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Tuesday, January 13, 2009
Petition to Disney
Dear Disney,
I'm 6'3" tall, and I'm writing you to petition that you should change all the "must be this tall to ride" signs on all the fast rides in Disneyland, Disney World, and Euro Disney to a minimum height of 6'. People who are smaller than me and my friends simply don't deserve to be allowed on the fast rides. You're current height requirements of around 4' have turned the Disney theme parks into easy mode, it just isn't special enough to be allowed on those rides.
I've put a lot of effort into getting to the height I am, eating all my vegetables all the time, and I feel that Disney should reward that effort by reserving certain content for me and people like me. By letting the morons and slackers who don't even know how to eat right on the fast rides, you are devalueing my achievement. How do you want me to consider the photo that gets shot at the exit as epic if nowadays basically everyone can get one?
Furthermore I feel that the lesser Disney park visitors need role-models to look up to, literally. By limiting the thrill rides to tall people, you encourage the smaller ones to get their act together and grow. They will see the tall people strutting around the elite exclusive rides, and want to be like that. I dismiss the argument that smaller visitors pay the same entry fee as taller visitors of the same age, and thus should be allowed to use the same content. The slow rides like the Alice in Wonderland tea cups, or It's a Small World, are good enough for them.
As I'm taking Disney theme parks more serious than the casual visitors, I should be entitled to lots of exclusive content. So please, Disney, reserve all the thrill rides to those elite customers of yours that are over 6' tall, like me. We deserve it!
Yours,
Tobold
[Author's Note: Before this is taken out of context and causes a storm of outrage among Disney fans, let me state that this petition of course isn't real. It is a parody on those people who demand that only players that play as much and as well as they do should be allowed by Blizzard to participate in raid content and get epics. Disney was in fact more intelligent in realizing that excluding a majority of your customers from the most fun content wasn't a good business model. Blizzard just came around to that realization in the last expansion, causing the previously "elite" to complain.]
- posted by Tobold @ 8:42 AM Permanent Link
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Made my day. Thanks for this. Need to hide mad giggle from co-workers...
# posted by 
: 13/1/09 09:19
: 13/1/09 09:19
Notice that the author's note at the end was needed. Apparently some people need to focus their anger outside themselves so badly that they would put something out of context just to vent. Does every blogger this days has to put a bullet proof vest before putting content out? Good luck Tobold!
# posted by : 13/1/09 10:15
: 13/1/09 10:15
WTF...what gives YOU the right to set a height limit? I pay the same entry fee as you do and I want to get to see all the rides too. You are already getting more than your fair share because all of Disney's rides are much larger than they need to be and more expensive just so they can fit no-life giants like you. Why don't you ....
Oh.
Lol.
Oh.
Lol.
"As I'm taking Disney theme parks more serious than the casual visitors, I should be entitled to lots of exclusive content. So please, Disney, reserve all the thrill rides to those elite customers of yours that are over 6' tall, like me. We deserve it!"
They do, it's called the gift shop, and it's full of exclusive content that casual noobs will find too hard or too expensive :D
Personally, I would like to suggest that instead of outright banning everyone under 6' from all the good rides, that they instead create an "X-TREME!" version of each ride that you have to be 6' or over to ride on. These would essentially be the same ride, but would feature higher speeds and more loops that would be unsuitable for younger ones. I hear that Disney did in-fact consider and actually implement this idea some time ago, but caved to pressure from all the kids that they couldn't go on the supposedly 'better' ride and the current X-TREME versions still leave the people who asked for them in the first place dissatisfied.
They do, it's called the gift shop, and it's full of exclusive content that casual noobs will find too hard or too expensive :D
Personally, I would like to suggest that instead of outright banning everyone under 6' from all the good rides, that they instead create an "X-TREME!" version of each ride that you have to be 6' or over to ride on. These would essentially be the same ride, but would feature higher speeds and more loops that would be unsuitable for younger ones. I hear that Disney did in-fact consider and actually implement this idea some time ago, but caved to pressure from all the kids that they couldn't go on the supposedly 'better' ride and the current X-TREME versions still leave the people who asked for them in the first place dissatisfied.
# posted by : 13/1/09 10:59
: 13/1/09 10:59
Dear Tobold,
We'd like to inform you about the following things:
* Riding the toys of the park is single player content. Small riders do not waste your time, do not expect any effort from you, do not want you to stand hours by the ride to put them on since they are unable to climb up, you can safely ignore them.
* Riding is not related with growing. A small person can be just as good rider as you. We DO have a sign telling "not recommended for people having epilepsia, coordination disorders and similar conditions".
* We DO have content that require bigger height, for example Mickey Mouse's basketball field, so you and your friends are very welcomed to visit it.
* We are unsure about the "epic feeling of a pony-photo". Since being single player content, there is no competition there, so nothing to feel epic, it's just for easy fun. We do have a "hall of fame" next to the Mickey Mouse's basketball field, where the highest scores are to be seen. So we have some easy single player content for those who don't like to put effort into our services and there are competitive contents for capable teams.
Yours,
Disney management
We'd like to inform you about the following things:
* Riding the toys of the park is single player content. Small riders do not waste your time, do not expect any effort from you, do not want you to stand hours by the ride to put them on since they are unable to climb up, you can safely ignore them.
* Riding is not related with growing. A small person can be just as good rider as you. We DO have a sign telling "not recommended for people having epilepsia, coordination disorders and similar conditions".
* We DO have content that require bigger height, for example Mickey Mouse's basketball field, so you and your friends are very welcomed to visit it.
* We are unsure about the "epic feeling of a pony-photo". Since being single player content, there is no competition there, so nothing to feel epic, it's just for easy fun. We do have a "hall of fame" next to the Mickey Mouse's basketball field, where the highest scores are to be seen. So we have some easy single player content for those who don't like to put effort into our services and there are competitive contents for capable teams.
Yours,
Disney management
Tobold,
While I appreciate and understand the friendly jab you are taking with this issue, you seem to be taking the high road with regards to what a person should, or should not be able to say.
It's bordering on censorship. Or at the least you appear to be injecting Political Correctness into the issue(which is just as bad).
Regardless of the message, or what words were used to communicate his disdain for lower skilled players, the issue here is that there are, in fact, varying skill levels among players of ALL types of games. Sometimes the verbage is nothing more than a byproduct of the dissapointment that a person feels after they have experienced something continuously over time. I've been in 5-mans before where the hunter's pet aggro's something because the pet is still on aggressive, we wipe, I call the hunter a noob, and he takes the hint that I'm not happy with him, and we move on. If I meet that hunter a day/month/year later, we group, and he does the same type of thing again, I may very well call him something other than a slacker or a moron.
The price of admission to a gamers opinion is free. There's no need to go to Disney to validate this. =)
While I appreciate and understand the friendly jab you are taking with this issue, you seem to be taking the high road with regards to what a person should, or should not be able to say.
It's bordering on censorship. Or at the least you appear to be injecting Political Correctness into the issue(which is just as bad).
Regardless of the message, or what words were used to communicate his disdain for lower skilled players, the issue here is that there are, in fact, varying skill levels among players of ALL types of games. Sometimes the verbage is nothing more than a byproduct of the dissapointment that a person feels after they have experienced something continuously over time. I've been in 5-mans before where the hunter's pet aggro's something because the pet is still on aggressive, we wipe, I call the hunter a noob, and he takes the hint that I'm not happy with him, and we move on. If I meet that hunter a day/month/year later, we group, and he does the same type of thing again, I may very well call him something other than a slacker or a moron.
The price of admission to a gamers opinion is free. There's no need to go to Disney to validate this. =)
This is very bad analogy, Tobold. Making raiding more casual and easy is more like removing all horror from horror movies so that everyone can watch it. Let me put it bluntly, Burning Crusade raids/dungeons had flaws, too: But they did not turn into extreme boredom 1-2 months after release of TBC. Setting the requirements needed for the raid dungeons lower than ever before is not the problem, but part of it. WoW guarantees victory and placation for everyone by now. But the standards are so low that there is no thrill involved in doing a dungeon anymore at all. It feels like some kind of minor work needed to get a badge/token. I want an exciting ride, not a walk in the park. --- Blizz will probably throw raiders a bone with Ulduar, but this does not change that the pretty landscapes and dungeons of Northrend are pretty much wasted to appease a crowd of players that just want to "win" while playing bad. I paid for the content, so I am eligible to get it all, right? Nothing wrong with making content more accessible for people with less time at hand and not really that skilled players, do not get me wrong. But the extreme dumbing down made WOTLK content a dumb chore that I no longer support. Heck, I stopped playing the game. But seems there are no other MMOs out there that can match the virtual placation factor and attraction of MassCraft.
Whatever Drugh said. Cannot help grinning and giggling.
But at the same time, it's pretty disturbing to think that you had to put that last paragraph in there... though I think that is reserved for the morons and slackers, not for the noobs?
Copra
PS. Agree. Totally.
But at the same time, it's pretty disturbing to think that you had to put that last paragraph in there... though I think that is reserved for the morons and slackers, not for the noobs?
Copra
PS. Agree. Totally.
Please note. We have recently implemented "instancing" for the park, to allow for specific "Height Enhanced" rides to be enjoyed by those 6 foot and over
Thank you
Thank you
I came across your petition in my daily search for Disney news and just had to say that this is hilarious!!!!! Thanks for the laugh this morning.
# posted by : 13/1/09 12:44
: 13/1/09 12:44
I lol'ed but...
The average WoW player can eventually buy crafted gear, run heroics, gain badge loot and walk into any raid going.
The average 4 foot person cant just keep plugging away on that stretching rack and hope to gain an extra 2 feet.
The average WoW player can eventually buy crafted gear, run heroics, gain badge loot and walk into any raid going.
The average 4 foot person cant just keep plugging away on that stretching rack and hope to gain an extra 2 feet.
# posted by : 13/1/09 12:50
: 13/1/09 12:50
Its ironic that both sides of the fence are just as loud and obnoxious as the other in this debate :D
Elitist players shout and stamp their feet when casuals get let into their content...
Casual players shout and stamp their feet when barriers to entry are too loud.
Both sides have points but unfortuantly both sides act like whiny little brats with too much sugar inside them.
Meanwhile the middle of the road players watch on in amusement whilst enjoying the content they play instead of moaning that others can reach it, or whining that its too hard.
Seriously, posting this Disney comparison is just as bad as some hardcore tw@ nerdraging about how epic gear isnt epic anymore if any scrub can get it.
Keep it up though, its funny to see both sides make asses of themselves ;)
Elitist players shout and stamp their feet when casuals get let into their content...
Casual players shout and stamp their feet when barriers to entry are too loud.
Both sides have points but unfortuantly both sides act like whiny little brats with too much sugar inside them.
Meanwhile the middle of the road players watch on in amusement whilst enjoying the content they play instead of moaning that others can reach it, or whining that its too hard.
Seriously, posting this Disney comparison is just as bad as some hardcore tw@ nerdraging about how epic gear isnt epic anymore if any scrub can get it.
Keep it up though, its funny to see both sides make asses of themselves ;)
# posted by : 13/1/09 13:05
: 13/1/09 13:05
'Casual players shout and stamp their feet when barriers to entry are too loud' should read 'hard' not loud ;)
Typotacular
Typotacular
# posted by : 13/1/09 13:07
: 13/1/09 13:07
With regard to @kessian's excellent suggestion of extreme or "Hard Mode" rides for taller visitors I would like to point out that such a feature could easily be added with the addition of a few low hanging obstacles that would add an extra hazard to rides for taller folk. In fact some forward looking theme parks have already gone down this route. I am thinking in particular of the Corkscrew ride in Alton Towers whose cleverly designed restraint system does a fair job of trying to bash in the head of taller riders.
While I appreciate and understand the friendly jab you are taking with this issue, you seem to be taking the high road with regards to what a person should, or should not be able to say. It's bordering on censorship. Or at the least you appear to be injecting Political Correctness into the issue(which is just as bad).
I love intelligent discussion of MMORPG subjects. And I have found that when people start to call each other names, the discussion goes down the drain. Thus if I have to censor terms like "moron" and inject enough political correctness into the comment section that people stop calling each other names, I will do it. Note that for example Gevlon's post on his blog where he states that it is the purpose of a guild to keep raids free of morons could easily have been rephrased as "purpose of the guild is gather people of similar skills together", and it would not have been insulting, and I would even have agreed with that. All I'm asking is that everyone phrases his opinion in a non-judgemental way, because that is the only way communication can work.
Setting the requirements needed for the raid dungeons lower than ever before is not the problem, but part of it. WoW guarantees victory and placation for everyone by now. But the standards are so low that there is no thrill involved in doing a dungeon anymore at all.
That depends for who. My guild for example is doing reasonably well in Naxx-10, but hasn't cleared it yet. And while we cleared one wing in Naxx-25, we were completely unable to beat Patchwerk on heroic. So for us, the current content is thrilling enough as it is.
There is certainly something wrong with the current situation in that there isn't thrilling content for the more advanced raiders in the game right now. I sure hope that Blizzard add more challenging content in the future, and blame them for not having done so earlier. But I think that the anger of the people who are getting bored with WotLK being too easy now is misdirected when they say that Naxxramas should have been much harder. No. Naxxramas is close to perfect as it is. Blizzard just failed to offer the more challenging content yet. In a perfect game there is raid content for people like me AND for people like you, it shouldn't be exclusive for only one or the other. You can both lower the barrier of entry for the casuals *and* offer challenging content for the hardcore at the same time.
I love intelligent discussion of MMORPG subjects. And I have found that when people start to call each other names, the discussion goes down the drain. Thus if I have to censor terms like "moron" and inject enough political correctness into the comment section that people stop calling each other names, I will do it. Note that for example Gevlon's post on his blog where he states that it is the purpose of a guild to keep raids free of morons could easily have been rephrased as "purpose of the guild is gather people of similar skills together", and it would not have been insulting, and I would even have agreed with that. All I'm asking is that everyone phrases his opinion in a non-judgemental way, because that is the only way communication can work.
Setting the requirements needed for the raid dungeons lower than ever before is not the problem, but part of it. WoW guarantees victory and placation for everyone by now. But the standards are so low that there is no thrill involved in doing a dungeon anymore at all.
That depends for who. My guild for example is doing reasonably well in Naxx-10, but hasn't cleared it yet. And while we cleared one wing in Naxx-25, we were completely unable to beat Patchwerk on heroic. So for us, the current content is thrilling enough as it is.
There is certainly something wrong with the current situation in that there isn't thrilling content for the more advanced raiders in the game right now. I sure hope that Blizzard add more challenging content in the future, and blame them for not having done so earlier. But I think that the anger of the people who are getting bored with WotLK being too easy now is misdirected when they say that Naxxramas should have been much harder. No. Naxxramas is close to perfect as it is. Blizzard just failed to offer the more challenging content yet. In a perfect game there is raid content for people like me AND for people like you, it shouldn't be exclusive for only one or the other. You can both lower the barrier of entry for the casuals *and* offer challenging content for the hardcore at the same time.
But this whole Naxx is too easy argument is centred around one instance of the game. So Ulduar comes in and is harder. Big deal. What about the rest of the game for those people who don't raid. The normal and heroic instances? I can't imagine anyone would argue that these aren't too easy, and therefore boring, right now.
PS, I also agree that your analagy is a bad one. I agree with Longaso who posted earlier that it is more akin to editing content in 18 rated horror films to bring them down to a U rating. It's the same film, more people get to 'participate', yet all the appeal of the original is gone.
PS, I also agree that your analagy is a bad one. I agree with Longaso who posted earlier that it is more akin to editing content in 18 rated horror films to bring them down to a U rating. It's the same film, more people get to 'participate', yet all the appeal of the original is gone.
# posted by : 13/1/09 14:13
: 13/1/09 14:13
Hilarious! Presumably the ones with the most time are also the ones with the most time to go post complaints.
# posted by : 13/1/09 14:34
: 13/1/09 14:34
It's possible for a WoW player to choose to invest more or less time. Sometimes, it's not easy due to external circumstances, but it's still physically possible.
It is not possible to change your height. No amount of time investment will change it.
This gives added strength to your parody, but it also robs the joke of some reality. I agree that raiding requires too much time and project-management skill. However, the state of raiding as an e-peen meter was (and still is) about effort, not random, fixed attributes that we cannot change.
It is not possible to change your height. No amount of time investment will change it.
This gives added strength to your parody, but it also robs the joke of some reality. I agree that raiding requires too much time and project-management skill. However, the state of raiding as an e-peen meter was (and still is) about effort, not random, fixed attributes that we cannot change.
# posted by : 13/1/09 15:02
: 13/1/09 15:02
"Making raiding more casual and easy is more like removing all horror from horror movies so that everyone can watch it."
What he said.
The difference between casual / hardcore is not about the /played, not about the gear, it's about the "skill" level necessary. The current debate is less about casual vs hardcore than it is about bad vs good player, outside of two encounters (Malygos which is medium and Sarth 3D which is quite hard), there is no challenge at all for the good players... You can basically faceroll your way into Naxxramas, let's not talk about the joke that are Sartharion without adds and Archavon.
There is nothing better than the feeling that you have when you're taking up an encounter for the first time, see what it's about, elaborate a first draft of strategy and then adjust details tries after tries until you manage to make it work... First time we went into Naxx 25, we were 23, a lot of us freshly 80 without even an heroic under our belt, we cleared three wings with maybe 4 wipes total, one of those on the trash... Maybe you enjoy that, I don't... I play for the adrenalin of the first kill, not the purple thing in the end, right now adrenalin shots are few and far between.
What he said.
The difference between casual / hardcore is not about the /played, not about the gear, it's about the "skill" level necessary. The current debate is less about casual vs hardcore than it is about bad vs good player, outside of two encounters (Malygos which is medium and Sarth 3D which is quite hard), there is no challenge at all for the good players... You can basically faceroll your way into Naxxramas, let's not talk about the joke that are Sartharion without adds and Archavon.
There is nothing better than the feeling that you have when you're taking up an encounter for the first time, see what it's about, elaborate a first draft of strategy and then adjust details tries after tries until you manage to make it work... First time we went into Naxx 25, we were 23, a lot of us freshly 80 without even an heroic under our belt, we cleared three wings with maybe 4 wipes total, one of those on the trash... Maybe you enjoy that, I don't... I play for the adrenalin of the first kill, not the purple thing in the end, right now adrenalin shots are few and far between.
# posted by : 13/1/09 15:19
: 13/1/09 15:19
I'll go with it. Right now, Disney is making all of the adults at the partk ride the Tea Cups and you think that is good. Afterall, the children pay the same (well actually they pay less) so designing rides that adults and children can both enjoy together is the way to go right?
And now you have the kids and adults all playing on the merry-go-round together while the next big ride is being built by Disney. This next ride will allow children and adults alike to ride but the kid version goes half the speed and doesn't go through any loops. Also the adults get a special T-shirt if everyone rides the entire ride without holding onto the bars in front of them and thier pictures get taken with Mickey Mouse if they take of their seat belts and all change cars halfway through the ride while it is moving.
Looking at this from either side, I feel somewhat cheated. As a child, I want to go on the adult ride and not some kiddie version. I want a shot at the free T-shirt and mouse picture, but I can't because I can't convince my friends to go onto the adult version with me. They just want to ride the kiddie ride over and over again and don't really care about the free T-shirt or a picture with Mickey Mouse. Eventually, we all get bored with the kid version of the ride but, no one ever wants to go on the adult version. In the end we just ride the kid version of the ride for the next three months until a new ride is released.
As an adult I want the ride to move faster. I dislike the versions of the track that I share with the kid version as I find them slow and mundane. Additionally, the adult version just gives me one extra upside down loop and a lot of hassle for a T-shirt and mouse picture. Also, my tour group is short a few adults so we grabbed a few kids to work on the free T-shirts; They keep holding onto the bars and won't let go.
And now you have the kids and adults all playing on the merry-go-round together while the next big ride is being built by Disney. This next ride will allow children and adults alike to ride but the kid version goes half the speed and doesn't go through any loops. Also the adults get a special T-shirt if everyone rides the entire ride without holding onto the bars in front of them and thier pictures get taken with Mickey Mouse if they take of their seat belts and all change cars halfway through the ride while it is moving.
Looking at this from either side, I feel somewhat cheated. As a child, I want to go on the adult ride and not some kiddie version. I want a shot at the free T-shirt and mouse picture, but I can't because I can't convince my friends to go onto the adult version with me. They just want to ride the kiddie ride over and over again and don't really care about the free T-shirt or a picture with Mickey Mouse. Eventually, we all get bored with the kid version of the ride but, no one ever wants to go on the adult version. In the end we just ride the kid version of the ride for the next three months until a new ride is released.
As an adult I want the ride to move faster. I dislike the versions of the track that I share with the kid version as I find them slow and mundane. Additionally, the adult version just gives me one extra upside down loop and a lot of hassle for a T-shirt and mouse picture. Also, my tour group is short a few adults so we grabbed a few kids to work on the free T-shirts; They keep holding onto the bars and won't let go.
# posted by : 13/1/09 15:39
: 13/1/09 15:39
Just Priceless. I absolutely MUST include this on the next podcast. What surprises me is not that an explanation was needed so much as the fact that you were right that it WAS needed. I am also surprised by elitist attitudes that the post ticks off.
JUlie Whitefeather
JUlie Whitefeather
# posted by : 13/1/09 15:43
: 13/1/09 15:43
It's possible for a WoW player to choose to invest more or less time. Sometimes, it's not easy due to external circumstances, but it's still physically possible. It is not possible to change your height. No amount of time investment will change it. This gives added strength to your parody, but it also robs the joke of some reality.
Of course every parody, like any comparison, is flawed. But regarding your points I have 2 comments:
1) I agree that a WoW player can decide to play more, and learn to play better. But the people who call those who play less well "morons" imply with that insult that the bad player is unable to play better, not just unwilling.
2) Who decides how good / much you have to play to be allowed in a 10-man dungeon? Let's assume for a moment that there are players who don't know how to move out of a fire, and who less damage than a hunter pet. How can anyone claim that Naxx is too easy, when obviously if you would put 10 of these "morons and slackers" together, they would wipe repeatedly in the current Naxx-10? I think it is more a problem of bad raid organization, where a raid has 8 or 9 very good players, and 1 or 2 players that are not so good, and the better player feel they are carrying the less good players. That isn't a problem of game design, it is one of guild management. There are quite a lot of guilds out there who have just mixed success in Naxxramas, and frequently wipe there. If a typical raid group of average players goes into the first raid dungeon and wipes a couple of times, and then downs a few bosses, that is exactly the right difficulty level FOR AN ENTRY LEVEL RAID DUNGEON. The lack of an advanced level raid dungeon is bad, but that is a totally different problem.
Of course every parody, like any comparison, is flawed. But regarding your points I have 2 comments:
1) I agree that a WoW player can decide to play more, and learn to play better. But the people who call those who play less well "morons" imply with that insult that the bad player is unable to play better, not just unwilling.
2) Who decides how good / much you have to play to be allowed in a 10-man dungeon? Let's assume for a moment that there are players who don't know how to move out of a fire, and who less damage than a hunter pet. How can anyone claim that Naxx is too easy, when obviously if you would put 10 of these "morons and slackers" together, they would wipe repeatedly in the current Naxx-10? I think it is more a problem of bad raid organization, where a raid has 8 or 9 very good players, and 1 or 2 players that are not so good, and the better player feel they are carrying the less good players. That isn't a problem of game design, it is one of guild management. There are quite a lot of guilds out there who have just mixed success in Naxxramas, and frequently wipe there. If a typical raid group of average players goes into the first raid dungeon and wipes a couple of times, and then downs a few bosses, that is exactly the right difficulty level FOR AN ENTRY LEVEL RAID DUNGEON. The lack of an advanced level raid dungeon is bad, but that is a totally different problem.
Lol WIN!
Once I am done riding Pirates of the Carribean and Indiana Jones at 6 feet tall, It will unlock space mountain. So help me, down the line after I have been on Space Mountain 100 plus times, I want you to open up the Matterhorn and I will be VERY pissed if you let the under 6 feet tall people into Space Mountain without requiring them to wait in line and complete Pirates and Indiana first. Oh, and I want a title for riding those first. And you should remove it when everyone can get into Space Mountain. Eff it, Im going to Great America where all the hardcore riders are.
Once I am done riding Pirates of the Carribean and Indiana Jones at 6 feet tall, It will unlock space mountain. So help me, down the line after I have been on Space Mountain 100 plus times, I want you to open up the Matterhorn and I will be VERY pissed if you let the under 6 feet tall people into Space Mountain without requiring them to wait in line and complete Pirates and Indiana first. Oh, and I want a title for riding those first. And you should remove it when everyone can get into Space Mountain. Eff it, Im going to Great America where all the hardcore riders are.
You could just go the RMT route and buy the 'front of the line' pass from Disney. Sure you pay more and 'finish' the park in half the time, leaving you bored, but still, YOU GOT TO SKIP AHEAD!
Centuri makes a good point in his comment though, it goes both ways. 'Disney' removed all the fast rides, and convert everything into a kids ride. Then said 'but if you go on the ride blindfolded and wear blue shoes, you get a t-shirt achievement'. I'm sure that does it for everyone, a t-shirt instead of Space Mountain.
Not to mention the analogy would be a bit more correct if we said "Disney will only allow you to ride Space Mountain if this is your 5th visit, and you have put in your time on the slower rides to learn proper 'fast ride' technique". Still excludes some, but technically anyone who visits COULD ride Space Mountain eventually, it will just take the 'casual' park visitor a bit longer, while keeping Space Mountain tuned for those that want the fastest ride possible.
Centuri makes a good point in his comment though, it goes both ways. 'Disney' removed all the fast rides, and convert everything into a kids ride. Then said 'but if you go on the ride blindfolded and wear blue shoes, you get a t-shirt achievement'. I'm sure that does it for everyone, a t-shirt instead of Space Mountain.
Not to mention the analogy would be a bit more correct if we said "Disney will only allow you to ride Space Mountain if this is your 5th visit, and you have put in your time on the slower rides to learn proper 'fast ride' technique". Still excludes some, but technically anyone who visits COULD ride Space Mountain eventually, it will just take the 'casual' park visitor a bit longer, while keeping Space Mountain tuned for those that want the fastest ride possible.
# posted by : 13/1/09 16:27
: 13/1/09 16:27
Have park customers collect garbage around the park. Those the collected the most get to go ride the special rides.
That would be more accurate in the case of a game :) It fails though as everyone paid to get in the park, and should get to go on the rides (except for safety concerns).
That would be more accurate in the case of a game :) It fails though as everyone paid to get in the park, and should get to go on the rides (except for safety concerns).
# posted by : 13/1/09 16:43
: 13/1/09 16:43
I feel this is a oversimplification of a more complex issue. Certainly there is an absolute element akin to height at play in allowing people to do certain types of raiding. Time available is a hard cap on some people. As with height, no effort can overcome this. However, there are other factors in raiding and indeed, in any game of any type that players can work on over time and improve. Indeed, one theory of gaming is that this improvement is what is fun, that getting better is the fun in games. Obviously, this is not the only fun.
So the question is, how are players progressing through content. How long are the elite challenged? How long are the majority challenged? You can't tailor your content for either tail of the standard distribution curve. Given that there are 17 raid bosses (I think) in LK, Plus Heroic Bosses and Normal Difficutly bosses, the question must be asked.. how is this field of targets challenging the playerbase?
At this point I am not sure. Certainly Naxx 10 and 25 are very easy for dedicated, experienced, skilled raiders.
I have also seen Naxx 10 and 25 Pugged with various levels of success. The problem with pug success seems to stem more from the complications of getting pugs back together for multiple nights during the same week.
Guilds that are organized but not dedicated or experienced seem to be making substantial progress in Naxx weekly.
If I had to guess I would say that probably the majority of guilds will have Naxx 25 on "Farm" within the next month.
Given that is, at best, 50% of a content patch cycle, it seems that Blizzard will have tuned the content such that the majority of players interested and willing to raid will have no challenges for the majority of the patch cycle.
In Summary, Blizzard effort to reduce the 'height requirement' for raiding, by reducing consumable use, making 10 and 25 man content, and reworking the buff system have all been net positives for WoW. However, their tuning of raid difficulty has lead to a situation where the majority of their raid-able players will not have any challenge for the majority of their patch cycle. Not everyone complaining that raids are too easy is wishing for the full return of the 'old days'. Indeed, you may soon join the ranks of people wishing for more challenge.
So the question is, how are players progressing through content. How long are the elite challenged? How long are the majority challenged? You can't tailor your content for either tail of the standard distribution curve. Given that there are 17 raid bosses (I think) in LK, Plus Heroic Bosses and Normal Difficutly bosses, the question must be asked.. how is this field of targets challenging the playerbase?
At this point I am not sure. Certainly Naxx 10 and 25 are very easy for dedicated, experienced, skilled raiders.
I have also seen Naxx 10 and 25 Pugged with various levels of success. The problem with pug success seems to stem more from the complications of getting pugs back together for multiple nights during the same week.
Guilds that are organized but not dedicated or experienced seem to be making substantial progress in Naxx weekly.
If I had to guess I would say that probably the majority of guilds will have Naxx 25 on "Farm" within the next month.
Given that is, at best, 50% of a content patch cycle, it seems that Blizzard will have tuned the content such that the majority of players interested and willing to raid will have no challenges for the majority of the patch cycle.
In Summary, Blizzard effort to reduce the 'height requirement' for raiding, by reducing consumable use, making 10 and 25 man content, and reworking the buff system have all been net positives for WoW. However, their tuning of raid difficulty has lead to a situation where the majority of their raid-able players will not have any challenge for the majority of their patch cycle. Not everyone complaining that raids are too easy is wishing for the full return of the 'old days'. Indeed, you may soon join the ranks of people wishing for more challenge.
# posted by : 13/1/09 16:45
: 13/1/09 16:45
Many MMO's have tried to make exclusive 'elite' content and have run into the same problem: almost everyone will want to access the 'elite' content and if they find it impossible they get discouraged and move to other games. Even when there is a plethora of content for everybody, if there is something that only certain players can access, that content becomes more desirable for the people on the outside.
If you want to use the Disney analogy... The one ride that is restricted to older/taller players is the one ride that everybody wants to go on. It must be better than all the other rides if it is retricted!
I thought Blizzard was handling this problem by making the elite content hard at first but then making it easier down the road. The more casual players will be busy for a while with the non-elite content anyways. Maybe this first batch of wotlk content is the non-elite content and the elite content is still to come?
I initially quit WoW once I got to level60 as I just got disgusted with the difficulty and lack of access to raid content. I guess I was a moron and slacker. I took a couple of years off and have now been back for a couple of months. I just don't care anymore. There is so much for me to do, I could never raid again and still be happily playing for a year or more.
If you want to use the Disney analogy... The one ride that is restricted to older/taller players is the one ride that everybody wants to go on. It must be better than all the other rides if it is retricted!
I thought Blizzard was handling this problem by making the elite content hard at first but then making it easier down the road. The more casual players will be busy for a while with the non-elite content anyways. Maybe this first batch of wotlk content is the non-elite content and the elite content is still to come?
I initially quit WoW once I got to level60 as I just got disgusted with the difficulty and lack of access to raid content. I guess I was a moron and slacker. I took a couple of years off and have now been back for a couple of months. I just don't care anymore. There is so much for me to do, I could never raid again and still be happily playing for a year or more.
Is it just me or did everyone arguing that content is too easy, and in effect that Blizzard is making a mistake, completely miss the point?
Tobold said "Disney was in fact more intelligent in realizing that excluding a majority of your customers from the most fun content wasn't a good business model."
Unless I'm missing the point, he's pointing out that excluding the majority of your customers from content isn't a good idea. It has nothing to do with whether or not it's right. Make the game too hard and people will cancel subscriptions. Make it too easy and the same happens, but you have to find the right balance to cater to the masses, not the few.
WoW is about money. Blizzard isn't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.
Tobold said "Disney was in fact more intelligent in realizing that excluding a majority of your customers from the most fun content wasn't a good business model."
Unless I'm missing the point, he's pointing out that excluding the majority of your customers from content isn't a good idea. It has nothing to do with whether or not it's right. Make the game too hard and people will cancel subscriptions. Make it too easy and the same happens, but you have to find the right balance to cater to the masses, not the few.
WoW is about money. Blizzard isn't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.
# posted by : 13/1/09 16:46
: 13/1/09 16:46
To recap, the easy / hard argument is not always an argument that content should either be Barbie Island Adventure or Sunwell LOL 1000 attempts is np dude. I think once the dust clears people may realize that the majority of people finishing 10 levels of leveling and then normal dungeons, heroics, 10 and 25 man naxx in 3 months might be a smidgen on the easy side.
# posted by : 13/1/09 16:51
: 13/1/09 16:51
I'm on the fence about this debate. I agree with Tobolds comment- that having easy access to raids and providing a genuine challenge for the more available ('hardcore')players should not be mutually exclusive. You can have both. The reason we don't is probably due to the time to press of wrath, if it had been released with Uludar it may or may not have prevented this argument.
Elite players not enjoying the content due to it not being challenging enough is a very valid argument. What really annoys me however, is that the few 'elite' (available) players that seem to base their enjoyment of the game on whether people with less time can reach it aswell, rather than just enjoying what they are doing themselves. Seriously it is just a game!
My main gripe though.
For people who drone on about 'skill' being the divider here. IMHO, in the PvE context I don't really understand what people think they are referring to. Aside from knowing your class, i.e. itemising correctly and selecting appropriate talents, which can be researched in 3 minutes on google by anyone (not skill, time), I don't see how 'skill' has much of a bearing on this argument. Assuming two players, same class with identical talents and gear, (take mage for example), is one going to do significantly more damage? Spell rotations? Not standing in the fire? If you are someone who calls the execution of sequencial button pressing 'skill' then it has been too long since you went to watch an ice hockey game or something. This theory doesn't necessarily apply to healers and tanks. If someone calls themselves 'skilled' at WoW, get another Hobby. If someone calls themselves experienced, I will readily agree with you. Experience = practice = time. Time is your divider, not 'skill'.
PvP is different of course. Two identical rogues for example, duelling, for one to be more skilled would likely make a huge impact on outcome.
Elite players not enjoying the content due to it not being challenging enough is a very valid argument. What really annoys me however, is that the few 'elite' (available) players that seem to base their enjoyment of the game on whether people with less time can reach it aswell, rather than just enjoying what they are doing themselves. Seriously it is just a game!
My main gripe though.
For people who drone on about 'skill' being the divider here. IMHO, in the PvE context I don't really understand what people think they are referring to. Aside from knowing your class, i.e. itemising correctly and selecting appropriate talents, which can be researched in 3 minutes on google by anyone (not skill, time), I don't see how 'skill' has much of a bearing on this argument. Assuming two players, same class with identical talents and gear, (take mage for example), is one going to do significantly more damage? Spell rotations? Not standing in the fire? If you are someone who calls the execution of sequencial button pressing 'skill' then it has been too long since you went to watch an ice hockey game or something. This theory doesn't necessarily apply to healers and tanks. If someone calls themselves 'skilled' at WoW, get another Hobby. If someone calls themselves experienced, I will readily agree with you. Experience = practice = time. Time is your divider, not 'skill'.
PvP is different of course. Two identical rogues for example, duelling, for one to be more skilled would likely make a huge impact on outcome.
# posted by : 13/1/09 17:05
: 13/1/09 17:05
Wow's raiding does seem to combine a couple elements that bring out the worst in people (competetive looting, a game based on "achievement" and status). It does seem to produce a lot more whining and complaining, as everyone wants the game oriented so they get the rewards with as much status and fun from the challenge as possible.
Dear Disney,
The new adjustable safety harnesses are great, but I am somewhat disappointed by the lack of roller coasters.
Yours,
Shalkis
The new adjustable safety harnesses are great, but I am somewhat disappointed by the lack of roller coasters.
Yours,
Shalkis
I personally, being 5'8 think that the only height allowed on said rides should be 5'8. All of those of you that are taller are enormous ogres that obviously can't enjoy that type of ride and anyone shorter just isn't tall enough to be let on. . .
LOL
LOL
Tobold said: Note that for example Gevlon's post on his blog where he states that it is the purpose of a guild to keep raids free of morons could easily have been rephrased as "purpose of the guild is gather people of similar skills together", and it would not have been insulting, and I would even have agreed with that. All I'm asking is that everyone phrases his opinion in a non-judgemental way, because that is the only way communication can work.
Gevlon uses the term "moron" in the same way that people use the term "noob", "tard", "wanker", "whiner" or what have you. He does so on his own blog, and in a way that emphasizes his writing style and drives the point home that some people just dont have the proper skill required to function at a certain level, at a given point in time. Taking exception to one or two words when the main point is lost in the process is NOT the authors fault, it's the readers fault. You want Gevlon to refrain from using language that apparently irks your sensibilities, yet you were the first to cry foul when people opinionated themselves about whether you should be making political posts on a predominantly gaming focused blog. I sense a double standard here, and you should realize that in a non moderated enviroment, you cannot and should not attempt to censor what people say, or how they say it. It doesnt take an english major to understand where Mevlon is coming from in terms of his overall dilemna with player skill as it pertains to the difficulty(or lack of) of current raid content. His writing style might not be as refined as you or I might want it to be, but I'm still able to absorb the gist of his concerns.
Moron - Etymology: irregular from Greek "mōros" meaning foolish, stupid.
The player who yelled "Leeroy Jenkins!" did something completely foolish and stupid when he ran amuck in the rookery in the now infamous UBRS video, and I'm 100% certain that more than a few people considered him a moron for doing so. However, in retrospect, everyone now has an understanding of what -not- to do in similar group situations.
There, I just called Leeroy Jenkins a moron. Or did I? =P
Gevlon uses the term "moron" in the same way that people use the term "noob", "tard", "wanker", "whiner" or what have you. He does so on his own blog, and in a way that emphasizes his writing style and drives the point home that some people just dont have the proper skill required to function at a certain level, at a given point in time. Taking exception to one or two words when the main point is lost in the process is NOT the authors fault, it's the readers fault. You want Gevlon to refrain from using language that apparently irks your sensibilities, yet you were the first to cry foul when people opinionated themselves about whether you should be making political posts on a predominantly gaming focused blog. I sense a double standard here, and you should realize that in a non moderated enviroment, you cannot and should not attempt to censor what people say, or how they say it. It doesnt take an english major to understand where Mevlon is coming from in terms of his overall dilemna with player skill as it pertains to the difficulty(or lack of) of current raid content. His writing style might not be as refined as you or I might want it to be, but I'm still able to absorb the gist of his concerns.
Moron - Etymology: irregular from Greek "mōros" meaning foolish, stupid.
The player who yelled "Leeroy Jenkins!" did something completely foolish and stupid when he ran amuck in the rookery in the now infamous UBRS video, and I'm 100% certain that more than a few people considered him a moron for doing so. However, in retrospect, everyone now has an understanding of what -not- to do in similar group situations.
There, I just called Leeroy Jenkins a moron. Or did I? =P
He does so on his own blog
Which I wouldn't complain about. Unfortunately he uses the same words in the comment section of *this* blog, at which point it becomes my problem. It isn't even a question of how he *meant* it, and whether it is consistent with the writing style on his blog (it is). But my other readers here do not necessarily know Gevlon, and just see a comment which basically says "people raiding less well are morons". I would have accepted "noob", but reserve my right to censor "moron", "retard", "wanker", and similar insults. These terms might fit on Gevlon's blog, but they sure don't fit on this one.
Or, why is it okay for Gevlon to demand a minimum level of skill to be allowed to raid, but not okay for me to demand a minimum politeness to be allowed to comment?
Which I wouldn't complain about. Unfortunately he uses the same words in the comment section of *this* blog, at which point it becomes my problem. It isn't even a question of how he *meant* it, and whether it is consistent with the writing style on his blog (it is). But my other readers here do not necessarily know Gevlon, and just see a comment which basically says "people raiding less well are morons". I would have accepted "noob", but reserve my right to censor "moron", "retard", "wanker", and similar insults. These terms might fit on Gevlon's blog, but they sure don't fit on this one.
Or, why is it okay for Gevlon to demand a minimum level of skill to be allowed to raid, but not okay for me to demand a minimum politeness to be allowed to comment?
The player who yelled "Leeroy Jenkins!" did something completely foolish and stupid when he ran amuck in the rookery in the now infamous UBRS video, and I'm 100% certain that more than a few people considered him a moron for doing so. However, in retrospect, everyone now has an understanding of what -not- to do in similar group situations.
I have heard that the video was not an actual instance run, but was made deliberately. (Not that this changes the point of the post in any way.)
Also, whether or not the "moron" description applies to a particular case, it isn't really useful to talk about "morons", "noobs", etc. in general, because we don't know know about the encounters, the people involved, the guild organization and expectation involved, etc., in these general situations. In most cases "noob", "moron", "slacker", etc., seem a way to insult people who are less skilled, instead of simply saying "less skilled" (or busier, less experienced, etc.).
I personally, being 5'8 think that the only height allowed on said rides should be 5'8. All of those of you that are taller are enormous ogres that obviously can't enjoy that type of ride and anyone shorter just isn't tall enough to be let on. . .
Yes, this does seem the most common opinion.
I have heard that the video was not an actual instance run, but was made deliberately. (Not that this changes the point of the post in any way.)
Also, whether or not the "moron" description applies to a particular case, it isn't really useful to talk about "morons", "noobs", etc. in general, because we don't know know about the encounters, the people involved, the guild organization and expectation involved, etc., in these general situations. In most cases "noob", "moron", "slacker", etc., seem a way to insult people who are less skilled, instead of simply saying "less skilled" (or busier, less experienced, etc.).
I personally, being 5'8 think that the only height allowed on said rides should be 5'8. All of those of you that are taller are enormous ogres that obviously can't enjoy that type of ride and anyone shorter just isn't tall enough to be let on. . .
Yes, this does seem the most common opinion.
Those that are saying "everyone has to ride the Tea Cups", please explain how you determine that? Have you asked "everyone" if they feel that Nexx is akin to Tea Cup rides?
I think the people who find Naxx easy think they are in the majority. The people who are fine with Naxx the way it is think they are in the majority.
I don't know the answer to that in any empirical way and I wouldn't trust anyone's anecdotal data because people tend to know others similar to themselves.
Clearly under these circumstances it behooves us to advocate for "something for everyone".
I think the people who find Naxx easy think they are in the majority. The people who are fine with Naxx the way it is think they are in the majority.
I don't know the answer to that in any empirical way and I wouldn't trust anyone's anecdotal data because people tend to know others similar to themselves.
Clearly under these circumstances it behooves us to advocate for "something for everyone".
# posted by : 13/1/09 20:26
: 13/1/09 20:26
Dude I would chill out, its an old old argument, a lot of people feel that way because they're people, and you'll never win the argument. People feel that way for non-rational reasons. So leave players alone and let them be gear snobs if that's what they want to do. There's simply too many people playing.
# posted by : 13/1/09 21:03
: 13/1/09 21:03
Setting the height limit so low forces the ride designers to design rides that aren't too risky for those of this incredibly low height, and so my enjoyment is much lower than it could be. I'm canceling my annual pass to Disneyland this year, and taking my admission money somewhere the height limits are set at a realistic height.
Disable anonymous comments. Please.
Dear Alpine Skiers,
The EU has decided that steep inclines of many of the favored ski resort areas in the Alps were too steep and not friendly to newer skiers. In an effort to make things fair for everyone the Alps have been flattened into a series of slow sloping hills that make them more enjoyable for everyone.
We found the old system of assigning difficulty grades to varying slopes, left many newer skiers feeling a bit left out. Rather than requiring them to learn to actually learn to ski in order to fully enjoy Alpine skiing we simply lowered the difficulty curve for the entire Alpine region.
We have not completely forgotten about our best skiers though! In the upcoming season, which starts approximately three months from now, we will continue to keep the slopes at the bunny level of difficulty in order to make them accessible to the most inept tourists. However, look for exciting obstacles on the hill that allow completely optional increases in difficulty!
Sincerely,
Alpine Mountain Mgmt.
~~
It’s just as an outrageous premise that shows it from the other side. People that are expert snow skiers should not have to loose out on doing what they enjoy to cater to inept tourists.
The Alps shouldn't be nerfed. Bad skiers should be forced to learn how to ski.
Dear Alpine Skiers,
The EU has decided that steep inclines of many of the favored ski resort areas in the Alps were too steep and not friendly to newer skiers. In an effort to make things fair for everyone the Alps have been flattened into a series of slow sloping hills that make them more enjoyable for everyone.
We found the old system of assigning difficulty grades to varying slopes, left many newer skiers feeling a bit left out. Rather than requiring them to learn to actually learn to ski in order to fully enjoy Alpine skiing we simply lowered the difficulty curve for the entire Alpine region.
We have not completely forgotten about our best skiers though! In the upcoming season, which starts approximately three months from now, we will continue to keep the slopes at the bunny level of difficulty in order to make them accessible to the most inept tourists. However, look for exciting obstacles on the hill that allow completely optional increases in difficulty!
Sincerely,
Alpine Mountain Mgmt.
~~
It’s just as an outrageous premise that shows it from the other side. People that are expert snow skiers should not have to loose out on doing what they enjoy to cater to inept tourists.
The Alps shouldn't be nerfed. Bad skiers should be forced to learn how to ski.
# posted by : 13/1/09 22:01
: 13/1/09 22:01
The Alps shouldn't be nerfed. Bad skiers should be forced to learn how to ski.
I'm pretty certain that the slopes in the Alps have been designed for maximum popularity. Tourism there would die out if there were only slopes of "black" difficulty level. So the people staking out the slopes offer every degree of difficulty from the lowest to the highest. Why would you demand WoW to be different? And yes, I agree that the highest difficulty is currently missing in WoW, but that isn't the fault of those for who easier slopes are more suitable. While I wish Blizzard would offer more raid dungeons faster, I can see the wisdom of offering easy raid dungeons *first*. Both because starting hard and then going to easy like in patch 3.0.2 isn't terribly clever, and because there are more people who can use the easy slopes than can use the hard slopes.
I'm pretty certain that the slopes in the Alps have been designed for maximum popularity. Tourism there would die out if there were only slopes of "black" difficulty level. So the people staking out the slopes offer every degree of difficulty from the lowest to the highest. Why would you demand WoW to be different? And yes, I agree that the highest difficulty is currently missing in WoW, but that isn't the fault of those for who easier slopes are more suitable. While I wish Blizzard would offer more raid dungeons faster, I can see the wisdom of offering easy raid dungeons *first*. Both because starting hard and then going to easy like in patch 3.0.2 isn't terribly clever, and because there are more people who can use the easy slopes than can use the hard slopes.
Why don't we have servers for hardcores and servers for casuals. This way, we don't have to hear about elite raiders complain about "morons" and "slackers", and casual players complain about "elitists".
Blizzard doesn't even have to do anything different other than put a label like "PVP" or "Roleplaying" on the server list and let players self select. The categories can be "Hardcore Raiders", "Hardcore Soloist/Small Group", "Casual Raiders" and "Casual Soloist/Small Group".
Blizzard doesn't even have to do anything different other than put a label like "PVP" or "Roleplaying" on the server list and let players self select. The categories can be "Hardcore Raiders", "Hardcore Soloist/Small Group", "Casual Raiders" and "Casual Soloist/Small Group".
# posted by : 13/1/09 22:44
: 13/1/09 22:44
First, I'd like to say I enjoyed the analogy for the wit, sarcasm, and discussion it provoked.
Second, (as a short person) I found it interesting that a few commenters seemed to equate short with being young. I guess when I reach age 30 in a couple years, I might grow a few more feet? :P I do agree that using an attribute such as height doesn't completely translate - it gets the message across, imo. It makes you look at the situation in a different way, which some may have thought wasn't ludicrous until hearing the analogy.
Third, (and I suppose last as this is not my blog ;) Regarding the Alpine skiing analogy, I definitely don't think the slopes should get nerfed (xD) but they offer beginner slopes right from the beginning. Blizzard seems to be trying to find that balance of offering more beginner-friendly raids. Plus, in my mind, I have an easier time equating WoW with Disney World - an entertainment amusement park to vacation in when I have a chance and neither would result in injury if I didn't have some proper training first. Skiing, while it attracts tourists, is more sport that you know will require the proper equipment, training, etc. to maximize its value. And, I'm not certain, but the "price for content" may not be straight across the board for that either... and I don't need any special gear to walk into Disney World, unless that has changed. :P
Second, (as a short person) I found it interesting that a few commenters seemed to equate short with being young. I guess when I reach age 30 in a couple years, I might grow a few more feet? :P I do agree that using an attribute such as height doesn't completely translate - it gets the message across, imo. It makes you look at the situation in a different way, which some may have thought wasn't ludicrous until hearing the analogy.
Third, (and I suppose last as this is not my blog ;) Regarding the Alpine skiing analogy, I definitely don't think the slopes should get nerfed (xD) but they offer beginner slopes right from the beginning. Blizzard seems to be trying to find that balance of offering more beginner-friendly raids. Plus, in my mind, I have an easier time equating WoW with Disney World - an entertainment amusement park to vacation in when I have a chance and neither would result in injury if I didn't have some proper training first. Skiing, while it attracts tourists, is more sport that you know will require the proper equipment, training, etc. to maximize its value. And, I'm not certain, but the "price for content" may not be straight across the board for that either... and I don't need any special gear to walk into Disney World, unless that has changed. :P
# posted by : 13/1/09 23:01
: 13/1/09 23:01
*facepalm* I just had to check back to see the comment above mine... just after I posted it.
It would not solve the problem at all to have "hardcore" realms and "casual" realms. First off, not all "casuals" can even agree on what that definition means. Secondly, people already struggle with selecting realms now. For example, people on PvP servers that complain about getting ganked. Or people on RP servers (especially, RP-PvP servers) that do NO RP and grief those who do...and when asked they say they didn't know what RP meant or that they thought RP-PvP meant they could just come PvP.
It would not solve the problem at all to have "hardcore" realms and "casual" realms. First off, not all "casuals" can even agree on what that definition means. Secondly, people already struggle with selecting realms now. For example, people on PvP servers that complain about getting ganked. Or people on RP servers (especially, RP-PvP servers) that do NO RP and grief those who do...and when asked they say they didn't know what RP meant or that they thought RP-PvP meant they could just come PvP.
# posted by : 13/1/09 23:07
: 13/1/09 23:07
i understand your meaning and your jest tob, but..
while i dont agree with gevlon's opinion, this is a lame (read: weak) attempt to criticize's him. your disney analogy is way wrong, people riding on disneyland dont do anything but sit and enjoy it, and in WOW or any other mmo you are expected to perform within minimum level (healers heal, tankers tank, dpser dps etc). its not enjoyable to run a dungeon with people who do not perform adequately.. this happen often with PuG runs..
while i dont agree with gevlon's opinion, this is a lame (read: weak) attempt to criticize's him. your disney analogy is way wrong, people riding on disneyland dont do anything but sit and enjoy it, and in WOW or any other mmo you are expected to perform within minimum level (healers heal, tankers tank, dpser dps etc). its not enjoyable to run a dungeon with people who do not perform adequately.. this happen often with PuG runs..
# posted by : 14/1/09 03:09
: 14/1/09 03:09
Interesting ;) The Blessing of Kings blog has done the other side of this as well. As a new player (under six months) I'm really enjoying playing 'the game proper' and I don't think I'm 'hardcore enough' to play the raids. Why? Because I play for fun, not to dance through a pre-set dance-mat of moves in order to win. When I get to the stage where I can actually participate, I don't want to be yelled at because I haven't read this article there, or that article there. I want to play, experiment, and work my way through it. Now I *know* this might annoy other players, but I'm sure the understanding people who realise that the more new players who experience and learn NOW means more experienced peopel to help them later.
Any elitist attitude to playing games sets my hackles rising, and turns me off. And believe me, you don't want people quitting on a successful game. You want to educate them so that they stay and pay - and bring more moeny and expansion to the game - or you want them to stay and LEARN so they get better when you bring in your new 'ultra-hard-3d-loop-the-loop-slay-the-terminator-ride' type thing.
Hmm, crossed metaphor analogy. Must be the breakfast talking...
Any elitist attitude to playing games sets my hackles rising, and turns me off. And believe me, you don't want people quitting on a successful game. You want to educate them so that they stay and pay - and bring more moeny and expansion to the game - or you want them to stay and LEARN so they get better when you bring in your new 'ultra-hard-3d-loop-the-loop-slay-the-terminator-ride' type thing.
Hmm, crossed metaphor analogy. Must be the breakfast talking...
Everyone looked at the 'Giant' roller coaster with envy. "Not fair, we can't go on it. Yes, there are a thousand other rides out there, but that is the one we want to go on. It only opens at night, and we have to be in bed by 6. Open the doors, make it open to everyone!"
So the 'Giant' roller coaster was knocked down, and a much smaller one was built in its place, and it was open all day long, but they called it the 'Heroic' roller coaster so that people could still brag about having gone on it.
It was a great success, although it still took as much time to queue as the 'Giant' one did, the only difference was the ride was a lot less fast, had fewer bends, and was over in moments.
The people who used to ride the 'Giant' were upset about how poor the new ride was compared to the old, and besides, they could no longer brag about how 'leet' they were compared to all the morons and slackers who didn't or couldn't stay up past bedtime.
The park owners suggested to them that perhaps they ought to try the ride wearing Pirate hats or Fozzy Bear costumes, and if they did they would get a piece of paper to state that they had indeed ridden the 'Heroic' wearing a silly costume.
So that is what they did, and everyone lived happily ever after.
The end.
So the 'Giant' roller coaster was knocked down, and a much smaller one was built in its place, and it was open all day long, but they called it the 'Heroic' roller coaster so that people could still brag about having gone on it.
It was a great success, although it still took as much time to queue as the 'Giant' one did, the only difference was the ride was a lot less fast, had fewer bends, and was over in moments.
The people who used to ride the 'Giant' were upset about how poor the new ride was compared to the old, and besides, they could no longer brag about how 'leet' they were compared to all the morons and slackers who didn't or couldn't stay up past bedtime.
The park owners suggested to them that perhaps they ought to try the ride wearing Pirate hats or Fozzy Bear costumes, and if they did they would get a piece of paper to state that they had indeed ridden the 'Heroic' wearing a silly costume.
So that is what they did, and everyone lived happily ever after.
The end.
# posted by : 14/1/09 14:10
: 14/1/09 14:10
Tobold -- I can see what you're getting at, but you are using a completely wrong analogy, and I'll tell you why. Disneyland *DOES* have "hardcore raiders" -- they are called "Annual Passholders"; especially those who live around Orange County or the general L.A. area, who go at least every week. I know many people who go almost every single day, to hang out with friends and socialize. To them, the park is "theirs" and they don't go to the parks to ride attractions so much as to go where they feel most comfortable and happiest, and where they can sit and have lunch with their friends and socialize.
A minority of the "APers" *DO* feel a sense of entitlement. They believe that because they are there all the time, they know the park better than everyone else. Every slight change in the park is grist for a lot of QQing ("ZOMG how dare you close Harbour Galley and replace it with McDonald's french fries! We love the curly fries and popcorn shrimp there; how dare you sell out to McDonald's!!!!!" I am totally serious, some people were upset this happened).
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A minority of the "APers" *DO* feel a sense of entitlement. They believe that because they are there all the time, they know the park better than everyone else. Every slight change in the park is grist for a lot of QQing ("ZOMG how dare you close Harbour Galley and replace it with McDonald's french fries! We love the curly fries and popcorn shrimp there; how dare you sell out to McDonald's!!!!!" I am totally serious, some people were upset this happened).
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