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Monday, November 23, 2009
Welfare cooking skill
Pretty regularly Blizzard nerfs some challenge in World of Warcraft and makes something which was previously hard to get a lot easier. That usually makes the people who couldn't do the hard achievement happy, but those who already did it on hard mode unhappy. And I must admit I'm not quite happy with the way Blizzard nerfed acquiring cooking skill in the current Pilgrim's Bounty holiday event.
Basically there is a "quest line" for the holiday event which requires you to cook various Thanksgiving types of food in various cities. And the recipes are of increasing difficulty and stay orange/yellow for a wider than usual skill range. So if you start out with zero cooking skill and just follow the quest line, making 60 food of each type plus spice bread, you'll end up with 350 cooking skill, at which point you can make a Bountyful Feast which is better than the currently best food, Fish Feast.
I used this quest line to get my paladin up to 350 cooking from zero, and it was extremely cheap, and took very little time. Well, except for the part where I absolutely wanted to have the Turkinator achievement for killing 40 turkeys with less than 30 seconds between each two turkeys killed, which is a very annoying achievement, as it fails every time you cross path with another player. I recommend Ridgepoint Tower in Elwynn Forest, as by the time you make the tour around, the first turkeys have respawned. The achievement gets slightly easier if you first do all the Pilgrim's Bounty quests, leading to you receiving the Turkey Caller.
But compared to previous methods of leveling cooking to 350, which either involved lots of farming meat, or fishing, or spending a fortune on the AH, the Pilgrim's Bounty event is giving cooking skill away far too easily. Where is the fun in leveling a tradeskill when you can level it for a handful of silver in an hour? Even if the event, and the food, only lasts for a week, the cooking skill lasts forever.
- posted by Tobold @ 6:30 AM Permanent Link
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I wonder how this post would sound if you replaced cooking with raiding and Pilgrim's bounty with Naxx/Ulduar/Icecrown.
I think it's a godsend, and much in line with blizzard giving new players and alts ways to catch up to veteran characters. I don't have numbers to back this theory up, but I imagine that the developers noticed that at this stage in the games life, not many players are taking up cooking.
So they incorporate a way to power level cooking that only comes along once a year for those who balk at the effort. I for one had no desire to level cooking up on any of my alts (and my current main) until Pilgrim's Bounty came along, since I already did the grind on my old warlock.
So they incorporate a way to power level cooking that only comes along once a year for those who balk at the effort. I for one had no desire to level cooking up on any of my alts (and my current main) until Pilgrim's Bounty came along, since I already did the grind on my old warlock.
It's been odd. People that NEVER EVER leveled cooking skill well... attained 300 within half an hour today.
For the achievement... because it was easy.
I felt quite gypped as all 10 of my toons leveled their cooking to NR level [425 plus] beforehand.
For the achievement... because it was easy.
I felt quite gypped as all 10 of my toons leveled their cooking to NR level [425 plus] beforehand.
I wonder how this post would sound if you replaced cooking with raiding and Pilgrim's bounty with Naxx/Ulduar/Icecrown.
Don't worry, if you could level through Naxx/Ulduar/Icecrown solo in one hour for a few silver, I'd complain as well.
Don't worry, if you could level through Naxx/Ulduar/Icecrown solo in one hour for a few silver, I'd complain as well.
I'm sorry Tobold, but I don't quite see your complaint sir. It's only cooking. If it was a cheap and quick way to power level enchanting, or indeed any other useful primary profession I'd agree that it's a problem. I suppose at the core I believe that cooking is possibly the least useful of all professions in my humble opinion. First aid can be useful for a quicker heal than food sometimes that can only be gained otherwise in rare potion drops. Fishing can (rarely) bring up blue drops. But Cooking brings food that does the same thing the food you get from any food vendor in any small inn across the game world! Sure there is occasionally the Savoury Deviate Delight's and Thistle Tea's of the profession but nothing overly useful or must-have. Just my 2 copper of course :)
Loyd V. The problem with you thesis is that AFAIK Tobold is the first to mention this. I didn't know about it and I've read every article on MMO Champion and WoW.com.
I'm a little shocked but I will say this. I won't miss the opportunity now that I know about it.
My guess is that Cataclysm cooking is going to be redone, so it will all be moot anyway.
I'm a little shocked but I will say this. I won't miss the opportunity now that I know about it.
My guess is that Cataclysm cooking is going to be redone, so it will all be moot anyway.
# posted by 
: 23/11/09 08:01
: 23/11/09 08:01
Was levelling cooking ever fun? The easiest way to do it without this was to level fishing at the same time, and sit at a variety of waterholes for hours on end either fishing or cooking.
This is something that's sensible to streamline and the holiday is as good a way as any.
Also, why bother doing the annoying pointless achievement once you realised it was annoying? I'd love someone to explain this to me. It just seems a bit masochistic.
This is something that's sensible to streamline and the holiday is as good a way as any.
Also, why bother doing the annoying pointless achievement once you realised it was annoying? I'd love someone to explain this to me. It just seems a bit masochistic.
# posted by : 23/11/09 08:05
: 23/11/09 08:05
"Where is the fun in leveling a tradeskill when you can level it for a handful of silver in an hour?"
Wait, wait.. I need to savoir this moment. I've been wanting to say this for ages. *cough* *ahem*
[condescending voice] Well SOME of us have real lives (tm) and jobs and families that take up most of our time. It's not fair that only the people with no real life (tm) who live in their mother's basements should get to experience high level cooking! You're just upset because you're an elitist and you want to feel better than everyone else because you have more time to play the game![/condescending voice]
Wew, oh man. That was good. I have so been waiting to say that to someone.
Now... when you get sick of all of that rubbish, come play something like Aion with the rest of us who actually find some satisfaction in earning a reward and enjoy our time, however long it takes us, getting where we're going.
Wait, wait.. I need to savoir this moment. I've been wanting to say this for ages. *cough* *ahem*
[condescending voice] Well SOME of us have real lives (tm) and jobs and families that take up most of our time. It's not fair that only the people with no real life (tm) who live in their mother's basements should get to experience high level cooking! You're just upset because you're an elitist and you want to feel better than everyone else because you have more time to play the game![/condescending voice]
Wew, oh man. That was good. I have so been waiting to say that to someone.
Now... when you get sick of all of that rubbish, come play something like Aion with the rest of us who actually find some satisfaction in earning a reward and enjoy our time, however long it takes us, getting where we're going.
Too bad I'm missing out on this. But honestly, this falls inline with the Summer Fire Festivel that helps you power level your toons.
There's really no reason for cooking to be as annoying as it is now, and maybe in Cataclysm, regular cooking will be easier too (as opposed to holiday cooking).
There's really no reason for cooking to be as annoying as it is now, and maybe in Cataclysm, regular cooking will be easier too (as opposed to holiday cooking).
I would like to second Hirvox, and point out that this is a general trend: "Welfare" raiding, epix, cooking... things being more "accessible" is fine and dandy, but they are simply going too far and dumbing everything down. It is also indeed quite insulting, as Askevar pointed out.
Fishing was ridiculously hard to level initially, over the years they made it much more easier to level, but now we are at the point where things are so "casual" that the word gets the a new, bad meaning attached to it.
It is also a weird choice to do this. They cannot produce really new content as fast as players can consume it, not even Blizzard. In former times grind bridged the gap between new content and people grinding for the old content. By no means I want to defend mindless grind, but allowing people to complete everything imagineable easier and easier, faster and fast, cannot be the answer either.
If they take away the time spent to achieve something in their game, they need to fill in some "skill required" to make it a bit more meaningful, otherwise it might get shallow for everyone, including Joe Casual who feels entitled to have it all for some odd reason.
Fishing was ridiculously hard to level initially, over the years they made it much more easier to level, but now we are at the point where things are so "casual" that the word gets the a new, bad meaning attached to it.
It is also a weird choice to do this. They cannot produce really new content as fast as players can consume it, not even Blizzard. In former times grind bridged the gap between new content and people grinding for the old content. By no means I want to defend mindless grind, but allowing people to complete everything imagineable easier and easier, faster and fast, cannot be the answer either.
If they take away the time spent to achieve something in their game, they need to fill in some "skill required" to make it a bit more meaningful, otherwise it might get shallow for everyone, including Joe Casual who feels entitled to have it all for some odd reason.
Serious players already have max cooking for about a year now.
Players who never bothered can now get the cooking skill. Serious players can get it for their alts. It's a win for both. (Even though there's very little use to get cooking on two characters).
Although I remember having to do tons of fishing to level my cooking. Plus some quest that took me all around the world.
Players who never bothered can now get the cooking skill. Serious players can get it for their alts. It's a win for both. (Even though there's very little use to get cooking on two characters).
Although I remember having to do tons of fishing to level my cooking. Plus some quest that took me all around the world.
"Don't worry, if you could level through Naxx/Ulduar/Icecrown solo in one hour for a few silver, I'd complain as well."
Not a fair comparison.
Cooking was previously levelled over the course of an afternoon using up to 1000g and a little travelling.
During 1 week (!) in the year, it can be levelled over the course of an afternoon, rewarding a handful of gold.
Hirvox and Llyod V hit the nail on the head. This is absolutely consist with Blizzard's strategy and should be embraced by players.
Not a fair comparison.
Cooking was previously levelled over the course of an afternoon using up to 1000g and a little travelling.
During 1 week (!) in the year, it can be levelled over the course of an afternoon, rewarding a handful of gold.
Hirvox and Llyod V hit the nail on the head. This is absolutely consist with Blizzard's strategy and should be embraced by players.
@Hirvox said I wonder how this post would sound if you replaced cooking with raiding and Pilgrim's bounty with Naxx/Ulduar/Icecrown.
Actually if you think about it granting easy access to a trade skill is actually worse than allowing easy access to end game raids. Giving casual players welfare epics and easy mode access to end game raids may piss off hardcore gamers but it doesn't diminish the hardcore gamers game play one bit.
On the other hand making a trade skill easy to get greatly reduces the value if the goods you can make with that trade skill and may prevent a dedicated crafter from being able to sell those goods at a profit.
Actually if you think about it granting easy access to a trade skill is actually worse than allowing easy access to end game raids. Giving casual players welfare epics and easy mode access to end game raids may piss off hardcore gamers but it doesn't diminish the hardcore gamers game play one bit.
On the other hand making a trade skill easy to get greatly reduces the value if the goods you can make with that trade skill and may prevent a dedicated crafter from being able to sell those goods at a profit.
@Spinks
"Also, why bother doing the annoying pointless achievement once you realised it was annoying? I'd love someone to explain this to me. It just seems a bit masochistic."
Welcome to hardmodes.
Help yourself to spiced apple cider and mince pies, the head/wall bashing will commence in about 5 minutes.
"Also, why bother doing the annoying pointless achievement once you realised it was annoying? I'd love someone to explain this to me. It just seems a bit masochistic."
Welcome to hardmodes.
Help yourself to spiced apple cider and mince pies, the head/wall bashing will commence in about 5 minutes.
Don't worry, if you could level through Naxx/Ulduar/Icecrown solo in one hour for a few silver, I'd complain as well.
So, we've established the fairness of the concept of a shortcut, and are simply haggling about the price?
What would you define as the shortest acceptable anti-grinding shortcut? Conversely, what would be the longest still-acceptable grind? What is the proper price range for 350 cooking?
So, we've established the fairness of the concept of a shortcut, and are simply haggling about the price?
What would you define as the shortest acceptable anti-grinding shortcut? Conversely, what would be the longest still-acceptable grind? What is the proper price range for 350 cooking?
"There's really no reason for cooking to be as annoying as it is now,"
I'm amazed at the direction complaints towards MMOs have taken over the last year or so. It seems all the things that made MMOs what they were are suddenly anathema to players.
It seems like so many people hate most of the many small things that have always been part of an MMO.
Questing, grinding, grouping, craft skills, everyone seems to be trying to find a way to make them go past more quickly... It's like saying: "I love playing football... except the part where you go outside, work as a team or have to kick a ball. That part sucks and I try to get it over with as soon as I can because it's annoying."
Seriously, how long till we realize that for some people, if they actually hate 90% of the game and don't have time for most of it, they just shouldn't be playing an MMO?
I'm amazed at the direction complaints towards MMOs have taken over the last year or so. It seems all the things that made MMOs what they were are suddenly anathema to players.
It seems like so many people hate most of the many small things that have always been part of an MMO.
Questing, grinding, grouping, craft skills, everyone seems to be trying to find a way to make them go past more quickly... It's like saying: "I love playing football... except the part where you go outside, work as a team or have to kick a ball. That part sucks and I try to get it over with as soon as I can because it's annoying."
Seriously, how long till we realize that for some people, if they actually hate 90% of the game and don't have time for most of it, they just shouldn't be playing an MMO?
"I didn't know about it and I've read every article on MMO Champion and WoW.com."
The MMO Champion article on the holiday actually mentioned this. I probably wouldn't have paid enough attention to notice it myself.
I leveled up cooking normally on one character, and I found it entertaining: traveling around the world, mass-killing various beasts. But I had no desire to do it on any other character. It isn't that useful, except that fish feasts require 420 cooking to even place. Now, if I want to put them down, I am that much closer to it.
The MMO Champion article on the holiday actually mentioned this. I probably wouldn't have paid enough attention to notice it myself.
I leveled up cooking normally on one character, and I found it entertaining: traveling around the world, mass-killing various beasts. But I had no desire to do it on any other character. It isn't that useful, except that fish feasts require 420 cooking to even place. Now, if I want to put them down, I am that much closer to it.
# posted by : 23/11/09 11:12
: 23/11/09 11:12
I love the cooking boost from Pilgrim's Bounty, because it bypasses the most annoying thing about the cooking profession: recipes. With other professions, you can level them straight into Northrend stats as long as you have the mats, because trainers have all the recipes you need. Sure, there are some other recipes here and there, but they aren't needed to level up.
But with cooking, you have to go out and scour the globe for out-of-the-way vendors (like the goblin caravan in Desolace that only sells stuff for five minutes out of every thirty), quests, and rare drops. And that's in addition to getting the actual materials.
This is even more of a problem after nerfing the pre-Wrath content, because your class level will usually quickly outpace your cooking level, so you'll be stuck at Cooking 105 and the recipes you're getting start requiring 120+, and in order to get there you'd have to go back to old areas just to get the meat for cooking.
I just wish there was a similar easy way to level fishing, because that's probably the most boring thing in the whole game, requiring just enough attention that you can't just leave the computer on autopilot.
But with cooking, you have to go out and scour the globe for out-of-the-way vendors (like the goblin caravan in Desolace that only sells stuff for five minutes out of every thirty), quests, and rare drops. And that's in addition to getting the actual materials.
This is even more of a problem after nerfing the pre-Wrath content, because your class level will usually quickly outpace your cooking level, so you'll be stuck at Cooking 105 and the recipes you're getting start requiring 120+, and in order to get there you'd have to go back to old areas just to get the meat for cooking.
I just wish there was a similar easy way to level fishing, because that's probably the most boring thing in the whole game, requiring just enough attention that you can't just leave the computer on autopilot.
For heaven's sake, Tobold!
How can it possibly matter to you that, for a couple of days a year, other people can, if it seems important enough to them, force-raise their cooking skill through a quest series?
If the act of raising your own cooking skill had value for you when you did it, then how is that value retroactively diminished by this change? Or, put more plainly, if you enjoyed doing it at the time, what's the problem?
If you didn't enjoy doing it, why did you bother? Why would you care if others doit fast when you didn't enjoy doing it slowly?
If you enjoyed doing it only because of the practical applications, don't you still have those? If you did it in order to make money withthe skill you've acquired, then isn't this just one of an endless series of market shifts that make "playing the market" an interesting activity in the first place?
I really struggle to understand why one can't find sufficient worth in one's own actions and achievements, but need to make some comparison with others to find value in them.
How can it possibly matter to you that, for a couple of days a year, other people can, if it seems important enough to them, force-raise their cooking skill through a quest series?
If the act of raising your own cooking skill had value for you when you did it, then how is that value retroactively diminished by this change? Or, put more plainly, if you enjoyed doing it at the time, what's the problem?
If you didn't enjoy doing it, why did you bother? Why would you care if others doit fast when you didn't enjoy doing it slowly?
If you enjoyed doing it only because of the practical applications, don't you still have those? If you did it in order to make money withthe skill you've acquired, then isn't this just one of an endless series of market shifts that make "playing the market" an interesting activity in the first place?
I really struggle to understand why one can't find sufficient worth in one's own actions and achievements, but need to make some comparison with others to find value in them.
# posted by : 23/11/09 11:52
: 23/11/09 11:52
The value of cooking has diminished. By allowing the entire server the level cooking with zero effort, there are now many more players who are able to cook their own raid food that they may have previously bought it off the auction house.
# posted by : 23/11/09 14:02
: 23/11/09 14:02
As someone who leveled this the hard way, I don't have a problem with it since it's just a limited time holiday. Not everyone participates in every holiday event, future characters won't benefit from it, and theirs plenty of welfare gear, buffs, etc associated with holidays. Wheres your spirit of celebration!?
I paid 600g for my level 60 epic ground mount, and 1000g for my basic flying mount at level 70. Now it's 50g at level 40 and 225g at level 60, respectively. And that's the permanent price, it's not going to revert to the old prices and levels in a week.
Better run, Tobold, I think those darn kids are on your lawn again.. /tease
Better run, Tobold, I think those darn kids are on your lawn again.. /tease
# posted by : 23/11/09 14:31
: 23/11/09 14:31
First thing I thought of was "YES! my alts can cook too now!" Having leveled cooking on 2 characters with only one of them being capable of making fish feasts, this change to me is amazing. its limited availability so if you miss it, you either level the regular way, or do without until next year.
it might seem a little unfair but at the same time.... my main, my former main, my one and only alliance alt, my pally and my warlock for their first mount at 40, all but pally and warlock had to make about 600 gold just to afford epic land mount and both warlock and pally had to do the epic mount quest in order to get their class only mounts. now you get them earlier they cost fraction of what they used to and leveling becasue a lot more pleasant and carefree.
is it unfair? maybe. but, its still beneficial whether you're new player tryng to catch up or old player rerolling/making an alt and once that "but I had to walk uphill both ways, barefoot in a snow" pang goes away? I think this is awesome
btw, that feast only lasts 7 days, so even if you make the engredients on the last day of the holiday? 7 days later, you're back to using fish feasts.
it might seem a little unfair but at the same time.... my main, my former main, my one and only alliance alt, my pally and my warlock for their first mount at 40, all but pally and warlock had to make about 600 gold just to afford epic land mount and both warlock and pally had to do the epic mount quest in order to get their class only mounts. now you get them earlier they cost fraction of what they used to and leveling becasue a lot more pleasant and carefree.
is it unfair? maybe. but, its still beneficial whether you're new player tryng to catch up or old player rerolling/making an alt and once that "but I had to walk uphill both ways, barefoot in a snow" pang goes away? I think this is awesome
btw, that feast only lasts 7 days, so even if you make the engredients on the last day of the holiday? 7 days later, you're back to using fish feasts.
Well SOME of us have real lives (tm) and jobs and families that take up most of our time. It's not fair that only the people with no real life (tm) who live in their mother's basements should get to experience high level cooking! You're just upset because you're an elitist and you want to feel better than everyone else because you have more time to play the game!
# posted by : 23/11/09 14:54
: 23/11/09 14:54
By allowing the entire server the level cooking with zero effort, there are now many more players who are able to cook their own raid food that they may have previously bought it off the auction house."
No, I don't think so, because they still have to level their skill from 300-ish to 425+ for raid food. If they didn't level cooking before, I don't think they'll do it now, even with a headstart. Next Wednesday, before raid time, they'll be standing in front of the AH, not a campfire. Betcha.
No, I don't think so, because they still have to level their skill from 300-ish to 425+ for raid food. If they didn't level cooking before, I don't think they'll do it now, even with a headstart. Next Wednesday, before raid time, they'll be standing in front of the AH, not a campfire. Betcha.
# posted by : 23/11/09 15:04
: 23/11/09 15:04
Wow I didn't know about this. I'm def going to take this up on my 4 level 80's thought. I have zero cooking skill on all of them. Please note I was highly considering taking up cooking on my main (prot paladin) to give me something extra when pugging raids.
# posted by : 23/11/09 15:14
: 23/11/09 15:14
Don't forget they nerfed the Cooking achievement of getting 160 recipes by adding 4 newbie ones.
They are encouraging people to use the skill, since many don't bother. Then once people level it, they chase achievements, etc. It's all a very clever part of time-sinking people who didn't bother before!
We must remember it is a business, not a game. Subscriber retention is everything now that the market has flattened.
They are encouraging people to use the skill, since many don't bother. Then once people level it, they chase achievements, etc. It's all a very clever part of time-sinking people who didn't bother before!
We must remember it is a business, not a game. Subscriber retention is everything now that the market has flattened.
I always felt the real pain of leveling cooking was acquiring the mats, especially if you are the same level as the mobs to kill (or had to fish in zones above your level). Especially there were certain dry spells where it was hard to acquire the materials you needed. Unlike tailoring, too few people put raw meat and fish on the AH for you to level while standing around in the city.
But if you took a lvl 80 and decided to level up fishing it would not be as hard, just some travelling. You'd be limited by the respawn on the mobs (stupid bear shank) or how fast you can catch certain fish, or the time of day they can be caught.
But yeah, if I was still playing then I would no longer be one of the few special ones who could make fish feast. few people bothered to get fishing and cooking that high. Actually now this worries me, will I have to log in this week and do this quest, will this feast become mandatory for raiding? I haven't logged in since may, but I might someday.
But if you took a lvl 80 and decided to level up fishing it would not be as hard, just some travelling. You'd be limited by the respawn on the mobs (stupid bear shank) or how fast you can catch certain fish, or the time of day they can be caught.
But yeah, if I was still playing then I would no longer be one of the few special ones who could make fish feast. few people bothered to get fishing and cooking that high. Actually now this worries me, will I have to log in this week and do this quest, will this feast become mandatory for raiding? I haven't logged in since may, but I might someday.
Am I the only reader who thought you were being funny and taking a poke at all the people who complain about things like this?
You weren't serious, were you Tobold?
You weren't serious, were you Tobold?
I was rather annoyed as well (I maxxed it out on all my 80's months ago), but as was pointed out it's only to 300 so it's almost a "skill reset" in prep for the next expansion.
That's a funny post title. However, it sort of seemed like you weren't joking about it as I read the post.
But anyway, I'm sure the reason for this implementation is quite simple...Blizz didn't want to lock out non-cooks from finishing the holiday achievement.
I've always had my secondary skills maxed out and I don't see why I should care about this change.
But anyway, I'm sure the reason for this implementation is quite simple...Blizz didn't want to lock out non-cooks from finishing the holiday achievement.
I've always had my secondary skills maxed out and I don't see why I should care about this change.
# posted by : 23/11/09 16:23
: 23/11/09 16:23
I leveled cooking to max on two characters in vanilla WoW.
I leveled cooking to max on three characters in TBC.
I've already leveled cooking to max on four characters in WotLK.
I have two characters with the Chef title, and I'm working on two others.
And in the end this change is a non-issue. People who haven't already leveled Cooking aren't likely to make any use of their newfound skill. My personal belief is that Blizzard added these items to help people get the Holiday Achievements (Winter's Veil specifically).
I leveled cooking to max on three characters in TBC.
I've already leveled cooking to max on four characters in WotLK.
I have two characters with the Chef title, and I'm working on two others.
And in the end this change is a non-issue. People who haven't already leveled Cooking aren't likely to make any use of their newfound skill. My personal belief is that Blizzard added these items to help people get the Holiday Achievements (Winter's Veil specifically).
You weren't serious, were you Tobold?
I wasn't serious about "welfare" cooking skill diminishing other people's "achievement" of having skilled up cooking the hard way. Nevertheless I do think that this change has more impact than some people believe, and I'm not sure it is a good idea to pack this change into a one-week holiday event. I'm sure some people will miss it and complain afterwards.
What I would have done instead of a limited time offer for super easy cooking skill leveling would have been a permanent change which would make acquiring cooking skill easier, if that was what the devs wanted, but without making it trivial.
I wasn't serious about "welfare" cooking skill diminishing other people's "achievement" of having skilled up cooking the hard way. Nevertheless I do think that this change has more impact than some people believe, and I'm not sure it is a good idea to pack this change into a one-week holiday event. I'm sure some people will miss it and complain afterwards.
What I would have done instead of a limited time offer for super easy cooking skill leveling would have been a permanent change which would make acquiring cooking skill easier, if that was what the devs wanted, but without making it trivial.
I don't see a problem. I alsways had cooking maxed out with my raiding character, also leveled ist on my fishing gimp. You really only need one character with cooking, since fishfeasts preferably your main, all other chars can eat what one cooked for all.
So what if everyone can skill all their alts to 350 in half an hour?
So what if everyone can skill all their alts to 350 in half an hour?
# posted by : 23/11/09 16:44
: 23/11/09 16:44
"Nevertheless I do think that this change has more impact than some people believe, and I'm not sure it is a good idea to pack this change into a one-week holiday event."
I don't see the difference between the non-max tradeskill gain from this holiday event and the non-best in slot items gained from other holiday events.
If you take advantage of this holiday event, you can catch up on a neglected tradeskill. If you took advantage of the Brewfest or Hallow's End holiday events, you can catch up on gear.
As far as I know, the event doesn't take you to the max cooking skill. Just like the previous events don't net you a best in slot item. It helps you catch up, but it doesn't get you to the top.
I don't see the difference between the non-max tradeskill gain from this holiday event and the non-best in slot items gained from other holiday events.
If you take advantage of this holiday event, you can catch up on a neglected tradeskill. If you took advantage of the Brewfest or Hallow's End holiday events, you can catch up on gear.
As far as I know, the event doesn't take you to the max cooking skill. Just like the previous events don't net you a best in slot item. It helps you catch up, but it doesn't get you to the top.
Too funny! Actually I didn't even notice the "welfare" skill-ups (they were all 'gray' recipes). Cooking is ridiculously easy if you fish and do it as you level, so all my toons are skilled cooks. Cooking costs a fortune to skill up? PT Barnum told us about those people...
# posted by : 23/11/09 17:02
: 23/11/09 17:02
I make all of my guild's stat foods on my hunter who's had high level cooking since vanilla and up. I currently am playing my shaman who has zero cooking and zero fishing. The Pilgrim's Bounty will provide my shaman an easy way to catch up to the hunter and be able to continue to provide my guild with food without having to log on an alt I no longer care for.
My mains cooking is maxed and I have no problem with this. Because as it stood I would never ever level cooking on another toon the normal way. This lets me level my alts cooking, which is fine by me.
If they wanted to 'fix' cooking give it a point. Don't dumb it down and make it more pointless. Why even have it as part of the game if it doesn't take some actual playing to do it and then have it actually affect game play? Is WTF out of line here?
At what point is it too easy? How about just make it an option that I can buy PLZ. $10 for current max cooking and $1 to learn Jalapeno Pizza w/ Use: Eat for 5 seconds and your character will walk around with smoke coming out his/her ears. Effect lasts 30 seconds. Materials for the pizza will be mailed to you and will not be consumed on use but will have a 30 second cooldown. If at anytime your sub gets canceled you will have to repurchase the recipe.
YIPPIE! My Lil' KT laughs at you when smoke comes out your ears ROFLMAO!
Damn. My enjoyably somewhat difficult game has been turned into Sims: In Azeroth. Puke!
At what point is it too easy? How about just make it an option that I can buy PLZ. $10 for current max cooking and $1 to learn Jalapeno Pizza w/ Use: Eat for 5 seconds and your character will walk around with smoke coming out his/her ears. Effect lasts 30 seconds. Materials for the pizza will be mailed to you and will not be consumed on use but will have a 30 second cooldown. If at anytime your sub gets canceled you will have to repurchase the recipe.
YIPPIE! My Lil' KT laughs at you when smoke comes out your ears ROFLMAO!
Damn. My enjoyably somewhat difficult game has been turned into Sims: In Azeroth. Puke!
World of Warcraft is the worlds biggest kazoo. You could be the Jimmy Page of the kazoo, and no one would give a damn. Cause its a kazoo.
When I played WoW, my attitude was like this: Even though it is a kazoo, as long as your going to play it, you should try to play it as well as you can. Your achievement will only be appreciated by yourself, but it's still an achievement of a kind, so you hone your kazoo skills until your the best goddamn kazoo player you can be.
Then someone releases the EZ mode kazoo--- and everyone can just pick it up and play as well as you. They could have released the EZ kazoo from the beginning, but they didn't. They want to make you buy expansion kazoos. So you get the EZ mode kazoo and learn to play that real well. Then they release the Super E-Z Kazoo, and suddenly everyone catches up again.
At some point you realize that with the amount of time you are wasting on this bullshit, with all the time you are wasting you could be playing a instrument that doesn't sound like a duck orgy, and ragequit, and troll Tobolds comment section for eternity.
And that has been the life of anyone who foolishly and pathetically invested any sense of accomplishment in doing all the inane tasks and chores Blizzard has been demolishing to help their customers feel like they've accomplished something. I can see why I used to get mad when this happens, but I can also see how it's kind of funny that I did. F'ing Kazoos!
When I played WoW, my attitude was like this: Even though it is a kazoo, as long as your going to play it, you should try to play it as well as you can. Your achievement will only be appreciated by yourself, but it's still an achievement of a kind, so you hone your kazoo skills until your the best goddamn kazoo player you can be.
Then someone releases the EZ mode kazoo--- and everyone can just pick it up and play as well as you. They could have released the EZ kazoo from the beginning, but they didn't. They want to make you buy expansion kazoos. So you get the EZ mode kazoo and learn to play that real well. Then they release the Super E-Z Kazoo, and suddenly everyone catches up again.
At some point you realize that with the amount of time you are wasting on this bullshit, with all the time you are wasting you could be playing a instrument that doesn't sound like a duck orgy, and ragequit, and troll Tobolds comment section for eternity.
And that has been the life of anyone who foolishly and pathetically invested any sense of accomplishment in doing all the inane tasks and chores Blizzard has been demolishing to help their customers feel like they've accomplished something. I can see why I used to get mad when this happens, but I can also see how it's kind of funny that I did. F'ing Kazoos!
I'm pretty sure that Blizz has realized that cooking is one of the least leveled skills, also with fishing. There also a nerf to fishing incoming where level 1 folks can participate in the upcoming new fishing tournement, hence boosting fishing leveling as well.
I have two characters at max level fishing and cooking, yet I cannot say I'm sad that they speed those up. With accelerated leveling, it has become much less viable leveling secondary professions on the side without some serious slowdown. Also sending death knights into level 10 zones just to have a chance to pick up fishing was a tad on the extreme side.
Yes this is a cheap method to have people catch up and I don't think it's the best solution (characters who miss this week will be hosed basically), but alas.
Having people catch up fast is a necessary mechanism in MMOs, so generically this kind of thing just needs to happen. One can quabble over details, but I don't want to bother really.
I have two characters at max level fishing and cooking, yet I cannot say I'm sad that they speed those up. With accelerated leveling, it has become much less viable leveling secondary professions on the side without some serious slowdown. Also sending death knights into level 10 zones just to have a chance to pick up fishing was a tad on the extreme side.
Yes this is a cheap method to have people catch up and I don't think it's the best solution (characters who miss this week will be hosed basically), but alas.
Having people catch up fast is a necessary mechanism in MMOs, so generically this kind of thing just needs to happen. One can quabble over details, but I don't want to bother really.
# posted by : 23/11/09 23:34
: 23/11/09 23:34
Funny story... about doing the dishes:
My grandmother boiled water on the stove, put it in a big bowl without drainpipe.
My mother took hot tap water and did the dishes in the sink.
My wife has a nice dishwasher.
I expect my daughter to use a magic wand ;-)
My grandmother boiled water on the stove, put it in a big bowl without drainpipe.
My mother took hot tap water and did the dishes in the sink.
My wife has a nice dishwasher.
I expect my daughter to use a magic wand ;-)
# posted by : 24/11/09 00:12
: 24/11/09 00:12
On the flip side the question is, why is it fun for cooking to take along time to go up?
Toxic: Good kazoo line...I'll remember that one :)
Toxic: Good kazoo line...I'll remember that one :)
As far as i see it. With all the 7 day item durations on feasts, foods and everything for this event you should loose what you didn't earn on your own time.
Bam! Cooking skill reduced to previous skill when event is over. That's how it should be with all these people that want to participate in the event but don't want to invest quality time to make the event earned rightly.
Bam! Cooking skill reduced to previous skill when event is over. That's how it should be with all these people that want to participate in the event but don't want to invest quality time to make the event earned rightly.
The only thing that frustrates me about it is that I literally spent last week grinding sandworms in Silithus, trying to get the last few points of cooking so I could train Outland recipes.
Dammit, why didn't I read up on the Pilgrim's Bounty event ahead of time and spare myself the pain! xD
Dammit, why didn't I read up on the Pilgrim's Bounty event ahead of time and spare myself the pain! xD
Cooking was never a problem unless someone was totally clueless and lazy.
Actually fishing was the most tedious to level skill. It took hours after hours to level it to max.
And if you weren't (again) clueless you'd spend some of these hours on fishing something useful instead of tattered cloth. One hour fishing in Moonglade, one hour fishing in Azshara and I had more fish than I needed for skill ups in the appropriate level range.
Actually, my char was level ~48 and wanted the Winter Veil cooking achievement last year. Hmm, stuck just under 300. Hmm, too low level to take smoked desert dumpling quest in Silithus. Hmm, fish from Azshara? Some mobs might be a bit high level (over 50) but it's easy to avoid and swim around. Seriously...
Actually fishing was the most tedious to level skill. It took hours after hours to level it to max.
And if you weren't (again) clueless you'd spend some of these hours on fishing something useful instead of tattered cloth. One hour fishing in Moonglade, one hour fishing in Azshara and I had more fish than I needed for skill ups in the appropriate level range.
Actually, my char was level ~48 and wanted the Winter Veil cooking achievement last year. Hmm, stuck just under 300. Hmm, too low level to take smoked desert dumpling quest in Silithus. Hmm, fish from Azshara? Some mobs might be a bit high level (over 50) but it's easy to avoid and swim around. Seriously...
# posted by : 24/11/09 07:28
: 24/11/09 07:28
As long as the trade skills are so unmeaningfull in general, there is no reason to be upset about this kind of nerfing. The trade skills in WoW are a joke anyway, because they offer no real upgrades to the drops you are going to get from the game itself and the benefits from them are negligible.
If, on the other hand, the tradeskills like cooking would offer meaningful bonuses or benefits, then this kind of artificial boost wouldn't be necessary: people would level the skill while levelling their toon just to have that extra benefit.
Sure there are some crafted gear which defend their position in the end game, but that's very little benefit from levelling a tradeskill.
And what comes to Hirvox's iteration over the raiding, isn't ToC exactly that, replacing Naxx(totally)/Uld(partly) with 'welfare epics' and making the raids themself pretty unnecessary? Sure the hardmodes have better loot, but as ToC gives good enough gear to overcome the normal raids, why bother with the hardmodes unless you are in an achievement driven hc guild?
The speedway to Icecrown is already there, bypassing Naxx and Uld...
C out
If, on the other hand, the tradeskills like cooking would offer meaningful bonuses or benefits, then this kind of artificial boost wouldn't be necessary: people would level the skill while levelling their toon just to have that extra benefit.
Sure there are some crafted gear which defend their position in the end game, but that's very little benefit from levelling a tradeskill.
And what comes to Hirvox's iteration over the raiding, isn't ToC exactly that, replacing Naxx(totally)/Uld(partly) with 'welfare epics' and making the raids themself pretty unnecessary? Sure the hardmodes have better loot, but as ToC gives good enough gear to overcome the normal raids, why bother with the hardmodes unless you are in an achievement driven hc guild?
The speedway to Icecrown is already there, bypassing Naxx and Uld...
C out
It is hard to predict whether it is the veterans or the new players whom will benefit the most from this holiday.
I have a toon in a leveling guild and I always recommend to new players they pick up skinning when they start their first character. Not only does leather sell well, the meat they get by killing certain mobs can make them relatively wealthy while leveling.
It remains to be seen if the price of meat will drop after the holiday. I hope so for the new players in my guild.
I have a toon in a leveling guild and I always recommend to new players they pick up skinning when they start their first character. Not only does leather sell well, the meat they get by killing certain mobs can make them relatively wealthy while leveling.
It remains to be seen if the price of meat will drop after the holiday. I hope so for the new players in my guild.
# posted by : 24/11/09 16:03
: 24/11/09 16:03
Give me ezmode Fishing! :)
I read somewhere that "Pilgrim's gonna make levelling cooking easy", but as I don't have any char below 370 cooking on my main server (and didn't bother to look anywhere else) I wouldn't even have noticed if it's true.
If it was really such a pain to level, I wouldn't have done it on every class. Like I only have 1 high-level Fisherman, because that IS a pain to level.
I read somewhere that "Pilgrim's gonna make levelling cooking easy", but as I don't have any char below 370 cooking on my main server (and didn't bother to look anywhere else) I wouldn't even have noticed if it's true.
If it was really such a pain to level, I wouldn't have done it on every class. Like I only have 1 high-level Fisherman, because that IS a pain to level.
"Funny story... about doing the dishes"
If you consider playing a particular video game analogous to washing the dishes, I'd say you need to find a different genre of video game to play.
If you consider playing a particular video game analogous to washing the dishes, I'd say you need to find a different genre of video game to play.
# posted by : 24/11/09 23:48
: 24/11/09 23:48
Obviously the great equalizing reset button comes in every once in awhile to help new players catch up. This is great for things like getting raid-geared or pvp-geared, as these activities offten require the cooperation of countless other players, and when the necessary dungeons are outdated, or the rest of the population is already in high PvP style, the task can be too daunting.
With cooking however, this is not the case. Cooking is something a player can do alone and on his own schedule. While I won't argue that there should not have been SOME implementation to make the cooking leveling system more accessible, this is just ridiculously easy and incredibly trivializing of the entire profession, not to mention a huge spit in the face of all players who dumped in tens of hours and hundreds of gold to level their cooking.
With cooking however, this is not the case. Cooking is something a player can do alone and on his own schedule. While I won't argue that there should not have been SOME implementation to make the cooking leveling system more accessible, this is just ridiculously easy and incredibly trivializing of the entire profession, not to mention a huge spit in the face of all players who dumped in tens of hours and hundreds of gold to level their cooking.
@Anonymous:
"Funny story... about doing the dishes:
My grandmother boiled water on the stove, put it in a big bowl without drainpipe.
My mother took hot tap water and did the dishes in the sink.
My wife has a nice dishwasher.
I expect my daughter to use a magic wand ;-)"
Different things entirely.
One is a chore that nobody wants to do, but needs to be done.
The other is a game we pay to do things in because we enjoy it.
If your game is a 'chore' you shouldn't be playing it.
And for me, Toxic hit the nail on the head with the Kazoo comment. Perfect.
"Funny story... about doing the dishes:
My grandmother boiled water on the stove, put it in a big bowl without drainpipe.
My mother took hot tap water and did the dishes in the sink.
My wife has a nice dishwasher.
I expect my daughter to use a magic wand ;-)"
Different things entirely.
One is a chore that nobody wants to do, but needs to be done.
The other is a game we pay to do things in because we enjoy it.
If your game is a 'chore' you shouldn't be playing it.
And for me, Toxic hit the nail on the head with the Kazoo comment. Perfect.
What's the news? It's powerlevelling a tradeskill - something that has been around for some time now, and endorsed by Blizzard (check the powerlevelling guide in the official professions, praised and promptly made a sticky by a blue). You didnt' complain when you went from 1-450 in Blacks mithing within 30 minutes did you? It's the same thing. Don't mention the cost, it's just 2-3 BoE epics from your average boss and some AH shopping.
# posted by : 25/11/09 15:57
: 25/11/09 15:57
Hey Tobold love the blog but how many people playing WOW are new to the game. I think making things easier to level for alts is another way of Blizzard keeping the existing player population happy because in reality that is the true player base.
# posted by : 25/11/09 18:35
: 25/11/09 18:35
Wow! I didn't even know we could do this! I have been playing for 5 years and still do not have max cooking or fishing for any of my 6 80's lol. Its just not that big of a deal to me I can always get what I need off the AH for trivial gold. However having said that I may check into this and level up one of my toons with cooking.
# posted by : 28/11/09 16:45
: 28/11/09 16:45
I loved this. I have two toons that have cooking over 300 (over 400 really) out of 8 regularly played toons. This allows me to have every toon get within pretty easy shot of being able to provide feasts for raids which I have never done. Tired of sponging off guildies (they refuse compensation), but having to level cooking by hand is hard and boring. Been there done that. Now if they can nerf fishing.
Blizzard continues its tradition of pratically giving away for nothing what other people have worked hard for. There is basically no reason to play this game any longer, since nothing achieved has any lasting value.
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