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Wednesday, September 03, 2008
Google Chrome - The price of simplicity
I was reading in the online version of a German newspaper an article about Google Chrome, the new internet browser from Google to rival Microsoft's Internet Explorer (or rather put Firefox out of business). So I click on the link given there, download and install Google Chrome, and of course due to the German link Google Chrome installs itself in German. I don't want German, I want English. I uninstall Google Chrome, surf to the English Google Chrome site, download and install Google Chrome again. Hooray! Now I got it in English. I surf to my Google personalized homepage, and find that this is now in German. What the heck! Check the same page out in IE7, where it is still in English. Fiddle with all Google Chrome and Google personalized settings for 15 minutes, but can't manage to get my Google personalized homepage back to English. I can set Google to have English as preferred language for search results, but that doesn't affect the personalized homepage. And because the page is in German now, the Google news gadgets now only give me German news instead of international news. It's frustrating! So I'm back to Internet Explorer.
Google Chrome is fast and simple, having a lot less buttons and setting than Internet Explorer. Many people will like that. But my personal experience taught me that there is a price to pay for that simplicity: The internet didn't suddenly get less complicated by switching browsers; Google Chrome just appears simpler by making educated guesses about what you might want. If it gets those guesses right, everything is fine. If it gets those guesses wrong, you're in deep shit trouble, because now everything is so well hidden under the hood that even simple settings like your preferred language become invisible. If you want any settings that are not standard, you're out of luck, and might need to resort to fiddling with a registry editor to get things like you want them.
Microsoft has often been accused of being an evil empire. But at the moment I'm not so sure if Google isn't about to become the next evil empire, and worse than Microsoft. I constantly run into problems with Google applications trying to impose their will on me, or not working. Language settings are a big problem, sometimes I get everything in Dutch, just because I live the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium. I don't even speak Dutch! Why can't Google see that I installed an English version of Windows XP and clearly indicated there that I want everything in English? Why does Google have to try to be more clever than my settings, and make guesses at what language I want to have my pages in based on my IP address? What if I took a trip to China? And programming Google gadgets in a way that they crash Internet Explorer is either sloppy work or a low blow to get people to switch to Google Chrome.
- posted by Tobold @ 8:03 AM Permanent Link
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Try using this as your personalized homepage url:
http://www.google.com/ig?hl=en
It should show in US English then.
http://www.google.com/ig?hl=en
It should show in US English then.
# posted by 
: 3/9/08 08:51
: 3/9/08 08:51
I was just having this conversation with my husband. I'm happy with my browser as it is, I'm used to it. I can't see much reason to change. But if there is good stuff there it's open source at least so maybe it'll get included into the other browsers
I use Opera browser. All the other browsers are trying to copy the features Opera already has all those years, like tab browsing to name just one.
Opera lost the game because it was not freeware. Now it is and has many more features the other browsers will try to copy in their next versions.
Opera lost the game because it was not freeware. Now it is and has many more features the other browsers will try to copy in their next versions.
"the new internet browser from Google to rival Microsoft's Internet Explorer (or rather put Firefox out of business)"
I hardly see Chrome putting Firefox out of business (ignoring the fact that there is a current agreement that Google will be funding the Mozilla Foundation until at least 2011). The bulk of ordinary users see the 'Internet' as Google, so what better opposition to target a company with such profile that has been seriously mistreating the Internet as badly as Microsoft than Google? Even if in the end Chrome makes Internet Explorer only lose 1% market share, thats a huge victory in my books.
While Google may not be perfect, they are at least trying to move technology forward instead of abusing their position and resources in some stagnating pattern.
I hardly see Chrome putting Firefox out of business (ignoring the fact that there is a current agreement that Google will be funding the Mozilla Foundation until at least 2011). The bulk of ordinary users see the 'Internet' as Google, so what better opposition to target a company with such profile that has been seriously mistreating the Internet as badly as Microsoft than Google? Even if in the end Chrome makes Internet Explorer only lose 1% market share, thats a huge victory in my books.
While Google may not be perfect, they are at least trying to move technology forward instead of abusing their position and resources in some stagnating pattern.
# posted by : 3/9/08 10:14
: 3/9/08 10:14
I haven't tried it yet but if what you say is true then perhaps Chrome really is aimed at Internet Explorer's mass market rather than the slightly more tech savvy Firefox audience.
I hope so. I am all for free enterprise and I don't think either Google or Microsoft are inherently evil. They just happen to enjoy monopoly power in their own key markets which is inevitably bad for us customers. I do think more healthy competition between these two giants of the cyber world would benefit us all.
I hope so. I am all for free enterprise and I don't think either Google or Microsoft are inherently evil. They just happen to enjoy monopoly power in their own key markets which is inevitably bad for us customers. I do think more healthy competition between these two giants of the cyber world would benefit us all.
I hate stuff that assumes that you want a default language based on for instance which OS you've got installed or where you live. I want to be able to choose that myself to 100%.
My latest irritation was Spore's creature creator which set it to Swedish by default, probably because I've got a Swedish OS. Ok, then I started looking for a setting to change the language but there simply wasn't one. I read somewhere that you could switch some files around on the hard drive to get the language you want, but that's far from optimal. I expect Spore will have the same problem.
My latest irritation was Spore's creature creator which set it to Swedish by default, probably because I've got a Swedish OS. Ok, then I started looking for a setting to change the language but there simply wasn't one. I read somewhere that you could switch some files around on the hard drive to get the language you want, but that's far from optimal. I expect Spore will have the same problem.
I tried the Chrome beta last night, and yep, it's definitely still a beta, and in fact, doesn't seem to be available for download today.
It is hard to fault Google on their approach to this though. They've developed a simple browser with lots of nice technical innovations, and it's open source, so Microsoft, Mozilla, or whoever can rip off whatever they want with impunity.
My verdict, everyone wins, and Google have got a long way to go before they match Microsoft's standard when it comes to shady business practices.
It is hard to fault Google on their approach to this though. They've developed a simple browser with lots of nice technical innovations, and it's open source, so Microsoft, Mozilla, or whoever can rip off whatever they want with impunity.
My verdict, everyone wins, and Google have got a long way to go before they match Microsoft's standard when it comes to shady business practices.
I stay with Firefox. No way to block ads in Chrome and I also hate programmes which obviously seem to know which language I want to install them in.
I wrote a bit more on my own blog: http://www.trollverk.com/tot/
I wrote a bit more on my own blog: http://www.trollverk.com/tot/
Chrome goes into a total different direction:
It's not for 1996 Netscape-like browsing, it's for Web Apps. Maybe the first Browser really built for "Web 2.0". Don't expect it to beat Opera or Firefox feature wise... see it as another (beta) piece of googles cloud computing strategie.
- Ben
It's not for 1996 Netscape-like browsing, it's for Web Apps. Maybe the first Browser really built for "Web 2.0". Don't expect it to beat Opera or Firefox feature wise... see it as another (beta) piece of googles cloud computing strategie.
- Ben
# posted by : 3/9/08 11:48
: 3/9/08 11:48
Google is always screwing around with languages :(. Because I am in the Netherlands it thinks I want dutch results for searches etc. But I dont :(.
It's quite task to set things up the way you want it.
It's quite task to set things up the way you want it.
# posted by : 3/9/08 12:27
: 3/9/08 12:27
BTW, I guess no one did read Chrome's EULA?
The important part:
11. Content license from you
11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. This license is for the sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined in the Additional Terms of those Services.
11.2 You agree that this license includes a right for Google to make such Content available to other companies, organizations or individuals with whom Google has relationships for the provision of syndicated services, and to use such Content in connection with the provision of those services.
11.3 You understand that Google, in performing the required technical steps to provide the Services to our users, may (a) transmit or distribute your Content over various public networks and in various media; and (b) make such changes to your Content as are necessary to conform and adapt that Content to the technical requirements of connecting networks, devices, services or media. You agree that this license shall permit Google to take these actions.
11.4 You confirm and warrant to Google that you have all the rights, power and authority necessary to grant the above license.
Source: http://www.google.com/chrome/eula.html
Bye bye, Chrome.
The important part:
11. Content license from you
11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. This license is for the sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined in the Additional Terms of those Services.
11.2 You agree that this license includes a right for Google to make such Content available to other companies, organizations or individuals with whom Google has relationships for the provision of syndicated services, and to use such Content in connection with the provision of those services.
11.3 You understand that Google, in performing the required technical steps to provide the Services to our users, may (a) transmit or distribute your Content over various public networks and in various media; and (b) make such changes to your Content as are necessary to conform and adapt that Content to the technical requirements of connecting networks, devices, services or media. You agree that this license shall permit Google to take these actions.
11.4 You confirm and warrant to Google that you have all the rights, power and authority necessary to grant the above license.
Source: http://www.google.com/chrome/eula.html
Bye bye, Chrome.
Can you explain what that actually means Raijin? How does that differ from other browsers?
I'm not being funny, I just don't understand the implications.
I'm not being funny, I just don't understand the implications.
Quote from TapTheHive:
In other words, by posting anything (via Chrome) to your blog(s), any forum, video site, myspace, itunes, or any other site that might happen to be supporting you, Google can use your work without paying you a dime. They can go and edit it all they want. Even further, you're claiming that you have the power to grant these rights.
http://tapthehive.com/discuss/This_Post_Not_Made_In_Chrome_Google_s_EULA_Sucks
In other words, by posting anything (via Chrome) to your blog(s), any forum, video site, myspace, itunes, or any other site that might happen to be supporting you, Google can use your work without paying you a dime. They can go and edit it all they want. Even further, you're claiming that you have the power to grant these rights.
http://tapthehive.com/discuss/This_Post_Not_Made_In_Chrome_Google_s_EULA_Sucks
Don't forget to read the Google Chrome Book.
..you have got to be kidding me...
Great post. I couldn't agree with you more about Google transitioning to 'Evil Empire' status.
..you have got to be kidding me...
Great post. I couldn't agree with you more about Google transitioning to 'Evil Empire' status.
# posted by : 3/9/08 16:32
: 3/9/08 16:32
I must have missed something, but the settings in Chrome are fairly familiar to that of Firefox/IE. Not to mention they are accessible via one click from the main screen. The little wrench on the right side. The language setting is easily set through that means. I didn't find Chrome hiding anything I needed.
The java script speed with Chrome was absolutely awesome. Easily faster than Firefox 3.0, and FF 3.0 was pretty darn fast.
The EULA isn't that scary as it is fairly standard fair for Google's advertising-based-on-what-Google-knows-about-you.
The java script speed with Chrome was absolutely awesome. Easily faster than Firefox 3.0, and FF 3.0 was pretty darn fast.
The EULA isn't that scary as it is fairly standard fair for Google's advertising-based-on-what-Google-knows-about-you.
I somewhat understand your problem Tobold, since I too prefer my software in English (even tho I'm Brazilian), and I too got a local-language version of Chrome when installed.
But it was so easy to find the option to change it, that I find really strange that you can argue that you can see Google as some sort of Evil Empire because of it.
First because the whole evil empire argument sounds stupid for me (no offence, I mean in general). Those are all big companies, out to make loads of cash, not to corrupt the humanity.
The thing here is: you, like me, have a particular preference that goes against the default for our local peers. We want things the different way, so I think it's more than ok that we have to adapt to make everything how we want.
Google choosing to look at your IP for making the language selection is just as good as looking at your Windows version; both can work against your desires (I use a english Windows at work and a portuguese at home for instance). But they are installing a software for internet browsing, so you can see why they would take that road.
That really is the price of simplicity. Maybe if you just stick to use a crude version of Linux, manually compiling and running all software you want locally, and no "internet apps" such as GMail, you can get the level of personalization you want. But who wants that?
We want simple things that "just work", and the price is that sometimes we have to face the fact that the software needs to try and guess what we want, and he may guess wrong.
Personally, I'm loving Chrome so far. It's really fast, and really stable. I can't leave Firefox because of some features and plugins that I need for work, but I'm using a lot for common browsing.
(BTW, you click the Tool buttom, Options menu, Minor Tweaks tab, Change Fonts and Language Settings, Languages tab, and choose Google Chrome Language. Not exactly "in your face", but not invisible either)
But it was so easy to find the option to change it, that I find really strange that you can argue that you can see Google as some sort of Evil Empire because of it.
First because the whole evil empire argument sounds stupid for me (no offence, I mean in general). Those are all big companies, out to make loads of cash, not to corrupt the humanity.
The thing here is: you, like me, have a particular preference that goes against the default for our local peers. We want things the different way, so I think it's more than ok that we have to adapt to make everything how we want.
Google choosing to look at your IP for making the language selection is just as good as looking at your Windows version; both can work against your desires (I use a english Windows at work and a portuguese at home for instance). But they are installing a software for internet browsing, so you can see why they would take that road.
That really is the price of simplicity. Maybe if you just stick to use a crude version of Linux, manually compiling and running all software you want locally, and no "internet apps" such as GMail, you can get the level of personalization you want. But who wants that?
We want simple things that "just work", and the price is that sometimes we have to face the fact that the software needs to try and guess what we want, and he may guess wrong.
Personally, I'm loving Chrome so far. It's really fast, and really stable. I can't leave Firefox because of some features and plugins that I need for work, but I'm using a lot for common browsing.
(BTW, you click the Tool buttom, Options menu, Minor Tweaks tab, Change Fonts and Language Settings, Languages tab, and choose Google Chrome Language. Not exactly "in your face", but not invisible either)
I'm testing Chrome to see if it's faster than Firefox; Google tends to roll out really well-tested software, so it shouldn't be half bad in any case
# posted by : 3/9/08 18:15
: 3/9/08 18:15
I'm really enjoying it.
Its the Apple vs. PC thing here; do you want an easy to use UI that flows really well, or do you prefer to tinker with it until you get exactly what you want?
Apparently this is an either/or proposition.
Meanwhile, I'm pretty much a convert from Firefox already; I really like the minimalist interface, and my god do you see how fast it loads digg?
Its the Apple vs. PC thing here; do you want an easy to use UI that flows really well, or do you prefer to tinker with it until you get exactly what you want?
Apparently this is an either/or proposition.
Meanwhile, I'm pretty much a convert from Firefox already; I really like the minimalist interface, and my god do you see how fast it loads digg?
# posted by : 3/9/08 18:42
: 3/9/08 18:42
Its the Apple vs. PC thing here; do you want an easy to use UI that flows really well, or do you prefer to tinker with it until you get exactly what you want?
----
In that case, you definitely DO NOT want an Apple. Apples are so simple, when it doesn't work, you just toss the piece of crap out the door and buy a new one! How more simple can it get?
----
In that case, you definitely DO NOT want an Apple. Apples are so simple, when it doesn't work, you just toss the piece of crap out the door and buy a new one! How more simple can it get?
Apparently I failed to make myself perfectly clear. I *did* manage to change the language of Google Chrome itself. What I couldn't do was change the language of the Google personalized homepage (www.google.com/ig) when displayed by Google Chrome. The Google Chrome tools, language settings only affect Google Chrome itself.
In this case is simply a matter of clicking on the Search Preferences, at the right of the Search box, and setting your language.
That preference is set for all google search websites (like image, blog, and classic search), and I believe is better for google to assume people want results related to their country of residence. Like I said, I think it's a matter of a company having to make choices in order to help a greater number of users.
But the Lord knows I don't want a Apple-hide-options cenario. I personally don't and won't use Apple computers exactly for that reason (before anyone says it, yes, I tried, I need to use macs for work, and I hate their guts).
I don't think Google is all perfect either, but I don't see them hiding options from the user. They should not keep those options too easy to access as well, to avoid brainless users messing with things they shouldn't. But the options are there.
That preference is set for all google search websites (like image, blog, and classic search), and I believe is better for google to assume people want results related to their country of residence. Like I said, I think it's a matter of a company having to make choices in order to help a greater number of users.
But the Lord knows I don't want a Apple-hide-options cenario. I personally don't and won't use Apple computers exactly for that reason (before anyone says it, yes, I tried, I need to use macs for work, and I hate their guts).
I don't think Google is all perfect either, but I don't see them hiding options from the user. They should not keep those options too easy to access as well, to avoid brainless users messing with things they shouldn't. But the options are there.
@raijin,
That Chrome EULA you copied is actually the standard Google services EULA for things like Blogger. It has nothing to do with the chrome browser itself.
People are just making a fuss out of it because it's google, and it's something to talk about. I'd expect them to clarify it or remove it when they have time.
Otherwise you can simply build your own Chrome browser using the open source files of Chrome and not be held to any of those terms if they're such a concern.
That Chrome EULA you copied is actually the standard Google services EULA for things like Blogger. It has nothing to do with the chrome browser itself.
People are just making a fuss out of it because it's google, and it's something to talk about. I'd expect them to clarify it or remove it when they have time.
Otherwise you can simply build your own Chrome browser using the open source files of Chrome and not be held to any of those terms if they're such a concern.
# posted by : 4/9/08 00:33
: 4/9/08 00:33
No, sorry. Google rowed back and changed the terms of service for Google Chrome now and removed the questionable parts from the EULA.
11. Content license from you
11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services.
12. Software updates
http://www.google.com/chrome/intl/en/eula_text.html
Good to see Google listens to the users.
11. Content license from you
11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services.
12. Software updates
http://www.google.com/chrome/intl/en/eula_text.html
Good to see Google listens to the users.
Tobold, I could set the language of Google Chrome just going to the Options, then to the Minor Tweaks tab and then clicking in the "Change font and language settings button".
There you could add/remove/set the languages to use for the web pages and set the language for the speller and of Google Chrome.
I think that Google Chrome is not intended to put Firefox out of the business. Simply think that Google renewed the support to Firefox until 2011.
Regards.
There you could add/remove/set the languages to use for the web pages and set the language for the speller and of Google Chrome.
I think that Google Chrome is not intended to put Firefox out of the business. Simply think that Google renewed the support to Firefox until 2011.
Regards.
# posted by : 4/9/08 16:53
: 4/9/08 16:53
You are very right that Google seems to be very averse to letting the end user do things the way they want. Remember how long they fought letting gmail users "truly delete" their mail? They still make it a two step process, which is super annoying.
And how about the whole "conversations" concept in gmail? It is one of the most commonly complained about aspects of gmail, and yet they drag their feet and won't let people see their email normally. Instead, they actually merge emails between you and another person, with the same subject, into a single file (then display it like some huge usenet thread).
I like Google, but I worry enormously about their belief in the "One True Path" that happens to represent the way THEY think things should look and feel.
As for Chrome: unless they create an option for extensions, I can't see them eliminating Firefox. And sadly, I can't see switching without extensions either.
-Cambios
Blogging about Online Gaming and Virtual Worlds:
http://www.muckbeast.com
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And how about the whole "conversations" concept in gmail? It is one of the most commonly complained about aspects of gmail, and yet they drag their feet and won't let people see their email normally. Instead, they actually merge emails between you and another person, with the same subject, into a single file (then display it like some huge usenet thread).
I like Google, but I worry enormously about their belief in the "One True Path" that happens to represent the way THEY think things should look and feel.
As for Chrome: unless they create an option for extensions, I can't see them eliminating Firefox. And sadly, I can't see switching without extensions either.
-Cambios
Blogging about Online Gaming and Virtual Worlds:
http://www.muckbeast.com
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