Tobold's Blog
Friday, April 15, 2011
 
Tanking gear

Quick auction house check with my level 84 tanking paladin:
Cheapest piece of iLevel 359 epic tanking gear on the AH: 30K gold.
Cheapest piece of iLevel 359 epic cloth caster gear: 3k gold.

Number of blue level 85 tanking gear items on the AH: 0
Number of blue level 85 dps items on the AH: 213

Number of tank items I can craft with my maxed out blacksmithing skill before running heroics: 0

I think I'll cancel my plan to gear up that paladin for tanking heroics. My other characters were so much easier to gear up.
Comments:
You could easily buy the crafted epics for less than 3k.

Pointing at epics on the AH is a dumb idea anyways. It's a completely random crapshoot not subject to competition, so at any given moment in time you could be looking at overpriced crap and underpriced goldmines (I just bought 2 Tsunami decks for 5k each when they go for 13k+).

No one has any crafted blues that go on their main armor slots. You can get a crafted cloak from Leatherworking. You can get neck and rings from jewelcrafting.

And please for the love of god tell me you didn't compare the number of plate tank items to the number of dps items for all classes.

Statistics: twisted to suit the whims of the user.
 
>> Number of tank items I can craft with my maxed out blacksmithing skill before running heroics: 0

Is there something wrong with the "Hardened Obsidium" set?
 
Is there something wrong with the "Hardened Obsidium" set?

iLevel 308, hardly what you'd be wearing at level 85.
 
You could easily buy the crafted epics for less than 3k.

I'd be interested to hear how I'd do that, buying the crafted tanking epics for less than 3k.
 
Hardened Elementium Girdle: 3 truegold (1500G) 4 hardened elementium (500G) 2 orbs (1000G to the crafter)

Hardened Elementium Hauberk 6 truegold (3000G) 5 hardened elementium (650G) 3 obs (1500G to the crafter)

Spam trade chat.

About the 346 blues you are right. There isn't any craftables or BoE.
 
I'd be interested to hear how I'd do that, buying the crafted tanking epics for less than 3k.
Of course, I don't know how much mats cost on your server, but on mine:

For belt and chest:
9x Hardened Elementium Bar (100g each)
9x Truegold (500g each, or 400g if you grab a friend to help you out with transmutes)
5x Chaos Orb (200g each)

Total comes to 5500-6400g total for two pieces.

Aside from buying the crafted epics, there's really not much to buy anyways. You certainly don't need to buy anything to start tanking, and if you're not confident enough to be tanking in greens and blues (and two crafted epics), you probably should be doing normals anyways for your blues.

There's also plenty of gear from reputation and JP.
 
Tanks can actually get a LOT of gear from reputation. Epics alone, Hyjal gives you two, Ramkahen gives you two and Wildhammer/Dragonmaw give you one. They might not all be tanking itemized, but that matters less than you'd think.

And as others have suggested, find a crafter who will make them for a reasonable price.
 
About the 346 blues you are right. There isn't any craftables or BoE. You can get cloaks and jewelry from crafting.

The only 346 BoE world drops come from World bosses anyways, so I wouldn't put too much emphasis on it anyways.

For a real list of BoE world drops for plate wearers: http://www.wowhead.com/items=4.4?filter=qu=3;minle=300;maxle=346;ub=1;cr=146:3:128;crs=2:1:4;crv=0:0:0#0-2+8+1

There's an equal number of world drops for plate tanks, dps, and healers.
 
Btw, the crafted blue necklace, crafted blue ring, and crafted epic shield are all pre-raid best-in-slot.

Now that I look at it, it seems you can have a tank more decked out before stepping into your first heroic than any other role.
 
As people have said, craft two epics, get two epics from reputation. The rest should be either rep gear or normal dungeon gear.

Keep in mind you dont NEED epics to tank anything. Now you only need to take the crit suppression skills in your tree (no more defense).

If you have a adequate healer and you understand the pulls, wearing blues will be enough.

I think i only bought ONE epic from the AH in cata (for my offspec). Only do it if you have money to burn, the difference between 346 and 359 gear is totally NOT worth it.
 
I too was disappointed that blacksmithing did not offer a crafted entry level blue tanking set (i.e. Ilvl 333). I was expecting there to be something equivalent to the wrath era.blue tank set. Ok so there are some tank items from quests and reforging can help convert dps or pvp items sufficient to start running normal mode instances. But I just felt levelling blacksmithing was a huge waste of time- why have a ilvl 308 tank set at all? A nd the grind to get 333 tank blues from normals is suprr tedious.as there are only 3 instances to run at 85...
 
As I understand it, 'tanking gear' means mastery, not dodge or parry. Have another look at the DPS gear.
 
good remark, high stamina gear with mastery will give block. Reforge haste or crit into avoidance (usually dodge, you get parry from STR anyway)

You can avoid hitting the hit cap, but do not neglect expertise, unless you have dps that can see a skull icon. After a few aoe attacks, vengeance should make both irrelevant, thou.
 
Again agree :P I maxed out my blacksmith to realize there is nothing to do except some pvp gear.. and I don't care about pvp..

then there is 2 epics I can do with chaos orb which they are bop and drop of heroics, but how to get geared for it?

Then some epics on AH in ridiculous prices..all professions are useless the only thing they can offer you is 2 socket, and some enchants..

In leveling the mats required to craft an item for your level, drop or can be extracted in level zones 10+ of your level..

At max level there is no set craft at least 333 ilvl to help you prepare for dungeons

not only blacksmith.. tailoring and leatherworking have the same problem exactly.
 
you didn't catch the point guys.. tanking have responsibilities.. you cannot go tank in greens or low blues.. except if your healers is decent geared..

while as dps you can come with greens and usually from 3 dps someone will do the job..

yesterday did Deadmines heroic and we had a warlock having 5k dps wit h3 buff of luck of the draw.. but we did it because our hunter did exceptional dps..

Imagine if the tank or healer was in that situation..

Tank and healers must have the easiest access to starting gear (I don't mean epics, but a good starting gear)
 
Btw, here's the list i used at the time, it is very helpful :

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=3&t=30230&rb_v=viewtopic

(google "pre raid tanking gear")
 
you didn't catch the point guys.. tanking have responsibilities.. you cannot go tank in greens or low blues.. except if your healers is decent geared..

I perfectly remember tanking my first heroic with rep blues (333/346) and one 318 green. It was hard because i had to learn the boss mechanics, but using CCs, the trash was fine. The run was long because we had crap dps and the mobs were dying slowly :)
 
>> iLevel 308, hardly what you'd be wearing at level 85.

In fact, that's pretty enough for level 85 normals. If you wanted heroics right upon reaching 85, that's another story - indeed, for tanks it is more difficult than for others.
 
not only blacksmith.. tailoring and leatherworking have the same problem exactly

Dunno about leatherworking, but tailoring does NOT have that problem. The crafted epic iLevel 359 cloth belts and robes are made without Chaos Orbs. They use Dreamcloth instead, of which you can make 5 per week using only cloth and volatiles, only the 6th needs Chaos Orbs.
 
you can also run heroics as dps (works at least for the orbs), hopefully getting a few pieces the tank doesnt want.

Finally, really, 346 gear is enough. Don't be foiled by the purple color. Unless you're doing heroic RAIDS, you don't need epics at all. 346 -> 359 is a marginal upgrade.
 
Most likely the tanking gear on the AH is higher because less people tank so it's not as profitable to keep the gear up. More DPS means more regular income for those pieces.

It doesn't help that crafting has always been an after thought instead of an integral part of the game.
 
Do you not have any blacksmiths in your guild who you could ask?

I don't remember tank gearing being all that hard. Just run lots of normal instances - you'll get rep and the loot will be upgrades.
 
Do you not have any blacksmiths in your guild who you could ask?

Wrong server. Most of my characters are Horde and in a guild. My paladin is Alliance, on a different server, and guilded only with my own alts and the characters of my wife, because she needs a guild bank for all her stuff. :)
 
ah. Perhaps slap a tabard and start tanking normals, then? :)

Once you've tanked all the normals, you'll get a feel about those you find easiest. Start with those on heroic setting.

Run algaloth as dps, too. Might drop 2 more epics. (6 counting your offspecs)
 
I perfectly remember tanking my first heroic with rep blues (333/346) and one 318 green. It was hard because i had to learn the boss mechanics, but using CCs, the trash was fine. The run was long because we had crap dps and the mobs were dying slowly :)

And your random group was perfectly happy going that slow pace?

You lucky bastard =\
 
And your random group was perfectly happy going that slow pace?

Quite so! if i remember correctly, it was january, almost everybody sucked anyway :)

It will work even more now. Also, keep in mind you're a tank. If you're grouped with idiots, you can queue as much as you want until you get grouped with decent players.
 
I found this guide on gearing a fresh level 85 tankadin helpful:

http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/03/18/the-light-and-how-to-swing-it-gearing-your-tankadin-for-heroics
 
Tobold, my warrior had at 83 an average equipped itemlevel of 329 with only profession, reputation, quest and boe. Not a single item from the 84+ dungeons and only two of them were reforged dps items.

Of course the two jewelcrafting trinkets push it quite a bit, but I'm sure a full clear of Twilight Highlands, a couple of rep items and 7-10k gold invested in materials and blacksmith fees would gear you perfectly for 5man heros.

Chaos orbs are down to 150g on my server and paying a crafter is always cheaper than buying the product.
 
This comment has been removed by the author.
 
Stonewrapped Greaves - 333 boots, Ramhaken Honored, +1/3 ilvl
Impetuous Query - 333 trinket, BoE drop, +1/3 ilvl
Elementium Guardian - 346 neck, JC, +4/3 ilvl
Elementium Moebius Band - 346 ring, JC, +4/3 ilvl
Notched Jawbone - 346 relic, Inscription, +4/3 ilvl
Hardened Elementium Hauberk - 359 chest, BS, +7/3 ilvl
Elementium Earthguard - 359 shield, BS, +7/3 ilvl
Hardened Elementium Girdle - 359 belt, BS, +7/3 ilvl

There are 17 equipment slots, and filling them with the 8 items listed gives you approximately +11 ilvl over the 329 needed for Heroic dungeons. That means that the rest of your gear can be 2 308s and 7 316s for quest rewards, and you'll still be able to do heroic dungeons. Of course I didn't include any of the Redsteel set, which as mentioned above can be reforged and still work great. Redsteel gear instead of the BS epics just means you need to upgrade your 308s faster. I'd say that you can get yourself to 14/17 346+ in 10 heroic runs after that.

How is this not worth your while? If you ran mining, you'll spend at most 5k procuring mats and covering orb costs. People in trade chat will make all you need for mats and 100g tips. 5k gold is a joke to obtain while leveling - doing 3 Cata zones worth of quests gives you that much already, not to mention gold made from AHing excess obsidium ore. At 2x heroics per night, it took me five days after singing 85 to get raid ready and run BH, Conclave, and 5/6 BWD with pugs on night 6...

Tanks are by far the easiest to gear quickly. Which is contributing to the tank shortage - I run heroics only for orbs right now, since I don't even care about rep now that I have exalted therazane and can get purples from raids. Just gotta look past your own nose =/
 
Many posters upper in this thread have shown how to gear up a tank; it's basicly possible but requires research and investment.

I feel there's a problem with this model : it's much more difficult for a tank to get started without previous planning than for a dps. What about making this step easier (don't know how...) as a solution to the tank shortage?
 
Agree with Silent.Alias.

Link your character if you want Tobold and we can help you out even further (i.e so we can see what you got and what you need). I do this for my guildies all the time, as we're a small guild and need to fast track people for raids quickly.

If you don't want to relay it publicly, feel free to email me directly (nollind (at) whachell.com).

PS. Nice to hear you have a pally, makes tanking much easier, especially with their auto smart Avenging Shield (i.e. doesn't break CCs).
 
I feel there's a problem with this model : it's much more difficult for a tank to get started without previous planning than for a dps. What about making this step easier (don't know how...) as a solution to the tank shortage?

I don't think getting a tank started is more difficult than a dps if you level as tank from Uldum or at the very least Twilight Highlands.

If you decide at 85 to respec tanking you just can't get any tank quest rewards again that you horked/de'ed. Players who decide at 85 to tank also won't have much 333+ defplate stashed from their instance runs as dps.

The hardened obsidium set is excellent to put on your 80s toon and then level as tank. Such a set for 85s would be much appreciated, if only ilvl 325.
 
I'm sorry but I think your post just pointed out the issues with crafting and AH.

I recently saw someone advertising in trade BS orbs for 75g apiece. So the healer shield that sells for about 3000g according to TUJ can be crafted for about 1600g plus tip. I loathe trade chat but even I do not buy epics from the AH. Don't take the AH as indicative of the gear situation.

My pally is at 84.6 and just doing dailies atm. But I am looking at silent alias' shopping list. Eventually I want the Ramaken rep belt. I will also add the BoE valor boots and the Earthquake DMC card (which all the cool kids disdain but it is not that bad of starter gear). And the TB trinket is also decent.
 
I'm not saying that it isn't possible, but it very much pisses me off to have to search for another blacksmith with my max skill blacksmith to get gear. Especially since that wasn't the case for tailoring.
 
re ^:

Oh yes, I can complain for a considerable length of time about the BoP Chaos Orbs, that my JC/Scribe can't even roll and that most of my alts have to hit 84 and do a nontrivial number of quests in SW & TH to get recipes.

There is much to complain about re professions in Cataclysm.

Tailors have their own special complaint. It is a royal pain, but a new tank can get as many CO as their guildies can carry them in a day. Tailors have the week c/d.
 
I'm not saying that it isn't possible, but it very much pisses me off to have to search for another blacksmith with my max skill blacksmith to get gear.

But then again, the blacksmith items are not really required to tank heroics. You can tank heroics in blues:

Breast: 333 from quest in Grim Batol or 346 for Justice Points
Waist: 333 from Lost City or 346 from JP
Shield: 333 from THighlands starting quest, 325 BoE if you horked it, 346 for Justice Points

Then just pick up some friends/randoms from your own server to keep the orbs for shortening their waiting time. 6 runs = 6 orbs as a tank :-)
 
As others had said the BS shield and belt should be under 3k, the chest may not be.

But normals are not that hard now and award a lot of JP.

Tanks are harder to gear up, The vp and Darkmoon card both being lacklustre does not help with that. But as long as you can do your first normal, 2 weeks of daily normal should see you well geared in JP gear and ready for heroics.
 
Or you could just pug as dps and roll on the tank gear like everyone else in the same situation :)
 
Found this guide on Maintankadin if you're still considering a run with your Pally:
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29732
 
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