Tobold's Blog
Saturday, June 05, 2010
I can be a mean bastard when provoked

I just had one of those really annoying players in a pickup group. He was tank, I was healer, and he was complaining about me all the time, in spite of me doing perfectly fine in keeping everybody alive. Second boss dropped a dps item, on which I rolled need for offspec, and he called me a ninja while pulling the third boss. So I left the group and let him die. :)

Moral: Before you complain too much about somebody else, make sure you don't actually need him.
Probably the first time that happend to him. :)
You are not only mean when provoked, Tobold, you are easily provoked.

Then again, I'd probably did the same, but I wouldn't spend much thoughts afterwards on it, like obviously do. :)
People will say it's not worth the debuff. I say it's time well-spent getting the ingredients together for Fish Feasts.

Well worth the trade-off.
When healing I have a series of mouseover macros.

One says "Please stop pulling before the tank".

One says "Please stop overaggroing."

One says "I'm sorry, %person won't be getting any healing until he Stops That Shit." or words to that effect.
but I wouldn't spend much thoughts afterwards on it, like obviously do.

Huh? Just because I post a story like that doesn't mean I spent much thought on it. Just one of thousands of "what happened to me in the game today" blog posts that are all over the MMO blogosphere. I found it kind of funny. :)
I can be pretty spiteful too. I've been healing through old-world dungeons with my fiance tanking again, and my rule is "you don't get healed if you annoy me".

Sometimes they get the hint, but there was one guy who just stood there saying "heals" when he got low on health, rather than trying to avoid pulling aggro on every single pull.
I don't know, that is a pretty low bar for the "mean bastard" title. That is more in the league of "Screw you, I don't put up with crap I don't have to."

Now, if you'd have pulled a fake disconnect during that third boss, let the group wipe, came back with the "sorry, got dropped" excuse, wasted a bunch of their time getting everything set, and then did left the group to die on that boss... then you might be getting into the bastard territory.

And if you could get them to fall for the disconnect cycle a few times, the mean bastard achievement might be yours.

But if they're not voting to kick you from the group, you're not really there yet in my opinion.

But being a mean bastard takes work, more than I (and probably you) care to invest.
Been there done that as a healer.

My favorite, though, is as a paladin tank. Idiots pull mobs and then yell at you to tank them. Just stand there and tell them you only tank what you pull, and watch them die.

Throw in an obligatory "lol" as idiots die, and if they start crying, tell them to enjoy a 15 minute wait, leave group, and insta-queue into another group.

Probably the only thing that made me smile while playing WoW the last few months before I quit.
You also screwed the 3 dps players in your group who had just probably waited 20 minutes in a que. Why not do a vote to kick next time? If the deeps dont' back you up, then you can let them die.
"You also screwed the 3 dps players in your group who had just probably waited 20 minutes in a queue."

What I was going to post. You are part of the problem here. Put him on ignore and kick him when you can.

I'm leveling a tank alt now, and let me tell you, I'm looking forward to removal of the vote kick cooldown for patient players in the next patch. Best would be if commonly kicked players got grouped with each other and cost you nothing to kick.
I agree that not letting people take OS gear in LFD is ridiculous.

However, I don't believe he "needed" you. LFD finds replacements quickly and even cheap shots like you leaving during boss pull shouldn't cause wipes since any non-retarded hybrid dps will step in and easily outheal the boss' damage on the overgeared tank.
Taking Tomasz's point about hybrid dps switching to heals even farther--there are a fair number of heroics where a geared tank could kill the boss even if all 3 dps and the healer all left at the start of the pull. The same is true for some of the leveling instances.

There seems to be a correlation between the growing trend of no role being really needed or valued, and the increasing rudeness in the LFD groups. Some other see this as bad money driving out good, or some other social explanation, but to me it's a simple combination of certain player groups no longer needing to run heroics even for the frosts, and other player groups feeling like the content is too easy to need to pretend to be nice to make clearing it more smooth.
Well played sir, I probably would have done the same. I have no time for players who don't appreciate the value of other members of the group.

(and its moral, not morale :D)
Somewhere in the webz someone is writing a post on how healers are spoiled, self-centered prima donnas who not only ninja-loot but also leave mid-pull.

See, he provoked you and you had your payback. You don't really need free for all PVP in order for players to be bastards to each other. :D
I was dual boxing 2 caster dps toons in a AN LFD.

Tank says "lets go for the Watch Him Die achievement".
I said "no thanks" on both my toons.
"Do achievements on your own time please, I just need the badges."

Next thing I know, the tank is running in and pulling the whole room, going for the achievement.

I promptly leave group on both my toons and doom the remaining group members for a certain wipe.

While I understand how much of a dog act this was, the fact that the tank took any form of choice out of my hands really pissed me off.
This isn't an uncommon scenario for sure in MMORPG. However, I wonder if there is a good solution other than kicking out the tank. While what you did was understandable (I've done the same thing myself), I felt bad because it didn't only affect the jerk tank, but also the other party members.
Not a comment to Tobold, but a comment about healers in general.

As a tank, I have been grouped with a remarkable number of healers who do not know the fights and therefore do not seem to know that there are encounters in which the DPS faultlessly takes damage. As a DPS, I've had one such healer refuse to top me off after such a fight, insisting I must have pulled from the tank to have sustained any damage at all. I sat and ate while they moved on to the next pull.

Yes, sometimes melee stands in the whirlwind. Sometimes melee stands in a cleave or a suspicious circle on the floor. Sometimes there's just random damage that is hard, if not impossible, to avoid.

Don't be one of those healers who assumes that if a DPS is taking some damage, they have pulled threat. I've seen trash mobs target a random player and nuke them, and it looks for all the world in my raid frames as if that player has stolen threat from me for a few seconds. It's just a scripted event. Tanks have to learn when "bar just turned red" means "player has aggro" or "mob is doing collateral damage".

Healers need to learn that, too.

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest, Tobold!
Carebears are usually the worst assholes. You have no loyalty to anyone but your own and consider .

Not saying that tank behaved like gentleman (wasnt there), but you behaved like a typical douchbag for sure.
I have done something similar, I joined an instance once to find the group tell me that if I sucked they would kick me so I left as they pulled. Debuff is definitely worth no having to deal with people like that. But that stuff doesn't happen often.
Putting up with undeserved attitude is one thing, which I don't expect anyone to have to put up with.

However, for a healer in a heroic to consider a DPS taking damage in any way a bad thing is stupid. In heroics nowadays the job is a joke for healers and there is a limit to how much you can contribute by healing: how much incoming damage there is occurring.

However, in the event where a DPS has the capability to do so much damage that he is pulling agro consistently, that pretty well squarely puts the opportunity in the lap of the healer to contribute more to their group than they otherwise could.

If you as a healer are willing to heal that DPS through the damage they are taking by pulling agro they can continue to go full out on damage without concern. If you however do NOT heal them through the damage then one of two scenarios will occur:

1) The DPS is smart, realizes you wont heal them, and just holds back on damage so they don't pull agro.

2) The DPS is NOT smart, and just keeps pulling agro and dying.

In both cases, regardless of whether the DPS is an idiot or not, the damage of the group goes down. Therefore, no matter the circumstances, choosing the route of not healing DPS members who are taking damage when you can, is choosing to be lazy and contribute as little as possible to the group. They are just as bad as the typical 800 DPS damage dealer.

This is of course assuming you are not struggling to keep up with healing the tank or yourself already - a circumstance which in the current incarnation of the game is prohibitively rare.
"Do achievements on your own time please, I just need the badges."

When he's in a dungeon with a party?

And PvP attracts the worst kind of players, right Tobold? :D

'"Do achievements on your own time please, I just need the badges."

When he's in a dungeon with a party?'

When I want to do achievements, I recruit a group of like minded people from trade chat or my guild. Since most people have already done most dungeon achievements, they probably don't feel like wiping and incuring a high repair bill to carry someone else through them.

Sure, maybe they're saints and will agree to help some randome person with the achievement. That's fine then, but it has be voluntary.
Ah yes. Last time our healer called me a "bloody noob tank" after two minutes I just left the instance.

Felt good.
So you griefed the whole group for one player? Seriously? A more adult move would have been to vote kick the tank, especially since it seemed the rest of the group wasn't a pain.

As much of a pain the tank may have been, this really reflects much worse on you, only thinking of yourself and ditching. I probably would have put both of you on ignore for that behavior, just so i would never group with someone that did that again.
I'm not a fan of need for offspec. You screwed the whole group over not just the tank.
I have to agree, if you have problems with the tank, don't disband midfight and screw over the rest of the party members. If the tank goes chances are it will hit the DPS next, and if they die because you got angry at one member they would be rightly pissed.

You don't like the tank, tell him straight out in party to hold on the next pull, and get it sorted out. Worse comes to worse, then leave before any mob is pulled, so at least they can find a rep if possible.

Also, it shows you are the better man, and your team probably will kick the tank over you if its apparent he is being a jerk.

If you pulled that in FFXI, you'd get a rep.
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