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Sunday, April 10, 2011
Priests are the best dps, mages the worst
A reader sent me a link to his site Raidbots.com which data mines information from World of Logs to see what classes and specs are on top of the dps meters. The winner over the last 60 days is the shadow priest, with the bottom place being taken by frost mages. Somehow I didn't count on making the best damage dealer when I rolled a priest 6 years ago. And I guess I'll have to respec my mage to fire.
- posted by Tobold @ 10:03 PM Permanent Link
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Note that on these sorts of sites any spec that is notably weak will show up as absolutely hopeless. If Frost mages are 10% behind other mages then they will show up as 40% behind because the only people running Frost in raids are those who are uninformed, not interested in pve or not interested in performing well. Any or all of those things lead any Frost mage on the chart to massively underperform compared to their spec's capacity. The same effect tends to mean that any spec noted for being overpowered show up as even more overpowered than optimal performance would suggest.
Well I'm sure the answer is that mages are viable but not that particular non-cookie cutter sub-spec.
I think there's an interesting question here (again relating to hybrids v pures).
If it's important that, as well as having a viable healing or tanking spec hybrids should have viable dps specs too, then hybrids are more or less assured of two raid viable specs.
As for tribrids (Druids and Paladins) they are more or less assured of three raid viable specs.
Why then is it seemingly ok to give pures only one viable spec at a time (and that keeps jumping from one tree to the next).
Is Frost Mage not a valid longterm playstyle in the way Ret Pally is supposed to be? You can be a Ret Pally for the next 3 years and be pretty safe that they won't become unplayable, not so for a Frost Mage.
I think there's an interesting question here (again relating to hybrids v pures).
If it's important that, as well as having a viable healing or tanking spec hybrids should have viable dps specs too, then hybrids are more or less assured of two raid viable specs.
As for tribrids (Druids and Paladins) they are more or less assured of three raid viable specs.
Why then is it seemingly ok to give pures only one viable spec at a time (and that keeps jumping from one tree to the next).
Is Frost Mage not a valid longterm playstyle in the way Ret Pally is supposed to be? You can be a Ret Pally for the next 3 years and be pretty safe that they won't become unplayable, not so for a Frost Mage.
To be fair, the two outliers--Sub Rogue and Frost Mage--are very powerful PvP specs. There is a genuine concern that improving them for PvE will make them even more insane in PvP.
Fire is HIGHLY gear dependent, it burns a lot of mana and is extremely reliant on crits. As a fresh 85, I did more damage as Frost than I did as Fire.
This data is based on raids, where the players are all raid buffed and highly geared, so it is no surprise that Fire does so much more. With lesser gear, it will not serve you as well.
This data is based on raids, where the players are all raid buffed and highly geared, so it is no surprise that Fire does so much more. With lesser gear, it will not serve you as well.
To be fair, the two outliers--Sub Rogue and Frost Mage--are very powerful PvP specs. There is a genuine concern that improving them for PvE will make them even more insane in PvP.
Fair point, Rohan.
Fair point, Rohan.
hrmmmpppphhhh.... And its WoL...
IMO... still a frost mage that can hear the words "GET OUT OF THE FIRE" once and "get out of the fire" without hearing those words again... far mor valuable than the fire mage that still must think it is a buff to their fire sped...
There is the point that the extremee dps levels only matter to those who are going for heroic modes... those are what? guessing here, less than 5% of the player base... DPS DOES NOT MATTER.. the coordination, multi tasking and execution is what does mater while maintaining "RESPECTABLE" dps... practice and proficiency... not the ability to be a sheep and follow the crowd who is fire "cuz itz dah radin specz mohn...." those numbers do not represent the majority of players, its gear dependant, proficiency, and practice... A raiding shadow priest rotation... not like its easy for 70% of the WoW population to understand and maintain to get to those numbers... Players > class and spec once you have the tank healer roles filled to maek the encounter possible.
IMO... still a frost mage that can hear the words "GET OUT OF THE FIRE" once and "get out of the fire" without hearing those words again... far mor valuable than the fire mage that still must think it is a buff to their fire sped...
There is the point that the extremee dps levels only matter to those who are going for heroic modes... those are what? guessing here, less than 5% of the player base... DPS DOES NOT MATTER.. the coordination, multi tasking and execution is what does mater while maintaining "RESPECTABLE" dps... practice and proficiency... not the ability to be a sheep and follow the crowd who is fire "cuz itz dah radin specz mohn...." those numbers do not represent the majority of players, its gear dependant, proficiency, and practice... A raiding shadow priest rotation... not like its easy for 70% of the WoW population to understand and maintain to get to those numbers... Players > class and spec once you have the tank healer roles filled to maek the encounter possible.
Just to point out if you didn't notice, you can toggle looking at the Top 100 parses and All Parses across all kills. Looking at the medians for All Parses gives insight into what the "average" WoW player can actually do.
The Top 100 stuff will always be the craziest, best players who can both survive and push their spec to the limits. That data is definitely interesting if your on the bleeding edge of the game (like I've been for a while).
Also, if anyone has any suggestions for what I can do with the data, let me know! I'm always open to crunching numbers in new ways to highlight something interesting.
The Top 100 stuff will always be the craziest, best players who can both survive and push their spec to the limits. That data is definitely interesting if your on the bleeding edge of the game (like I've been for a while).
Also, if anyone has any suggestions for what I can do with the data, let me know! I'm always open to crunching numbers in new ways to highlight something interesting.
To be fair, the two outliers--Sub Rogue and Frost Mage--are very powerful PvP specs. There is a genuine concern that improving them for PvE will make them even more insane in PvP.
And the reverse is true for Tribrids; ferals and boomkins aren't nearly as strong in PVP, so although druids are assured three good PVE specs, they aren't necessarily even assured a PVP spec in the playstyle of their choice.
And the reverse is true for Tribrids; ferals and boomkins aren't nearly as strong in PVP, so although druids are assured three good PVE specs, they aren't necessarily even assured a PVP spec in the playstyle of their choice.
So do you really think that PVP spec's (like frost mages) also MUST be just as good as other spec's in PVE?
What's wrong with having frost be a spec that's better for pvp than pve? Mages still have two great pve spec's: arcane and fire. Isn't that enough given dual spec?
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What's wrong with having frost be a spec that's better for pvp than pve? Mages still have two great pve spec's: arcane and fire. Isn't that enough given dual spec?
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