later, and still played a bit more while people were still doing normal dungeons. With WAR I don't have the feeling that I'll have to play it at some specific point in time or lose out. You don't get kicked out of a PvP group for not having the same gear level as the other players. First of all it's not even clear that there will be huge differences in gear level in the WAR endgame (I still hope that not). And then PvP is either scenarios (battlegrounds), where you simply can't get kicked out, or it is open world RvR in which the more the merrier, and any added members can at least serve as cannon fodder, even if they don't contribute much otherwise.
In the long term I really can't say whether I'll prefer WoW to WAR or the other way round, or some completely different game. But for 2008 I'm pretty sure I'll still go for World of Warcraft, and only play Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning while waiting for Wrath of the Lich King to be released. Mythic still has a hard job ahead to convince me that I secretly like PvP, I just haven't seen it done right yet. For now I still think I prefer group PvE, and that means WoW. How about you?
- posted by Tobold @ 6:30 AM Permanent Link
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My thinking is about the same as yours Tobold.
I actually have started MISSING wow now, after being gone for half a year or so now.
Wow also have my old friends waiting and its a case of I know excactly what Im going to get.
As for getting WAR at all..Depends on the buzz in the last few weeks up to release. Is it ready? Also I havent even started doing serious research on it yet (Ive promised myself to not do that with games far in the horizon - its simply too souldestroying).
So I guess we´ll see. WOW has a slight lead in my book.
I actually have started MISSING wow now, after being gone for half a year or so now.
Wow also have my old friends waiting and its a case of I know excactly what Im going to get.
As for getting WAR at all..Depends on the buzz in the last few weeks up to release. Is it ready? Also I havent even started doing serious research on it yet (Ive promised myself to not do that with games far in the horizon - its simply too souldestroying).
So I guess we´ll see. WOW has a slight lead in my book.
# posted by 
: 6/8/08 06:42
: 6/8/08 06:42
Warhammer looks much more interesting to me that AoC, however having looked at the classes, I am not immediately drawn to any of them. In Wow my main is a undead rogue, I'd love to play a melee dps on the destruction faction, however; Chaos is out because I dont want to play human, and dark elf is out because I dont want to be female. This only leave greenskin, which I am meh about. The other things that would stop me from playing Warhammer are system requirements and my concerns about imbalance in RvR. Ultimately if groups get any harder to find in Wow (due to decrease server pop.) I will leave.
# posted by : 6/8/08 07:29
: 6/8/08 07:29
Good to be the minority.
WAR does look interesting, and it may get me in for the third or fourth month instead of waiting the full six I usually cite. I've always preferred PvP PUGs, especially at lower levels where most of the players are consciously putting off leveling.
WoW's grind has always seemed particularly painful to me, and right now I don't have any toons at good *9 levels. No reason to go back, and much like burning crusade, no new content I would actually have to pay for anyways.
Either way, I probably won't be getting either before January.
WAR does look interesting, and it may get me in for the third or fourth month instead of waiting the full six I usually cite. I've always preferred PvP PUGs, especially at lower levels where most of the players are consciously putting off leveling.
WoW's grind has always seemed particularly painful to me, and right now I don't have any toons at good *9 levels. No reason to go back, and much like burning crusade, no new content I would actually have to pay for anyways.
Either way, I probably won't be getting either before January.
I’m quite sure that i won’t go back to WOW, maybe only when friends will start playing again. Reactivatet my account in may, i wasn’t exited about the game anymore. I absolutely don’t like the direction, in which Blizz takes the game. Neglecting all the fantastic old content. Kicking the lore in the mud, when legions of DKs will swarm Azeroth. More of the same repetitive uninspired content, it seems. WOW pre-TBC was a blast, but this time i think i will jump onto another hamsterwheel. I have high hopes for WAR, an the news over at Keen&Graev about the 6-man open PVE-dungeons sound very cool.
And if WAR isn’t my cup of tea, I always have my LotRO LTA…and i’m very exited about Mines of Moria, which comes this fall too and seems to have some new, intreaguing and fun ideas. So, as always, *sigh* too little time for too many games, this fall/winter I won’t get bored ;-).
And if WAR isn’t my cup of tea, I always have my LotRO LTA…and i’m very exited about Mines of Moria, which comes this fall too and seems to have some new, intreaguing and fun ideas. So, as always, *sigh* too little time for too many games, this fall/winter I won’t get bored ;-).
# posted by : 6/8/08 07:54
: 6/8/08 07:54
I was blogging about this today too.
I need a break from WoW. I've levelled 3 characters in TBC and done the rep grind/ some raiding with all of them. I enjoy the PvE side but I'm cool with coming back to it later. (Also having played the WAR beta, I know what I'm getting.)
With wanting to catch the crowd in regular instances, I'm bearing in mind that I levelled my druid about 6 months into TBC and didn't have any real issues catching up. As a healer it is always easier, and I think this'll be even more so in the next expansion with all the death knights.
I can wait for WotLK.
I need a break from WoW. I've levelled 3 characters in TBC and done the rep grind/ some raiding with all of them. I enjoy the PvE side but I'm cool with coming back to it later. (Also having played the WAR beta, I know what I'm getting.)
With wanting to catch the crowd in regular instances, I'm bearing in mind that I levelled my druid about 6 months into TBC and didn't have any real issues catching up. As a healer it is always easier, and I think this'll be even more so in the next expansion with all the death knights.
I can wait for WotLK.
WAR, since i'm pretty much disappointed in WOTLK. sure, new dungeons et al, but nothing revolutionary anymore. dungeons can be added during small updates as well, so it's TBC part deux without the flying mounts.
Definitely WAR, since I'm completely burned out on the WoW formula. WotLK isn't even a condenter for my wallet. That said, if WAR proves to be just another WoW clone or otherwise inferior I'll probably quit MMOs altogether until something truly fresh comes along.
# posted by : 6/8/08 10:29
: 6/8/08 10:29
My recent thinking has been quite influenced by the disappointment of AOC.
What I'm thinking now is that I'd like to skip the bugs, server outages, glaring balance issues that will probably plague any new MMO for the first 6 months and jump in later.
Added to that I agree that the first few months of a WoW expansion is where the fun 5 man groups are. In addition to the factors you mention, Tobold, there's also the factor that at first all the best players are 5 manning too whereas after 6 months most of them are in settled guilds and/or only logging on to raid.
So WotLK first but WAR at some point is my plan. I think if you're playing both you may as well start with the polished game then switch to the new game afterwards.
What I'm thinking now is that I'd like to skip the bugs, server outages, glaring balance issues that will probably plague any new MMO for the first 6 months and jump in later.
Added to that I agree that the first few months of a WoW expansion is where the fun 5 man groups are. In addition to the factors you mention, Tobold, there's also the factor that at first all the best players are 5 manning too whereas after 6 months most of them are in settled guilds and/or only logging on to raid.
So WotLK first but WAR at some point is my plan. I think if you're playing both you may as well start with the polished game then switch to the new game afterwards.
I'm going to buy WotLK for sure. I'm in the beta and so far all the content I've seen and all the zones I've played are absolutely gorgeous and really entertaining. It's a lot better than the first expansion was, and TBC was pretty good in its own right.
I might give WAR a try, but to be honest, I think an AoC scenario is likely: you'll lose all your friends and get stuck with a newbie character you have to level up all over again.
Furthermore, you can say X amount of new races, Y amount of new classes, but to be fair, there will still be tanking classes, healing classes and damage dealing classes as far as I know. How different can they be?
Also, it's very likely that at least at release there will still be quite a number of bugs in the game, which leads only to frustration. WoW is pretty stable now, it's mature with very few bugs still.
All in all, I still enjoy WoW as it is now, and I'm thoroughly enjoying the WotLK beta. I really see no reason to abandon my friends and my character, which I still enjoy, for something which seems to be "fresh" on the outside, but which will be inevitably more of the same anyway, at least to me.
I think WAR will be popular for a bit with the people that are burned out on WoW, but that might only last a couple of months. The people that are going to stay, the ones that Mythic should be aiming for, are those that like PvP, don't like WoW's instanced style, but enjoy RvR and open world PvP.
I might give WAR a try, but to be honest, I think an AoC scenario is likely: you'll lose all your friends and get stuck with a newbie character you have to level up all over again.
Furthermore, you can say X amount of new races, Y amount of new classes, but to be fair, there will still be tanking classes, healing classes and damage dealing classes as far as I know. How different can they be?
Also, it's very likely that at least at release there will still be quite a number of bugs in the game, which leads only to frustration. WoW is pretty stable now, it's mature with very few bugs still.
All in all, I still enjoy WoW as it is now, and I'm thoroughly enjoying the WotLK beta. I really see no reason to abandon my friends and my character, which I still enjoy, for something which seems to be "fresh" on the outside, but which will be inevitably more of the same anyway, at least to me.
I think WAR will be popular for a bit with the people that are burned out on WoW, but that might only last a couple of months. The people that are going to stay, the ones that Mythic should be aiming for, are those that like PvP, don't like WoW's instanced style, but enjoy RvR and open world PvP.
i´m sure many people will buy warhammer at release. especially those who didn´t participate in the beta nor had friends telling them how much it sux compared to the hype :)
my presumption is that the game will flop like aoc in the long run but even harder cause wotlk will make them leave quicker than from aoc.
interesting that blizzard tells us 40% of the people returned fromn aoc after the first 2 month and then announces wotlk for 2 month after war :)my common sense tells me, that blizzard has 1-2 guys in the war beta to check how much content there is and how much time
blizzard has to give wow leavers before pulling them back at maximum efficiency.
my presumption is that the game will flop like aoc in the long run but even harder cause wotlk will make them leave quicker than from aoc.
interesting that blizzard tells us 40% of the people returned fromn aoc after the first 2 month and then announces wotlk for 2 month after war :)my common sense tells me, that blizzard has 1-2 guys in the war beta to check how much content there is and how much time
blizzard has to give wow leavers before pulling them back at maximum efficiency.
# posted by : 6/8/08 11:38
: 6/8/08 11:38
WAR is preordered but so is Wrath. I am a huge Warhammer fan but seeing those very recent WAR videos, i doubt i will play this 6 months from now:
Video 1
Video 2
Video 3
The game looks nice and stuff (choose high quality when watching those) but does it warrant to leave 3 years WoW behind? Not at all, i'd rather collect old WoW co-players and prepare for a full blown 10man progression. The Wrath beta already offers a very high quality experience with the fraction of content we can expect in the final release.
I will play WAR till Wrath comes out - i still doubt we see Wrath in 2008. They're still at a slow pace to push content into beta. Content that will hold up maybe a week for the raiding folks. The meaty content and what surounds it still is very far off track. Balancing everything for 25s and 10s also adds a huge amount of work, compared to BC. We'll see.
This whole scenario is the old EQ-DAoC-situation all over again. People fled from EQ dooming it, only to return after 1 month of DAoC. I am a PvE guy, so just like back then, i don't thing the Mythic product, will offer the superior PvE experience.
Video 1
Video 2
Video 3
The game looks nice and stuff (choose high quality when watching those) but does it warrant to leave 3 years WoW behind? Not at all, i'd rather collect old WoW co-players and prepare for a full blown 10man progression. The Wrath beta already offers a very high quality experience with the fraction of content we can expect in the final release.
I will play WAR till Wrath comes out - i still doubt we see Wrath in 2008. They're still at a slow pace to push content into beta. Content that will hold up maybe a week for the raiding folks. The meaty content and what surounds it still is very far off track. Balancing everything for 25s and 10s also adds a huge amount of work, compared to BC. We'll see.
This whole scenario is the old EQ-DAoC-situation all over again. People fled from EQ dooming it, only to return after 1 month of DAoC. I am a PvE guy, so just like back then, i don't thing the Mythic product, will offer the superior PvE experience.
# posted by : 6/8/08 11:56
: 6/8/08 11:56
War, war and thrice WAAAGH.
Theres nothing left for me in WoW at present other than frustration. Frustration at the grind, and the way the whole game design forces you to play every spare moment if you want to keep up with your fellow guildies. See Tobolds comment about having to play WOTLK at launch in order not to miss out on Normal mode dungeons runs. And when you get to raiding, there's even more pressure.
WAR is attractive to me as there are fewer barriers to participation. Especially in the end game. I'm not a PvP fan either, I played 2 games of EOTS, last played AV before I hit 60 and did 5 or 6 arena games purely to help a mate get some points he needed for a new item. However I have fond memories of RvR in DAoC being a far better experiance, especially as a group of guildmates. With the added bonus of my old PVP bugbears of stun locking from stealth and AoE mezzes being heavily nerfed in WAR, I think I'll love the RvR end game as much as I used to love raiding in Wow :)
Honestly, I cannot see the appeal of WoW now I'm looking in on it from the outside. The whole having to play to a timescale in order not be left behind is a horrible mechanic, imho, and one that for me is a reason not to play to the beat of Blizzards drum, like some monkey dancing for a miserly old organ grinder :P
Theres nothing left for me in WoW at present other than frustration. Frustration at the grind, and the way the whole game design forces you to play every spare moment if you want to keep up with your fellow guildies. See Tobolds comment about having to play WOTLK at launch in order not to miss out on Normal mode dungeons runs. And when you get to raiding, there's even more pressure.
WAR is attractive to me as there are fewer barriers to participation. Especially in the end game. I'm not a PvP fan either, I played 2 games of EOTS, last played AV before I hit 60 and did 5 or 6 arena games purely to help a mate get some points he needed for a new item. However I have fond memories of RvR in DAoC being a far better experiance, especially as a group of guildmates. With the added bonus of my old PVP bugbears of stun locking from stealth and AoE mezzes being heavily nerfed in WAR, I think I'll love the RvR end game as much as I used to love raiding in Wow :)
Honestly, I cannot see the appeal of WoW now I'm looking in on it from the outside. The whole having to play to a timescale in order not be left behind is a horrible mechanic, imho, and one that for me is a reason not to play to the beat of Blizzards drum, like some monkey dancing for a miserly old organ grinder :P
I am actually most exited about the Lotro expansion(lifetimer). Mostly because as a huge LOTR fan I want to see Moria and Lothlorien but I also think the legendary weapon system looks really cool.
The WOW expansion looks just like more of the same thing to me and after not playing for about 6 months I don't see anything about it that could keep me playing when I hit 80 if I buy it.
I'm hoping to get into the WAR beta because I really don't know that much about the game, but it basically looks like WOW with more world pvp and RVR. It could be great but I feel that I need to try it.
I will definetely buy MOM, I am unsure about both WOTKL and WAR... I will probably get the one that my friends will play since none of them plays Lotro. But I don't think either WOTLK and WAR would keep me interested to long.
The WOW expansion looks just like more of the same thing to me and after not playing for about 6 months I don't see anything about it that could keep me playing when I hit 80 if I buy it.
I'm hoping to get into the WAR beta because I really don't know that much about the game, but it basically looks like WOW with more world pvp and RVR. It could be great but I feel that I need to try it.
I will definetely buy MOM, I am unsure about both WOTKL and WAR... I will probably get the one that my friends will play since none of them plays Lotro. But I don't think either WOTLK and WAR would keep me interested to long.
Hmm, well we know what we're getting with WotLK.
With WAR, I was excited to play a dps class. I thought the elves & humans looked ridiculous, hate them in WoW as well, so that pretty much left Dwares & Orcs. Well they removed their melee dps class which is what I was looking forward too. I hate being a huge tank that cannot do dmg so that leaves ranged. The Squid herder is an option however right now he sucks I hear, made of paper. Therefore, I think I will give WAR 6 months before I try it. If it is good it will just grow. If there are problems, they will come out by then and I can just not try it.
So looks like I'll most likely get back into WoW and lv up my 3rd 60. If i get bored I'll just wait on the expansion and lv up my 70 and then quit again.
With WAR, I was excited to play a dps class. I thought the elves & humans looked ridiculous, hate them in WoW as well, so that pretty much left Dwares & Orcs. Well they removed their melee dps class which is what I was looking forward too. I hate being a huge tank that cannot do dmg so that leaves ranged. The Squid herder is an option however right now he sucks I hear, made of paper. Therefore, I think I will give WAR 6 months before I try it. If it is good it will just grow. If there are problems, they will come out by then and I can just not try it.
So looks like I'll most likely get back into WoW and lv up my 3rd 60. If i get bored I'll just wait on the expansion and lv up my 70 and then quit again.
# posted by : 6/8/08 14:18
: 6/8/08 14:18
I will likely give WAR a try. The odds that I try WotLK are less, but maybe...
# posted by : 6/8/08 14:22
: 6/8/08 14:22
And now the release dat for WAR is out. 18/9.
Also, I may or I may not have just gotten an email froM GOA about joining the beta (for whats left)
Also, I may or I may not have just gotten an email froM GOA about joining the beta (for whats left)
# posted by : 6/8/08 15:09
: 6/8/08 15:09
I'm guessing I'm in the majority of players who will buy WAR on the release date. Have a great time with WAR for one to two months. Drop WAR the moment WotLK hits. Come back to WAR after all the new WotLK content is old news(about 3-5 months). Play WAR for about a year until blizzard announced it's third expansion. This will give me a few months to play WoW before the new exp hits.
I see the difference coming down to play styles and which type of end game you like, PVP or PVE. If you like the PVE raid game, WotLK has more to offer you than anyone else. War's PVE should not be discounted however, but its focus is different and makes PVE more accessible. You aren't going to have high end raid progression competition amongst guilds for bragging rights like you do in WoW, they probably won't care who killed the last boss in the 40 man dungeon first.
They will care about their city falling to the other side though. Folks who like RVR and PVP will almost definitely like War in my opinion. The only impact I see War having on WotLK is that Lake Wintergrasp, the battlegrounds and arenas may not be all that populated with the standard PVP types as they'll probably be in War. And this is a very valid conversation, because I am in beta and I can tell you that War will be very appealing to many former WoW players, especially ones like myself that have done the high end raiding then and now need something they can enjoy that isn't so demanding of their time.
They will care about their city falling to the other side though. Folks who like RVR and PVP will almost definitely like War in my opinion. The only impact I see War having on WotLK is that Lake Wintergrasp, the battlegrounds and arenas may not be all that populated with the standard PVP types as they'll probably be in War. And this is a very valid conversation, because I am in beta and I can tell you that War will be very appealing to many former WoW players, especially ones like myself that have done the high end raiding then and now need something they can enjoy that isn't so demanding of their time.
I seem to be in a minority .. I am not into PvP and raiding (or at least how WoW does both). I like to know more about War PVE content and wish they lift the beta NDA. There could be great pve questing in WAR.
# posted by : 6/8/08 15:57
: 6/8/08 15:57
At the very least, WAR is releasing at the perfect time to try something new and give it a chance to 'beat' WoW. I'm sure I will spend most of my playtime on WoTLK when that hits, but since I know WAR will be here in a little over a month, that is going to be my game of choice for the rest of the year.
Even if I only get a few good months out of it, that will surely be more interesting than the repetitive, stale content in WoW.
Even if I only get a few good months out of it, that will surely be more interesting than the repetitive, stale content in WoW.
# posted by : 6/8/08 16:48
: 6/8/08 16:48
I want Warhammer to succeed for a lot of reasons, but I fear it won't. However, I'll give it a spin and see if WoW pulls me back in.
I think Tobold did touch on an interesting point that's becoming more and more relevant with the stretched out leveling game: if you're going to level, you want to do it with everyone else.
People entering Wrath at 6-8 months past release will have a much different experience than those who level early. Getting groups for the mid (70-79) dungeons is much easier during this period.
And, of course, the dungeons at cap will be less populated as they are now, if you're a fresh 70 trying to get a normal Shattered Halls run going.
Don't fall behind the peloton.
I think Tobold did touch on an interesting point that's becoming more and more relevant with the stretched out leveling game: if you're going to level, you want to do it with everyone else.
People entering Wrath at 6-8 months past release will have a much different experience than those who level early. Getting groups for the mid (70-79) dungeons is much easier during this period.
And, of course, the dungeons at cap will be less populated as they are now, if you're a fresh 70 trying to get a normal Shattered Halls run going.
Don't fall behind the peloton.
# posted by : 6/8/08 17:09
: 6/8/08 17:09
I wish I had the conviction of some of the commenters here who can say with 100% certainty that they are done with WoW or that they have no interest in WAR. I have WAR pre-ordered so I am sure I will play it up until WotLK comes out, but once WotLK actually arrives, I am sure I will at least try it out.
Before TBC I assured myself I was bored with WoW and that TBC would be a waste of money. I ended up buying it a week after it came out.
I am fairly confident that both products will be top quality and will offer something to someone. As for me, the only honest prediction I can make is that I will try them both and just see what strikes my fancy. :)
Before TBC I assured myself I was bored with WoW and that TBC would be a waste of money. I ended up buying it a week after it came out.
I am fairly confident that both products will be top quality and will offer something to someone. As for me, the only honest prediction I can make is that I will try them both and just see what strikes my fancy. :)
I'm with Mr. Gamer. Blizzards philosophy seems to be "give em more of the same because that's what works". Fine for some, but after 3 70's with full aldor/scryer rep, and a host of epics, I'm burnt out on paying for a product that A, markets itself as the easiest MMO in history, and B, that consistanly devaluates everything a player works for; no flying mounts until level 77 comes to mind.
WAR represents something new and fresh in my mind and although I do prefer PVE to PVP, I'm not excited enough about WOTLK to jump back in (on foot) just to grind my way to 77 and then have my epic flying mount -that I worked so hard to get- returned to me as a reward for putting up with their BS. WAR will be new and that is good enough for me. for now....
WAR represents something new and fresh in my mind and although I do prefer PVE to PVP, I'm not excited enough about WOTLK to jump back in (on foot) just to grind my way to 77 and then have my epic flying mount -that I worked so hard to get- returned to me as a reward for putting up with their BS. WAR will be new and that is good enough for me. for now....
Tobold, it is true that nowadays it is difficult to get normal instance runs together. But consider that TBC has been out for over a year and a half, and we're only a few months from the next expansion. So the problem of not being able to get normal instance runs is just another case of old content being obseleted, a by-product of expansion in "vertical" games.
It would be interesting to see a graph of the popularity of an instance, as a function of time. Maybe charting the number of times that instance is run in a given month. For example, for Hellfire Ramparts (normal), the numbers could look something like:
1/07: 9,000
2/07: 16,000
3/07: 14,000
4/07: 11,000
...
7/08: 1,000
With that data, you could make better decisions about how long to stay away from WoW, but still come back when the instances you want are still popular.
It would be interesting to see a graph of the popularity of an instance, as a function of time. Maybe charting the number of times that instance is run in a given month. For example, for Hellfire Ramparts (normal), the numbers could look something like:
1/07: 9,000
2/07: 16,000
3/07: 14,000
4/07: 11,000
...
7/08: 1,000
With that data, you could make better decisions about how long to stay away from WoW, but still come back when the instances you want are still popular.
I'm really excited to quit playing WoW and start playing WAR, but I'm a little worried that not enough people from my guild will leave WoW with me to play. And the biggest thing I've found when trying to play other MMO's is that if I don't have friends/guildies and community, then I just go back to WoW so I can be social. MMO's just aren't worth the time without the social experience.
Hopefully I'll find it in WAR or I'm afraid I might end up going back to WoW even tho Wotlk looks pretty unexciting and uncreative to me. I don't see what a mandatory gear reset and some snow-covered maps really add to the game, but meh. In the end I'm just a sheep, too!
Hopefully I'll find it in WAR or I'm afraid I might end up going back to WoW even tho Wotlk looks pretty unexciting and uncreative to me. I don't see what a mandatory gear reset and some snow-covered maps really add to the game, but meh. In the end I'm just a sheep, too!
# posted by : 6/8/08 23:08
: 6/8/08 23:08
I have got to say that I hate PvP but love RvR. RvR is PvP with a purpose, it is less twitching and more startegy.RvR is to PvP as is raiding to solo grinding one is more team work while the other is more twitching and reflexes.
RvR is a chance to change your virtual world. While PvP only affects the other player.
RvR is a chance to change your virtual world. While PvP only affects the other player.
# posted by : 6/8/08 23:38
: 6/8/08 23:38
WAR has three endgame instances that will be open at launch.
http://www.massively.com/2008/08/05/dungeon-delving-in-warhammer-online/
http://www.massively.com/2008/08/05/dungeon-delving-in-warhammer-online/
I have to agree with Rob. I preordered WAR and will buy WOTLK on release. WAR will have to flop pretty hard for it not to hold my interest for two months until WOTLK comes out, at which point I'll prboabyl switch back to WOTLK.
Of course, if both are good I'll probably just end up keeping subscriptions to both. Even though you can't play as much when you are a working adult, you can at least support your habit a little better!
Of course, if both are good I'll probably just end up keeping subscriptions to both. Even though you can't play as much when you are a working adult, you can at least support your habit a little better!
The choice for me is a very easy one. It's WAR all they way.
See, I'm a PvPer and if you are like me the choice should be that easy. The years of frustration I had playing WOW because I just wasn't into the PvE raiding grind became too unbearable. It's laughable now but I was in a WOW PvP guild for a while (that's something of an oxymoron looking back now).
So for all of you that love PvE, keep your WOW accounts open and your minds open as well when you play WAR. You might be swayed and you might not.
But for the PvP lovers like me, cancel your WOW subscription ASAP. It will be the best move you make.
See, I'm a PvPer and if you are like me the choice should be that easy. The years of frustration I had playing WOW because I just wasn't into the PvE raiding grind became too unbearable. It's laughable now but I was in a WOW PvP guild for a while (that's something of an oxymoron looking back now).
So for all of you that love PvE, keep your WOW accounts open and your minds open as well when you play WAR. You might be swayed and you might not.
But for the PvP lovers like me, cancel your WOW subscription ASAP. It will be the best move you make.
# posted by : 7/8/08 09:11
: 7/8/08 09:11
Even though you mention its a pve raiding game, the gear is given out inequally for the PvPers. The WoW developers just cant decide between the good (grind) PvE and the asshat grind PvP.
# posted by : 7/8/08 10:19
: 7/8/08 10:19
I totally agree with the main differences between WAR and WoW. PvP vs PvE. That should be the basic decision when someone has to choose between the games. Which do you enjoy more?
Myself, I enjoy PvP more than PvE. I like for my opponents to be unpredictable, dangerous, and evolving. However, some of my friends I play with get very frustrated when slain by other players. They feel insignificant upon death and immediately want to quit. Hence, my only dilemma with pvp.
Dungeons and raids were extremely fun in WoW, but I grow tired of fighting monsters that do the same thing. Wash, rinse, repeat.
And, I have been kicked out of a PvP group based on gear alone. Being a new level 70 in mostly greens, because I couldn't find anyone to run dungeons with, I wanted to get into premades (back when they were possible) and rack in the tokens/honor to purchase pvp gear. However, any person that wants to win will place requirements on people desiring to join their pvp group, ie 200 resilence minimum, etc.
Myself, I enjoy PvP more than PvE. I like for my opponents to be unpredictable, dangerous, and evolving. However, some of my friends I play with get very frustrated when slain by other players. They feel insignificant upon death and immediately want to quit. Hence, my only dilemma with pvp.
Dungeons and raids were extremely fun in WoW, but I grow tired of fighting monsters that do the same thing. Wash, rinse, repeat.
And, I have been kicked out of a PvP group based on gear alone. Being a new level 70 in mostly greens, because I couldn't find anyone to run dungeons with, I wanted to get into premades (back when they were possible) and rack in the tokens/honor to purchase pvp gear. However, any person that wants to win will place requirements on people desiring to join their pvp group, ie 200 resilence minimum, etc.
# posted by : 7/8/08 15:51
: 7/8/08 15:51
what i don´t understand is why war is often called the more pvp oriented game and wow the pfe version.
it is based on the fact that "meaningfull" pvp is considered to be world changing, which is more present in war than in wow thats true.
but:
whats with those pvp people that first of all want a good, fast paced, balanced game with good mechanics and depth ?
an example would be: playing chess where each side only has 8 figures and all figures can just move like a jumper, but the winner of the match gets a cookie !!!!
versus real chess without a cookie :)
long story short: warhammer won´t even come close to wow (arena) pvp in terms
of gameplay, depth, balance and so on. it will be boring for everyone that doesn´t turn with keyboard and uses his mouse to click skills.
p.s. and yes i played war beta :)
it is based on the fact that "meaningfull" pvp is considered to be world changing, which is more present in war than in wow thats true.
but:
whats with those pvp people that first of all want a good, fast paced, balanced game with good mechanics and depth ?
an example would be: playing chess where each side only has 8 figures and all figures can just move like a jumper, but the winner of the match gets a cookie !!!!
versus real chess without a cookie :)
long story short: warhammer won´t even come close to wow (arena) pvp in terms
of gameplay, depth, balance and so on. it will be boring for everyone that doesn´t turn with keyboard and uses his mouse to click skills.
p.s. and yes i played war beta :)
# posted by : 7/8/08 18:07
: 7/8/08 18:07
"The RvR PvP endgame of WAR vs. the dungeon and raid PvE of WoW."
This....
Since S4 came out I have been to a PVE instance zero times. My play style does not warrant uninterrupted raiding, yet WoW forces me to. (e.g. Dorys Embrace)
Im hoping in WoW I can PVP and PVE, but wont be forced into either and can play as I please.
Oh and Arenas....sure their competitive, but its not the kind of PVP experience Im looking for. I want an immersive experience that feels like war and not just a cookie cutter FOTM.
This....
Since S4 came out I have been to a PVE instance zero times. My play style does not warrant uninterrupted raiding, yet WoW forces me to. (e.g. Dorys Embrace)
Im hoping in WoW I can PVP and PVE, but wont be forced into either and can play as I please.
Oh and Arenas....sure their competitive, but its not the kind of PVP experience Im looking for. I want an immersive experience that feels like war and not just a cookie cutter FOTM.
# posted by : 7/8/08 22:17
: 7/8/08 22:17
I left WoW for one reason and one reason only. I have played every major MMORPG (and some of the minor ones) released and although I had a lot of fun in WoW, I really do not like how they have taken the focus away from the CONTENT and put it on the GEAR. Simply put, WoW's PVP model of the battleground and Arena has total taken away from all of the in-game content. Content is just a vehicle to get you to the level to be able to grind your pvp/arena gear. Nothing casual about it. Biggest grind engine around. And what is it all for, best gear? More titles? a new bird? Money to buy over inflated items of prestige... War looks like it is going to be like DAOC, which of all the games I have played was probably my favorite. In DAOC when you kicked someone arse it was for more of a reason that some gear. Tactics made the fight not how good your gear was... when you total a keep or relic it helped everyone... It was a simpler time then and new games are alot more complicated and better now.. but Warhammer seems to be put old sytle kick-his-teeth in gaming in DAOC in a modern game... WoW continues to push equipment and baseline for me is the experence of the game.. I think WoW is losing sight of that....
# posted by : 7/8/08 22:29
: 7/8/08 22:29
WAR all the way. I like PvP and don't have the time or desire to grind the same boring BG's or arena matches over and over for a new piece of loot. I want real RvR where actions (or lack there of) have implications. I will still buy WotLK to play a little with my WoW friends though.
# posted by : 8/8/08 01:18
: 8/8/08 01:18
Blizzard is obviously shaken, they announced WotLK MONTHS before they wanted to in retaliation to the WAR announcement, and if you keep up with the WAR newsletters and WoW patch notes, WoW has been adding things that WAR has announced that WoW has never had in their 3-4 years of existance (Siege Weapons, Achievement System etc...) WoW addicts unfortunatly do not know that the "new content" they are getting is from the rubbernecks at Blizzard trying to release the same content first to try to peg WAR as an imitation. I played WoW, but I was really ticked off when I started noticing this, and if they are going to throw lore aside just to make WoW into a pre-WAR, I think I know what game I want to play, if Blizzard makes so much money from the subscriptions, they can at least hire some Creative Designers.
"WAR all the way. I like PvP and don't have the time or desire to grind the same boring BG's or arena matches over and over for a new piece of loot. I want real RvR where actions (or lack there of) have implications. I will still buy WotLK to play a little with my WoW friends though."
i can understand your point of view.
but the geardependency can be seen as a positive sign, too. lets see, one s4 epic has what ? 4 stam 4 crit rating... more then the s3 version and with this little upgrade arena gets imbalanced ?
it just shows how well tuned the game is nowerdays that so little upgrades have an effect on the outcome of a match.
a game where the gear is useless is boring and a game in which gear doesn´t matter in pvp is not so well balanced i guess.
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i can understand your point of view.
but the geardependency can be seen as a positive sign, too. lets see, one s4 epic has what ? 4 stam 4 crit rating... more then the s3 version and with this little upgrade arena gets imbalanced ?
it just shows how well tuned the game is nowerdays that so little upgrades have an effect on the outcome of a match.
a game where the gear is useless is boring and a game in which gear doesn´t matter in pvp is not so well balanced i guess.
# posted by : 8/8/08 10:41
: 8/8/08 10:41<< Home
