Tobold's Blog
Monday, December 22, 2008
 
Blame the healer

I got quite annoyed yesterday about a stupid pickup group. It started with some warrior looking for a healer in trade chat for Utgarde Pinnacle heroic. I hadn't been to that place yet, so I asked whether I could join. Got a reply that sorry, they had already found a healer. Well, no problem. 5 minutes later the same warrior sends me a tell whether I would still be interested. I get invited and find out that the warrior kicked out the previous healer before they even started, because the warrior didn't like the healer's looks. I should have left right there and then.

We make our way to the first boss. That boss has a special ability where sometimes one player is teleported to an altar, unable to do anything until the others in the group kill the three adds that channel the spell that hold them. So I get bound like that, and can't heal, and the rest of their group takes their time freeing me, getting seriously hurt in the meantime. So once I'm able to cast spells again, I find all 4 group members seriously wounded, and not close enough for a Circle of Healing. I do my best with Prayer of Mending, but need a lot of time to keep the tank alive, during which the dps are killed. I keep the tank up for a long while, but with just the two of us we finally wipe. And of course the dps guys blame me. Why didn't I heal them, yadda yadda yadda. I try to explain, but they won't listen.

So far, so usual. We rez, go back, and manage a perfect fight, due to me not getting stunned this time. Everyone at full health through the whole fight. And as soon as the boss is dead, the warrior says "bye healer" and kicks me out of the group, and puts me on ignore. After a successful fight of perfect healing! What an asshole!

Why is it always the healers that get blamed?
Comments:
If the 'kick healer because of looks' thing did not scare you away, I absolutely would have left at the stage where they were blaming you for not healing. I wouldn't have gone with them for a second try after that. I hope you remember all their names to never group with any of them again.
 
People like that leader and the others that never thank their healers are the reason I stopped going healer spec. I just refuse to do the most unappreciated job in MMOs to the point where I believe healing should be removed, as it is currently designed, from MMOs. Let everyone DPS and let the chips fall where they may.
 
I wonder how many healers they went through and how many have now put those people on ignore.

I've noticed many stories like this one about PUGs going horribly wrong because some players are just not listening or taking advice, and have no idea what it means to actually play together. Massively Single Player Game For The Win!
 
Healers get blamed, because people have a false impression that any and all damage can be healed through. That's not always the case, even when the healer vastly outgears the instance. It helps to have a healer as a party leader/raid leader/guild leader who likes Recount and WWS a lot. In my guild, we have two simple rules: If you die to avoidable damage, it's your fault. And if it's unavoidable damage, the log better show attempts at bandaging, healthstone use, healing potion use and/or use of panic buttons like Cloak of Shadows, Feign Death, Ice Block, Divine Shield and so on.

There are some games which have tried to move away from the tank/DPS/healer trinity. Warhammer Online has healers powering up healing by doing damage (and vice versa). EvE has logistics ships and carriers, but they're seen as a bonus and not taken for granted. Because every ship has access to self-healing with modules such as shield boosters and armor repairers, everyone is expected to be able to take care of themselves.
 
wow....

What a douche

that is a horrible story and its why people hate doing pugs. It is sad that a small percentage of people ruin something so simple as a 5 man. /faceroll
 
Wow what a jerk. These kinda folk ruin pugs and the game.
 
I kinda understand why you don't. But it would be sooooo tempting for me to actually post names. Don't you ever get the urge to name names?
 
In my guild, we have two simple rules: If you die to avoidable damage, it's your fault. And if it's unavoidable damage, the log better show attempts at bandaging, healthstone use, healing potion use and/or use of panic buttons like Cloak of Shadows, Feign Death, Ice Block, Divine Shield and so on.

You go through the log for every death? Wow...
 
Please send me a ingame-mail with the names ;)
 
You go through the log for every death? Wow...
Not every death, but every wipe. Most of the time it's easy to see the point where things started to go wrong and you can backtrack from a death to the contributing causes with an addon called the Grim Reaper, which filters away irrelevant log entries. In Tobold's case, it would have shown that the DPSers gradually lost health over a long period of time and that Tobold was incapacitated during that time.
 
That said.. it's sad that healers are assumed to be guilty until proven innocent.
 
Havent you learned yet that pugs can be awesome, they can be appalling, and everything in between?
 
DPS wins the fame.
Healers win the game.
 
why? because it's easiest to explain wipes this way. There is group of people who are thinking that healers are semi-gods and they demand to heal in any environmental conditions, from other side - the same people often aren't try even to help make healing task easier.

I'm rather weird player - because of RL conditions I'm playing very late nights regularly, so generally I'm playing solo or in pug groups, I have 10 70+ characters, each class and I love to play healers - so I have plenty of similiar stories. It's very often looks very similiar - group leader who are very nervous, often using "L33t" language and who doesn't know particular instance. It's waste of time trying to explain them anything - they are always "I know everything" guys.

My pearl from yestarday - nexus, DK, group leader at 71 as tank. I was played paladin in that case, healer of course, lvl 73. I made that particular instance few time with that character, so I know exactly what I should expect. First fight with one trash monster and I've seen that tank's damage mitigation was terrible bad. Second target finished bad, group of enemies cleaned floor with us - again tank took huge damages, additionaly I gathered aggro, no one took monsters from me, I tanked them as long as I could, during healing tank of course - I've tried all my tricks, but finally I was killed, few seconds later rest of group was down. I was little suprised - I've never had this kind of problem in that place with the same character, even on 70 level.

Of course first reaction was from group leader "F%^$%^$%^ helaer, l2p NoBZZZ" - standard, I've explained them in few words what happened and should help - I always give group second chance. Second try - the same result, after that I thanks group and leave them, of course with constant flow of very "nice" words from DK.

Just to my curiosity I've checked statistics of DK - he has random plates on him, some with +spell power, some with other random characteristics, but generally without anything which could help them to being tank, that exaplained me why his mitigation was so terrific.

It happens sometimes, suprisingly not so often like in the past.
 
If that isn't bad enough - the dpsers that like to TELL you when to heal them really drive me up the wall. And note to Tanks: if your healer isn't anywhere near you before engaging in another battle, chances are s/he's drinking to restore mana - do NOT charge into another battle. :)

I think every WoW player should have a go at a healing role, if only once, it might make a huge difference in the way they view 'the guy that stands in the back and doesn't really do anything'.
 
Second that. Every WoW-player should be forced to play as a healer in at least two high-level instances. That should shut them up.
 
I don't know why but PuGs have become worse since WotLK. I had a similar experience yesterday, not as bad but still got blamed as healer for wipes that were not my fault.

Maybe a large population of people who came back to WoW after WotLK was released and who can barely play the game are to blame - I'm not sure. In any case Tobold my advise to you is not to get mad or sad about such groups. Here are some tips I follow:
1. Add any nice/good tanks you PuG with to your friends list.
2. Always try to have at least the tank from your friends or guild list.
3. If the PuG does go bad don't dwell on it. Try to get another or go do something else, such as dailies, gathering or leveling an alt. I like to play with my DK as a post-bad-PuG stress reliever, he's so OP it's just insanely fun to play him. I soloed every 3-man quest in Terokkar Forest last night after the PuG broke up and my DK was level 66 :)
 
One thing you could do , at the start of every instance , is to say the healer motto. "If the tank dies , it's the healer's fault. If the healer dies , it's the tank's fault. If the DPS die , it's their own bloody fault". Of course , that's not entirely true , because if the tank dies , it can be his fault (having bad gear, not knowing when to use oh s#!t paninc buttons , pots and so on). And there are fights with aoe where you just have to heal the dps too. But , generally , the quote is true. If they don't agree when you say it , just do youserlf a favor and leave the party.

I hate it when people blaim healers for their mistakes. I myself play a protection paladin (lvl 63 atm) and I know 2 good healers (who after pug-ing with me a couple of times joined my very small guild). On bad pulls and tough situations when they manage to keep me up , i always thank them for keeping me alive. I like to keep my healers happy. And even if I die (which is a very rare event when healed by them) , i don't go "FFS WHY DIDN'T YOU HEAL ME NOOB".
---
Not entirely related , but i'd like to know how you feel about something like this. I was in Trisfal Glades grinding UC rep with my paladin when i get a whisper. "1 gold plz" , "1 gold plz i pay you back" , "can you speak english NOOB" , "NOOB" . As soon as I try to reply i get "Name is ignoring you". I was left speachless.
 
A Shadow Priest or any other semi-healing capable hybrid makes a good companion for the pinnacle because of the things you mentioned.

Experienced players do not blame the healer openly, if they do at all.
You do not lament about the only guy who is healing you for a reason...^^
 
BTW, i support anonymous insights about healing in MMOs. Age of Conan introduced an amazing concept of healing through fighting. Besides that, guys capable of healing like noone else and can do nothing else besides that for balance reasons are usually 1. highly unpopular for players and thus 2. rare and 3. in very high demand.

Be it GW or WoW, you can replace almost everything, even the tank, but never the healer.
 
Tobold, maybe you should have quit after the wipe but I can understand that you hadn't done the instance before and wanted to give it a spin, that's the nature of PUGs after all.

Anyway I think the rule of thumb with healers is that they always get:

1) Praised to the heavens when things go right.
2) Cursed to damnation when things go wrong.

If you want to be be ignored play a pure DPS class.
 
This blue Post might interest you
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/27/13723832302-healer-mechanics-discussion.html
 
Yes. I totally agree. PuGs have gone horribly wrong since WotLK. And it's always the healer who is blamed.

Yesterday I was running a heroic with three melee dpsers and NOT ONE of them bandaged, ate, or used potions or did anything to patch up their low health. The tank didn't let me drink when I ran out of mana, but ran ahead and just pulled the next group. And when the group wiped (surprise, surprise), they called me a bad healer and let me know that I'm not wanted in the group.

And that's just one example and the tip of the iceberg unfortunately.
 
Stories like this one makes me smile... smile because i no longer play McWarcraft :)
 
Don't pug... that's all there is too it. Also post his name if he was that childish and watch his pug playing days burn down in flames.
 
Your rant is a waste of time unless you post his name. In fact, it's a disservice to your server not to do exactly that.
 
Horrid behavior by that group, specifically the tank, but hey, there are a lot more tanks that will be looking for healers than the other way around. In other words, he'll need you way before you'll ever need him again, and he, in some ways, did you a favor by being a jerk right now rather than screw you worse a few weeks or months ago.

And if you don't share his name here, you should at least do your guild a favor and share his name with them.
 
Even if you had been to blame for it, that is pathetic behaviour, and I can only imagine that pretty soon he will end up all alone in a group of 1.
Im my experience of pugs, when wipes occur, people are only too eager to blame someone, rather than just accept it went bad, and that ineveitably means either the tank or the healer (or Hunter pets!).
 
I say learn to trust your intuition. The only way I'll pug is one or two slots, the rest has to be guild mates. That or a guild mate says he/she's in a good group and needs one more because someone just left.

Pugs are just unnecessarily stressful, I don't mind learning the encounters with people and wiping, it's the a-holes like you described.
 
It's not really just specific to WoW, in this case. It's a perfect application of John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad theory.

In short: Anonymity + Audience = Asshole

For the complete comic with the theory, visit http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/
 
PUGs can be fun. You get the chance to meet people you don't normally associate with. Maybe they have a different way of doing things that you've never thought of before. But there's always a chance of running into a bunch of idiots. That goes with the territory. I know people who would rather farm mats for hours if friends/guildies aren't available to run instances. Personally, I'd rather take a chance on a PUG. There's also something to be said about a challenge. Most people in my guild are good enough that 5 and 10-mans are trivial. I've managed quite a few times to drag a weak PUG group through heroic content and created some memorable moments in the process. I remember helping a young, casual guild run through Karazhan a week before Wrath. They were excited to see the content and get epics (they had only been to Kara once before) and that made the run through a quite unique and entertaining experience.

On a side note, on my pet peeves in Wrath is all the mediocre-geared tanks who think that they can AoE tank 2 packs of mobs at once. The prevalence of AoE tanking has caused quite a lot of bad habits, even among experienced players.
 
I think you should give us the name and server of this person. He deserves some harassment for being an asshole.
 
MMO Hell is other people.
 
Don't be angry. Laugh. Because if that tank goes on like this for another two weeks he will have every healer on the server on his ignore (and vice versa). Than he can change server or stop playing WoW.
 
I think what I hate most about running 5 mans is that all game mechanics that are setup to punish the players for not doing something fall onto the healers lap to control.

Tank can't hold aggro? Guess the healer has to heal everyone!
DPS can't move out of the fire/ice/shadow/green jello? Better spam heal them to keep them up to DPS!
DPS too low on a boss fight? Healer better use a mana potion to keep from going OOM!

I don't understand why it is designed this way for 5 mans. In raids you at least have some mechanics that either can't be healed through so DPS have to move or they just die (Shadow Fissures on KT and Sarthirion) and you have mechanics like in KT where if DPS stand too close together they all get ice blocked. The ice blocking them for standing to close together is a good example of hitting DPS where it hurts...on the DPS meters.



Game mechanics that require a DPS to move or react in a certain way should PUNISH THE DPS player that FAILED and not simply put more burden on the shoulders of the healer. A great example of this was in ZA. Troll shaman mobs would drop lightning totems that did damage and a protection totem that made all mobs immune to damage while it was on the ground. Guess which one the DPS got really good at killing quickly?


Also Tobold I think the great masses of WoW players that spent all of TBC farming Kara and couldn't figure out how to move out from rocks @ Gruul just hit 80 over the past weekend. Anyone looking to run with pugs should watch out.
 
I can only agree with Kiseran here. You don't piss off the wrong people, whether it's in a game or not.

I guess he should turn on loading screen tips, then he would've seen "Being polite while in a group will get you invited back."
 
Healing - the one that deserves the most praise for a fight, the one that rarely sees any praise but will most frequently be the first one to get all the grief.
 
I never liked PUGs, most because things like you described... I am druid, I had been resto, feral and now balance, I already been blamed for been a healer or tank, now that I am dps I see why this happens, dps'es only see DMG, DPS and stuff like that. one episode I have to tell that explain this:

I was in a Azjol-Nerub run with a pug, they had a bad gear compared to mine, and mine is terrible, but well, skill > gear, sometimes... So we passed first and second bosses, everything kinda good, the group was 2 boomkins, I was one of them, warrior tank, priest healer and an elemental shaman, all casters and a meatshield, but the thing is, the other boomkin sucked, but he was the tank friend so we "coundn't" replace him... but even though, everything was ok. on the last boss Anub'arak he has a special skill that impales you if you stay still while the animation moves below you... it happens that all the time the shaman and the other moonkin were hit by the impale, they never moved away... and because of that the priest was getting out of mana all the time, and I saved my innervate for him, every try we did, and what the tank and the other dps said? this priest suck, very poor mana regen, even when he tried to expain thet they wre taking unnecessary dmg. I realized that and said to the guys but no one listen, they only blamed the healer... I was angry about that and left the group and said sorry to the priest about all the assholes. Thats the life, ppl can't have a wider view...
 
Because its World of Warcraft. WoW isn't a bad game, but it's fragmented communities and competitive gameplay perpetuate this culture of "blame" in a video game.
 
simple as this: the healer is there to keep the tank alive, the tank is responsible for keeping the the whole group alive. when dps classes die it is the tanks or their own fault in 95% of all cases. especially with all those tanking buffs, all classes got with wotlk, there is absolutely no excuse for losing aggro even in a 4 mob pull. if that happens the tank sux. plain and simple.
 
"So once I'm able to cast spells again, I find all 4 group members seriously wounded, and not close enough for a Circle of Healing. I do my best with Prayer of Mending,"

Are you that terrible? You find 4 group members seriously wounded and you are not instantly casting IF>PoH? How can you do your best with PoM exactly..? Maybe you deserved to be kicked.
 
I don't always do this, but on some of the few occasions where I got kicked out of a group for no reason with no explanation, I report the person to their guild. People acting like this usually do so because they feel superior and untouchable; because they have a guild to raid with and do PUG just for the heck of it. You bring it up to their guild, and most guild leaders want to preserve a good image of their guild name, they usually look into it. You can look up the guild leader in the Armory... of course, no way of knowing if the guild leader is an alt of that moron, but it's a chance worth taking.
 
Just another example of the superior elitist attitude that many have developed in WoW.
 
He is hiding his selfishness behind prejudice. Fascinating..
 
I was actually thinking about stopping by the store and buying WOTLK after work today, but after reading your experience I remember why I left WoW for EvE Online. See, in EvE if something like that happened, you could make that player's life a living hell and he would soon learn to be nice or live his virtual reality in shame without friends or support. You can't retaliate in any way, and now that player will go on ruining other people's play sessions since there is NO WAY for a player to stop him in WoW =|

I just wish WoW had some form of PK (player-killer) where idiots could be put in their place for being asshats to other players.

Anyways, thanks for this post Tobold- I'll stick with EvE until a fantacy game with a similar rule-set comes out.
 
"Stories like this one makes me smile... smile because i no longer play McWarcraft :)"

This comment had me laughing my ass off. I try to look back on the time I spent as a healer in WOW in a postive light, but the truth is that healing sucks in WOW, plain and simple. The healer spends all of their time watching healthbars while everyone else gets to enjoy the meat and potatoes of the encounter. Healing is hard, thankless work and a person who rolls one is either extremely honorable and humble, or someone who enjoys self-mortification. I miss certain things about WOW but healing isn't one of them.
 
Terrible community, WoW has the market.
 
If it's a heroic, just thank them for the group, innocently park your character at the entrance and go watch tv or write blogs or something. Alt tab back in to tap the keyboard occasionally.

After they replace you and spend 20 mins trying to get a 6th person into a 5 man instance they'll give up the run in frustration. Invite non-dickwad tank and 3 randoms and finish your heroic.

If you're really lucky scrolling back through the chat while you were afk may give you ammo to report them for being abusive and they may get a temporary ban.

Don't get mad, get even
 
Cmoplaining about other players in your MMO? I still like Chris F's idea:
Private Servers
 
Bleh, I can't spell today. Anyway, Tobold, I'm no fan of healing, so I tip my hat to you for being willing to do it in the first place. I've written before about my dislike of other people in MMOs, but even I, a heavily solo player, can concede that every once in a while a good player will make up for the random idiots.

As for healing in general, I do tend to come down on the side of the design concept where every character has an efficient self-heal, and "healers" are there as hybrids of DPS and spike healing. Yes, that means players would be more autonomous, but I've never been one much for forced grouping, anyway. My ideal MMO would allow for "raids" (such as they are) to be doable with any random groups of characters, of whatever class or mix of classes. To my little mind, forced grouping and strict roles invite this sort of prejudice and snap (poor) judgment. If every class were self-sufficient (albeit in different ways, sure), it promotes responsibility in the proper place in my mind; squarely on the player who screws up.
 
Post his name, to either here or to his guild. People need to learn that being an asshat has consequences. When I played my healer I kept a list of all asshole players and I would never heal for them. Sure I missed out on a couple groups, some of them even took it personal, but I could enjoy my game knowing that one less healer would help them get to Kara.
 
Why healers are blamed:

1. Healing is unpopular, so not a lot of people realize the difficulties involved in healing, making it easier to throw blame in that direction.

2. It's much easier to see healing being done/not done than to see damage avoided by the tank blocking/using high armor/etc., damage avoided because of a crowd control, damage avoided because of spell interrupts, threat generation that keeps damage off the non-tanks, etc.

3. I've probably missed some other reasons.


Although I do know in general why support classes aren't played as much, it is still surprising to some parts of my mind that they aren't. Support classes can be quite exciting/interesting to play, often involve a different playstyle than damagers, and are quite important for group survival. That space invader "must kill things quickly, everything else is boring" mentality still seems likely ot stick around, though.
 
I had a treat over the weekend. As healer I got blamed for a wipe in H CoS. They booted me inside the instance. To my surprise I wasn't hearthed. Instead it was bugged and I stayed in the same instance as the rest of them but not in their group. Based on their whispers I guess it wasn't allowing them to invite anyone else. What a shame. I stuck around and explored. Karma I say.

People want everything to be EZMode. In that particular PUG it wasn't really anyone's individual fault we wiped. The whole group was marginally equipped for a heroic. We had little room for error and we didn't execute perfectly on that boss so we wiped. But no one wants a challenge.
 
One way to compensate for such bad behaviour is to actively do the opposite. Always thank people who do a good job, both at the time they do it and again at the end of the run. e.g. "Nice emergency heal there RetPally, that really helped", "Good tanking FeralBear, you didn't lose aggro once". That helps to compensate in some small way for the "L2P n00b" rubbish they get from the likes of your warrior. It's amazing how rarely people get thanked when things go well.
 
Good comment Sven. I try to change the attitude in pugs. I say hello when I join. I do little emotes. I don't call people by their generic role ("hey tank do this"). I complement people. Sometimes it's ignored but sometimes I find nice people who open up in a positive environment and we have a good time.
 
Catching idiots with a bad attitude in a series of PUGs is the main thing that sometimes makes me question why I have MMO's as a hobby. This is true even when I'm DPS and they're ignoring me and yelling at each other. Sure, there are idiots and jerks everywhere, but in person it's a heck of a lot easier to punish or avoid those people.
 
"1. Healing is unpopular, so not a lot of people realize the difficulties involved in healing, making it easier to throw blame in that direction".
The sad thing about this is that it's a self-reinforcing cycle. Healing is unpopular, so people don't understand it, so healers get blamed, so healing becomes unpleasant and even less popular.
 
wipes are the fun
 
"Are you that terrible? You find 4 group members seriously wounded and you are not instantly casting IF>PoH? How can you do your best with PoM exactly..? Maybe you deserved to be kicked."

Seriously did you read what Tobold said? If he's out of CoH range how can PoH help?
Inner Focus does NOT make Prayer of Healing instant.

Maybe you deserve to be kicked out of the planet.
 
"The healer spends all of their time watching healthbars while everyone else gets to enjoy the meat and potatoes of the encounter."

That's a common misconception in my opinion.

Every class/role has it's mechanic that you have to focus on. No one can just sit there and watch the script of the encounter with delight, unless we include dead avatars. For example as a raiding Mage, the targets of all the different tanks, the mob's healthbars, my sheep and my cooldowns etc. where more than enough to keep me busy. ;)
 
You go through the log for every death? Wow...
Even my casual guild did this, at least when we were learning a boss, we just used grim and the RL would announce what happened (not in a humiliating way that was not the point), esp for wipes. otherwise you can't learn if you don't know why people died.

I remember my first Mags run, I died and he said "be careful that you don't run into the cleave" hah :)

Are you that terrible? You find 4 group members seriously wounded and you are not instantly casting IF>PoH? How can you do your best with PoM exactly..? Maybe you deserved to be kicked.

I LOLed at your comment, you not only didn't read but have no idea how priests work. How would IF help a PoH except to hope for a crit? How would PoH work if the other players were too spread out. Sometimes I'll run up and try to poh whoever can be reached, but sometimes that's 2 people.

Really we need game design to be differnet. WAR promised this but frankly didn't deliver, only 2 of the 6 healing classes have to damage to power their heals. CoV is the only game that really changes things, and maybe GW to an extent. If the game was more like that, comments like the tank and the commenter above wouldn't happen as much, because they'd know more and not say things like that out of ignorance.

All I know is playing my hunter in pugs I have a renewed appreciation for how much you have to pay attention and how it's not so easy as it seems, but otoh it is pretty easy :) Basically it's hard when things go wrong, case those rogues love to break my traps, there needs to be an addon for when your target gets CCd in a way that breaks on damage and prints it big on your screen.
 
Experiences like the one in your post, Tobold, are the prime reasons I dont heal PUG's anymore. I am VERY grateful for the social network of competent players that I've been able to build over the course of the past 4 years on my server. Just last night I got invited to heal a 25-man heroic Sartharion run by someone who used to be in my guild, and after joining I found out that there were quite a few players with whom I had never grouped with before. I was a little hesitant at first, but I trusted the leadership of the ex-guildie who invited me and stayed for the encounter. We managed to wipe at the enrage stage on the first attempt due to people dying in the preceeding lava waves, but everyone came back with not a single insult or attempt at blame by anyone and we downed Sartharion with only 3 deaths on the second attempt. I actually won the bag of spoils and which netted me a total of 67 gold, and 6 Valor emblems from the encounter.

I think what this all falls back to is the risk versus reward mechanic of joining PUG's. Wipes are costly now, with the average repair costs being around 40-50 gold anytime your gear turns yellow, and much higher with epics entering the mix. It's just not worth it. Period.

I dont know if this signals a change in how grouping will fare from here on out, all I know is that people need to consider their toons and their abilities and question themselves in terms of if they could have done somthing differently, or better on the next attempt. I'm one of those people who keeps a black list that is populated by the very type of person you talk about in your post. I give people one shot, and after that my mind is already made up on whether or not I would group with them again.
 
"If he's out of CoH range how can PoH help?
Inner Focus does NOT make Prayer of Healing instant.
Maybe you deserve to be kicked out of the planet."

If you were not an idiot, and knew the encounter you would realize there is no chance in hell PoH would be out of range of anyone in that room. It also has the additional bonus of being able to heal LoS people (which on that boss can be a problem). So CoH range is absolutely irrelevant. IF does not need to make PoH instant, it gives you crits, which means instant FH to top the tank.
 
I've played a healer so I know how it is.


But sometimes, it really IS the healer's fault. Obviously not in your situation Tobold, but today I got out of a Heroic Halls of Stone run with a shaman that simply could not multi-target heal. Easiest bloody class to multi-heal on and he failed at it miserably. I spent 50% of the boss fights in the instance facefirst on the ground.

(There isn't much in the way of avoidable damage in HoS. On MoG, you're going to take void zone tics to avoid the repent. On Tribunal there's craziness going around, I pull aggro on mobs that are getting through the lines so they don't dogpile brann, etc. The giant boss is the easiest. But Sjonnir.... unavoidable damage from Lightning Shield, you will take at least 1-2 hits from every nova, chain lightning, static charge, ADDS, ugh. A healer that fails at multi-target is hell on that fight.)
 
Tobold getting kicked is an excuse I will buy. This was Heroic and you got saved into the instance. Even if they kick you from the group you won't get hearted. If I were you, I would have stayed and not heal. They can't get another healer as it will be "Instance is full". GG Welcome to WoW. This game will reset in 2 years.
 
I don't understand what the previous poster means. I thought the instance was finished, so how would staying inside it screw them over?
 
Tobold, I think you should also make the names public. At least make a post about whether or not to publicize bad experiences.

Think of it as cleaning litter off the sidewalk. If an asshole develops a bad reputation, maybe he will quit WoW and make the community better for the rest of us. Self-policing communities like craigslist.org work very well that way.
 
Bad game design mechanic to have people solo to 70 then learn how to work with groups. Its actually pretty funny the matter of fact realization you get for PUGS with inexperienced players and all the barriers you work with. Its like showing up to the wrong olympics and then effortlessly being the gold medalist, only to get blamed for all the fail that happens.

~tenmohican
 
Name, and shame the asshat.

Do it.

Kethael
 
I've seen healers and tanks taking a lot of grief by their teammates, and I think the real issue here is that some roles are much more responsible for success/failure than others, or at least perceived that way.

In my opinion the real solution is to make sure that every player in a group has a moment when the entire fight's success rests on them.

I wrote a much longer post here, with several suggestions: http://mikedarga.blogspot.com/2008/12/give-every-player-heroic-moment-in.html
 
Well, I agree that this sucks. But I find that mostly the dps gets blamed. Why? Because of healers constantly claiming the victim position (this is not meant at the blogger of course, this is a blatant generalisation). I see blogs and forum posts from poor healers who get blamed by the mean dps all the time, and then add that they do not heal dps who overaggro, can't move out of the fire, blablabla.
I'm sorry? There are fights where DPS takes damage REGARDLESS of whether they move or not. When I get blizzard on me in Nexus, I am sorry, I can not escape it. Hello? Heal please? Dead mage. Why? Because if a dps takes damage, it's their own fault. This seems to be a general truth. I do agree that with healers it comes across more aggressive, because there is only one to blame, that person takes all the crap. While dps are generally a few, and can defend each other, rule by majority so to speak.

When I do instances, I constantly hear; good healing, good tanking.
I very very seldom hear anyone complimenting a dps. Because hey! Anyone can do that right? But healing is special. So when healers get blamed, they can say something and people will offer comfort. When a dps gets blamed it's probably because it was his fault any way.
 
If anyone is to blame in that situation it's the DPS, if they're not able to kill 3 mobs with 12k health each quickly enough for you to come out and be able to heal them again then they all deserve to die. I just barely did that fight and we owned the adds, the heals had plenty of time to get out, in fact I kinda got bored watching the sword go all the way down after the adds were dead...
 
Played a Holy Paladin for well over 2 years, part of that time on a raiding guild and I ended up switching main to a Hunter, because healing with players who constantly whined about the healing was stressing me out so much I stopped playing almost completely for almost a year.

The complaints came from DPS most the time, and part of those DPS did it when they died in a mob's WW, which could have been avoided, had they moved out of range instead of staying there in an attempt to top the damage meters. Which they wouldn't anyway because us healers were busy healing the tanks.

One of the top moments in terms of idiotic whining, was at Black Temple, when some trash mobs who would AoE stun everyone had (naturally) stunned the healers and made them unable to cast. That same mob did some AoE damage if I recall correctly. The guild's MT that day had respecced DPS and someone else was MTing, and when he died from an AoE that the mobs did, he started complaining about the 'crappy healing' on vent. Fortunately a Holy Paladin who had recently gotten his microphone up and running replied to him very directly, asking him if he was stupid and explaining what a 3 year old would know - once we are out of the stun, we heal the tanks and the other healers first, only then moving on to heal the DPS.

I'm glad I changed to my hunter. The only times I sometimes regret doing it are when it's plain obvious that hunters are still low on demand for PUGs. But then again, I'm not a huge fan of PUGs, mostly because of situation like the one you speak of in your post.
 
And I thought it was only us Hunters who were unloved !
 
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