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Friday, October 17, 2008
WAR light
Mythic is setting an admirable pace with modifying Warhammer: Age of Reckoning to the desires of their players. Today they announced their latests surprise: A different version of the client, inofficially called "WAR light". Players were complaining about long load times and the time it took to get into the game past all those splash screens and EULAs and whatnot. And the 12 GB regular client is slow to install, and eats up lots of hard disk space, especially if you want to play on a laptop. But 90% of the game isn't even used by most players most of the time! So the idea for a lighter form of the client was born.
When you log onto WAR light, you don't enter the world of Warhammer Online, but just a series of lobby screens. You select your character on the first screen, and then are presented with a screen listing all the waiting queues for the various scenarios. This is actually an improvement over the regular client, because in WAR light you get the info of how many scenario instances are already running, how many people are queued up, and what the average wait time is. Good idea: You even see the scenarios of the other tiers, not just yours, so you can quickly switch characters if there is more action elsewhere.
Once you are in the scenario, WAR light plays just like regular WAR, only you are limited to low res textures. But honestly, for PvP you wouldn't really want to use high res textures slowing down your PC anyway. But you can't enter any part of the WAR world except for the scenarios. That can get a bit annoying if you got too much loot and your inventory is flowing over, as there is no access to auction house and mail. But the obvious advantage is that the huge amount of data from the open world, all the mobs, and quests, and public quest events, and tome of knowledge aren't needed, which makes the WAR light client far smaller and faster than the regular client.
As you can level up from 1 to 40 in WAR doing nothing but scenarios, and quite a lot of players do so, because it is the fastest method, the WAR light client covers nearly all the needs of the average player. Why install a huge game of which you don't need 90%?
DISCLAIMER: WAR light doesn't exist. It's an utter lie. A bitter parody on the current situation, where people actually play scenarios to the exclusion of everything else, and really don't use 90% of the game. But while WAR light is just fiction, we have to ask ourselves why it, or a game like it, doesn't exist. Apparently lots of people are quite content to speed-level through scenarios, without bothering to explore the huge and rich world of Warhammer Online. So why did Mythic have to bother programming those 90% of the world that only a small minority of players actually uses? They could have done WAR light in half the time and less than half the budget if they had limited themselves to scenarios and the endgame. It seems nobody is interested in the game before the level cap anyway! So why not use that?
- posted by Tobold @ 6:30 AM Permanent Link
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we have to ask ourselves why it, or a game like it, doesn't exist.
It does. It's called Battle.net. Or any FPS lobby. Or possibly something like Shattered Galaxy. However, people don't really want to pay a monthly fee for something like that.
(For a moment there, I thought Mythic really made a client that let you skip the splash screens/EULA. I was sad when it turned out not to be true.)
It does. It's called Battle.net. Or any FPS lobby. Or possibly something like Shattered Galaxy. However, people don't really want to pay a monthly fee for something like that.
(For a moment there, I thought Mythic really made a client that let you skip the splash screens/EULA. I was sad when it turned out not to be true.)
Rohan, people already do pay a monthly fee for the "endgame" or the "elder game", by design of the devs. At least a WAR Light or WoW Raid client would be honest about it. As it is, Blizzard has all but disowned the Old World of Azeroth. Maintaining a sub business model for what they actually spend dev time on is disengenuous at best.
That game actually does (or at least, did) exist, it was called Fury. The game was developed by Australian developer Auran and it was a PvP only MMO that pretty much just had a massive lobby with merchants and trainers and everything was instanced PvP scenarios.
# posted by 
: 17/10/08 08:11
: 17/10/08 08:11
you nearly got me Tobold !! :).
But you are right - at the moment such a W.A.R. Client 'light' would be more than sufficient for me to play the game.
I am a casual player and I like (need) content I have quick access to and that can be abandoned at any time (wife is calling, children are crying ....)without having serious disadvantages. So most of the times I only do scenarios, because it perfectly fits into my needed style of game access.
On the other hand everything else (RvR, normal Groupquesting, Dungeons ... ) is dead (Server: Helmgart). In my opinion because Mythic underrated the player's fixation on 'best effort/XP-Ratio'. Nearly everybody only plays scenarios - so have I to do the same, because everything else feels like playing an offline game. I don't know who is to blame - the developers who are not able to spread the communitiy all over the game's content or the community that is not willing to bring every aspect of the game to life without getting 'the best' reward.
But you are right - at the moment such a W.A.R. Client 'light' would be more than sufficient for me to play the game.
I am a casual player and I like (need) content I have quick access to and that can be abandoned at any time (wife is calling, children are crying ....)without having serious disadvantages. So most of the times I only do scenarios, because it perfectly fits into my needed style of game access.
On the other hand everything else (RvR, normal Groupquesting, Dungeons ... ) is dead (Server: Helmgart). In my opinion because Mythic underrated the player's fixation on 'best effort/XP-Ratio'. Nearly everybody only plays scenarios - so have I to do the same, because everything else feels like playing an offline game. I don't know who is to blame - the developers who are not able to spread the communitiy all over the game's content or the community that is not willing to bring every aspect of the game to life without getting 'the best' reward.
# posted by : 17/10/08 09:24
: 17/10/08 09:24
Who cares about powerlevellers and scenario-only players.
They are not the long-run players of WAR and will very soon get bored.
Alot will soon go back to WoW-arenas or GW(2?).
Still alot of people like the WAR IP and PVE, while also appreciating its PvP.
Those are the players who will still be playing the game in a few months imo.
Those are the players who are not skipping quests, follow the storyline, read their tome of knowledge from time to time.
Some keep out of some racial pairings to ba able to replay the game with another race, doing new quests. Imo those are the players who subscribe for more than a couple of months and rentabilize your developpement costs. The one you want on the long run
Most of all others will have moved to the next big thing.
/godless
They are not the long-run players of WAR and will very soon get bored.
Alot will soon go back to WoW-arenas or GW(2?).
Still alot of people like the WAR IP and PVE, while also appreciating its PvP.
Those are the players who will still be playing the game in a few months imo.
Those are the players who are not skipping quests, follow the storyline, read their tome of knowledge from time to time.
Some keep out of some racial pairings to ba able to replay the game with another race, doing new quests. Imo those are the players who subscribe for more than a couple of months and rentabilize your developpement costs. The one you want on the long run
Most of all others will have moved to the next big thing.
/godless
# posted by : 17/10/08 09:41
: 17/10/08 09:41
It doesn't exist, for now, because that would irreparably make the whole virtual world empty and just filled with max level chars.
Currently a given player might be willing to do a quest, a dungeon or whatever after his 37th scenario.
Currently a given player might be willing to do a quest, a dungeon or whatever after his 37th scenario.
It doesn't exist, for now, because that would irreparably make the whole virtual world empty and just filled with max level chars.
And that's different from current WoW (and WAR in a few months/years).. how?
It's funny because it's true.
And that's different from current WoW (and WAR in a few months/years).. how?
It's funny because it's true.
So remove the levels. Suddenly you can play together with your slow/faster leveling friends.
Developers can spend time on the content that is *really* needed most of the time (endgame content).
Suddenly PvP makes sense from lvl 1 on. You have enough players in all Tiers. You can still expierience the whole world after max lvl. etc etc etc.
Levels that increae your life by a factor of 1000 are an old relict and hopefully will not survive this decade in MMOs.
Endgame is the most fun. No MMO can survive without endgame, but even WoW can survive without the leveling game. Still the companies spend most of their money into designing the "lvl1 - maxlevel" content.
Leveling should be replaced by a tutorial. Otherwise I wouldn't change a lot - but leveling for 10days "/played" out of 100 days (and more) /played doesn't make sense at all.
Developers can spend time on the content that is *really* needed most of the time (endgame content).
Suddenly PvP makes sense from lvl 1 on. You have enough players in all Tiers. You can still expierience the whole world after max lvl. etc etc etc.
Levels that increae your life by a factor of 1000 are an old relict and hopefully will not survive this decade in MMOs.
Endgame is the most fun. No MMO can survive without endgame, but even WoW can survive without the leveling game. Still the companies spend most of their money into designing the "lvl1 - maxlevel" content.
Leveling should be replaced by a tutorial. Otherwise I wouldn't change a lot - but leveling for 10days "/played" out of 100 days (and more) /played doesn't make sense at all.
# posted by : 17/10/08 10:53
: 17/10/08 10:53
When I first started to read this I thought maybe Mythic is adopting some elements of Guild Wars. The PvE and PvP sides of it lives side-by-side and both work well.
It is on-demand loading, so only loads/downloads the parts of the game you need.
You can skip the PvE content entirely, create a max level character and head straight into the various forms of PvP that exists.
You can also go the leveling route through PvE. But here max level is rached fairly quickly and the vast majority of the PvE content is at max level. The effort to get to max level can be similar to get out of Tortage in Age of Conan.
I think Warhammer Online light would certainly work, possibly with a somewhat modified pricing model if people were not allowed to get to the PvE content.
It is on-demand loading, so only loads/downloads the parts of the game you need.
You can skip the PvE content entirely, create a max level character and head straight into the various forms of PvP that exists.
You can also go the leveling route through PvE. But here max level is rached fairly quickly and the vast majority of the PvE content is at max level. The effort to get to max level can be similar to get out of Tortage in Age of Conan.
I think Warhammer Online light would certainly work, possibly with a somewhat modified pricing model if people were not allowed to get to the PvE content.
# posted by : 17/10/08 11:32
: 17/10/08 11:32
I made a post similar like this one on my WAR guilds forum. It is a bit sad that viewed from the current state of the game, Mythic could have sufficed with making 20+ scenarios and leave it at that. That would have saved A LOT of money and time, heck WAR could have been in the shops a few years ago.
Apparently as a game company you need one or more psychologists on your team to somewhat accuratly predict player behavior given the set of variables they have available (or maybe someone with some common sense would suffice). /sarcasm
I think Mythic needs to address the problem of the empty unused world VERY quickly and decisively. This is definitly a make or break issue and could destroy all the potential (i think) the game has.
Apparently as a game company you need one or more psychologists on your team to somewhat accuratly predict player behavior given the set of variables they have available (or maybe someone with some common sense would suffice). /sarcasm
I think Mythic needs to address the problem of the empty unused world VERY quickly and decisively. This is definitly a make or break issue and could destroy all the potential (i think) the game has.
'where people actually play scenarios'
By 'people', here you presumably you mean 'people complaining about War on the internet'.
I don't see anything like as much of that behaviour in-game as those people would claim: it seems to be much more of an internet meme than a real thing. On t3 in my server, in the last week I have spent as much time doing PQs, keep raids, Mt Gunbad, solo questing and tomehunting as scenarios. Maybe the scenarios were better exp/hour: I haven't counted, don't intend to. With rest exp at least, there is no overwhelming difference.
One person says something, perhaps the valid perspective of someone who has:
- out-leveled the bulk of the players
- plays on low-pop servers in off-hours
- played a dedicated healer class back before there was working chat
- doesn't know how to get rest exp, but has OCD about exp/hour
- hits some other rough spot.
Others who don't even own the game, or haven't logged in in the last month or so, take those complaints as universal truth, because:
- they don't understand the game well enough to see the context of thre complain
- those who are not in a situation worth complaining about don't bother doing so.
So they repeat them, and people repeat them repeating them, and the whole things spirals from message board to message-board, blog to blog, without any particular need for a connection to the truth.
Not that the game is perfect - far from it. But when the complaining gets to be too self-referential, too grounded in what some other blogger said rather than personal experience, it all starts to get a bit pointless.tgw
By 'people', here you presumably you mean 'people complaining about War on the internet'.
I don't see anything like as much of that behaviour in-game as those people would claim: it seems to be much more of an internet meme than a real thing. On t3 in my server, in the last week I have spent as much time doing PQs, keep raids, Mt Gunbad, solo questing and tomehunting as scenarios. Maybe the scenarios were better exp/hour: I haven't counted, don't intend to. With rest exp at least, there is no overwhelming difference.
One person says something, perhaps the valid perspective of someone who has:
- out-leveled the bulk of the players
- plays on low-pop servers in off-hours
- played a dedicated healer class back before there was working chat
- doesn't know how to get rest exp, but has OCD about exp/hour
- hits some other rough spot.
Others who don't even own the game, or haven't logged in in the last month or so, take those complaints as universal truth, because:
- they don't understand the game well enough to see the context of thre complain
- those who are not in a situation worth complaining about don't bother doing so.
So they repeat them, and people repeat them repeating them, and the whole things spirals from message board to message-board, blog to blog, without any particular need for a connection to the truth.
Not that the game is perfect - far from it. But when the complaining gets to be too self-referential, too grounded in what some other blogger said rather than personal experience, it all starts to get a bit pointless.tgw
Well, the original Warhammer tabletop game didn't have a lot of FedEx quests or Kill X quests in it, did it? It was all about the battles. So, arguably, only when doing the PvP stuff are you actually playing in the spirit of Warhammer and not some kind of echo of WoW.
People are clearly not playing WAR for the stuff they can already do better in WoW.
People are clearly not playing WAR for the stuff they can already do better in WoW.
# posted by : 17/10/08 12:31
: 17/10/08 12:31
It really breaks my heart to see all those wicked keeps and PQs sitting there empty. I don't think I've seen a magic glowing treasure chest in a PQ since Tier 1. And instance dungeons? I doubt most players know they are there. I fear players will rush to the endgame doing the same scenarios over and over, get bored with it fast, and leave.
All they really need to do is cut the amount of XP you get in scenarios and boost the amount you get in RvR lakes. If you could make 10,000 xp in 15 minutes doing a keep siege, that's what people would do. They would be doing a lot more PQs and PvE stuff along the way as well.
I think the whole open world RvR would really be a blast once players started participating. I'd love to dump boiling oil on a bunch of orcs.
All they really need to do is cut the amount of XP you get in scenarios and boost the amount you get in RvR lakes. If you could make 10,000 xp in 15 minutes doing a keep siege, that's what people would do. They would be doing a lot more PQs and PvE stuff along the way as well.
I think the whole open world RvR would really be a blast once players started participating. I'd love to dump boiling oil on a bunch of orcs.
I don't see anything like as much of that behaviour in-game as those people would claim: it seems to be much more of an internet meme than a real thing. On t3 in my server, ...
I do agree that your best chance right now on most servers, mine included, to find a group for a public quest is in tier 3. But there is a significant number of players who either didn't play that much, or rerolled an alt, who are in tier 1 and 2. And I repeatedly tried to find an open group with more than 2 members in any of the t1 and t2 zones, and failed. And several commenters on my blog, on various threads, reported similar problems.
I do agree that your best chance right now on most servers, mine included, to find a group for a public quest is in tier 3. But there is a significant number of players who either didn't play that much, or rerolled an alt, who are in tier 1 and 2. And I repeatedly tried to find an open group with more than 2 members in any of the t1 and t2 zones, and failed. And several commenters on my blog, on various threads, reported similar problems.
If these are such brilliant ideas, rush out and make a game RIGHT NOW!
You'll be rich!
You'll be rich!
# posted by : 17/10/08 13:50
: 17/10/08 13:50
I checked my pockets and came up about $50 million short to turn my ideas into a real game. And the argument "go do it yourself" is fundamentally flawed anyway. Are you saying that 300 million Americans shouldn't have an opinion about who to vote for because they aren't politicians themselves?
Are you saying that 300 million Americans shouldn't have an opinion about who to vote for because they aren't politicians themselves?
Given that they elected Bush not once, but twice, I'd have to say 'yes' on that one =P
Given that they elected Bush not once, but twice, I'd have to say 'yes' on that one =P
I'll echo what Soru said, I just don't see this empty world everyone is talking about. Whenever I log into either my Destro or Order character, and view the 100+ member guild roster, most are not in scenarios.
Same goes for questing on a mid pop server in DE T2, plenty of people to do PQs with (have not missed a PQ yet, up to chap 8)
Are scenarios giving too much XP? Yes, and that will be fixed shortly. But does the world in WAR look anything like old Azeroth right now? Absolutely not. Just because you don't see the 50+ people jammed into a PQ like you did on launch day, does not mean EVERYONE is sitting around queued for a scenario.
Same goes for questing on a mid pop server in DE T2, plenty of people to do PQs with (have not missed a PQ yet, up to chap 8)
Are scenarios giving too much XP? Yes, and that will be fixed shortly. But does the world in WAR look anything like old Azeroth right now? Absolutely not. Just because you don't see the 50+ people jammed into a PQ like you did on launch day, does not mean EVERYONE is sitting around queued for a scenario.
# posted by : 17/10/08 15:07
: 17/10/08 15:07
WoW I totally believed you there, and was thinking why mythic would waste there time on War lite instead of just optimizing their currently clunk f**k of an engine.
# posted by : 17/10/08 15:19
: 17/10/08 15:19
"Well, the original Warhammer tabletop game didn't have a lot of FedEx quests or Kill X quests in it, did it? It was all about the battles. So, arguably, only when doing the PvP stuff are you actually playing in the spirit of Warhammer and not some kind of echo of WoW."
The original Warcraft didn't have those things either. Because, like the tabletop Warhammer, it wasn't an MMO.
The original Warcraft didn't have those things either. Because, like the tabletop Warhammer, it wasn't an MMO.
Had me going there.
But the first commenter has it right: already exists. Many FPSs these days have experience and reward upgrades.
But the first commenter has it right: already exists. Many FPSs these days have experience and reward upgrades.
# posted by : 17/10/08 18:04
: 17/10/08 18:04
Ahhh I fell for it again! Next time, I'm going to reserve massive amounts of skepticism just.. for.. you! Anyways its a great idea. And yes, WAR is currently too much like Team Fortress 2 :P Not that that's alwyas a bad thing...
I always thought I would choose open rvr over scenarios any day, but the big flaw with open rvr is the balance. Its very seldom balanced and when it get to a certain point its basically a zerg and a scattered zerg fighting with a jo-jo effect. And to be frank, its alot easier to just wait til 3 am and go get the damn keep when I have a chance for some reward for my effort. Oh, did I say I play a healer? Anyways, my main concern today with scenarios is that its typically only one that pops and the rest basically doesn't happen past prime time. Maybe doing like WoW's "battleground weeks" with increased exp/rp for different scenarios could be a way to solve that? I do hate Tor Anroc...
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# posted by : 19/10/08 02:01
: 19/10/08 02:01<< Home
