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Friday, June 23, 2023
Is Final Fantasy XVI still Final Fantasy?
Final Fantasy XVI got released yesterday, to favorable early reviews. I am generally a fan of Final Fantasy games, with my favorites being VII and IX. But I am having difficulties to recognize XVI as being part of that series. Final Fantasy XVI completed a shift which turns the game into a full action combat game, which often plays more like a game from the Devil May Cry series than like a turn-based Final Fantasy game. And given that Final Fantasy games don't play in the same universe or even genre, with some being more fantasy and others more science-fiction, it is very hard to identify XVI as a sequel. Does adding a chocobo mount make any game a Final Fantasy game?
Imagine you buy Civilization 7 in the future, and discover it has been turned into a real-time strategy game. Would that still be Civilization? What if Grand Theft Auto 7 would be a criminal gang management simulation? What if the next Call of Duty game was a strategy war game with a hex map? Or the next Super Mario game a first-person shooter? When is a game not a sequel anymore?
For me, the very interest of a sequel is that you know what you will get, if you played previous games of the same series. I still haven't played Diablo IV, but I have a pretty good idea of what the gameplay experience is like. I bought Age of Wonders 4, because I liked Age of Wonders 3 and Age of Wonders: Planetfall. Sequels can still be innovative: Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild was a big leap forward for the Legend of Zelda series, while still being very recognizably a Zelda game.
At the very least I would say that changing basic gameplay requires the game to be marketed as some sort of spin-off, rather than part of the main series. I played Assassin's Creed Rebellion, which is a mobile game with gameplay very unlike the Assassin's Creed main series; but marketing made it very obvious that this wasn't an open world game ported to a mobile platform.
The reason for Final Fantasy to pivot from turn-based to action combat probably has to do with the perception that action combat is more popular. However, I'm not sure that works out so well. Most reviews that I saw about FF16 mention that the action combat in that game isn't quite as good as in <insert known action combat game series here>. Fans of action games don't have fond memories of previous Final Fantasy games. And people with fond memories of previous Final Fantasy games often liked the previous turn-based combat. Sequels work not just because of customers' brand loyalty, but on those customers associating the brand with certain expectations of gameplay. Radically changing gameplay risks to disappoint those expectations. That might boost the sales of a game "falsely" branded as a sequel, but at the cost of the long-term loyalty of customers to that brand.
- posted by Tobold @ 8:29 AM Permanent Link
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If it's branded "Final Fantasy" and it's produced by Square Enix, it's a Final Fantasy game. Whether it's commercially successful, pleases the existing audience or finds a new one is another matter altogether. It's a bit like bands releasing albums; it's not unusual for them to pivot from one style to another, sometimes making a radical change of direction, as was perfectly parodied in Spinal Tap. Whether there's an audience for a collection of acoustic ballads by a band that made its name playing thrash metal is another matter but it's certainly the same band and the same brand.
Looks like the developer has addressed this question. Whatever the game is, it doesn't appear to be for me. I tried FFXV and couldn't play more than forty four minutes (thanks Steam) before I realized that I hated the movement, combat, and the acting was horrible - just not a pleasant experience for me. I tried to like it, wanted to like it, but I couldn't get past how bad the actual gameplay was to me.
The worst thing about that was self-inflicted. I bought the game on Steam and let it sit while I finished playing another game. I never thought that I'd hate the game because "it's a Final Fantasy game". I've never "hated" one before and I played almost all of them, even trying FFXIV when it came out. So I didn't play it for a month and when I did I regretted my choice. I tried to get a refund, but after a month it was too long, even with only forty four minutes played. I knew it was time for me to move on from Final Fantasy for exactly what you're expressing here. It wasn't the game that I thought it was. The game had moved on and I hadn't. I wanted that feeling of FFVII, FFIII, FFIX, and it was clear to me that the developers had moved on.
If I end up being wrong about XVI then I'll get it on sale years down the road.
https://www.ign.com/articles/how-final-fantasy-xvi-redefines-the-series-again-and-dont-call-it-a-jrpg
The worst thing about that was self-inflicted. I bought the game on Steam and let it sit while I finished playing another game. I never thought that I'd hate the game because "it's a Final Fantasy game". I've never "hated" one before and I played almost all of them, even trying FFXIV when it came out. So I didn't play it for a month and when I did I regretted my choice. I tried to get a refund, but after a month it was too long, even with only forty four minutes played. I knew it was time for me to move on from Final Fantasy for exactly what you're expressing here. It wasn't the game that I thought it was. The game had moved on and I hadn't. I wanted that feeling of FFVII, FFIII, FFIX, and it was clear to me that the developers had moved on.
If I end up being wrong about XVI then I'll get it on sale years down the road.
https://www.ign.com/articles/how-final-fantasy-xvi-redefines-the-series-again-and-dont-call-it-a-jrpg
I don't know. I think games changing their formula in long standing franchises is pretty common. It is also not like FFXVI is the first time they did this, with 2 or 3 mmos in the lineup. The last 3 assassins creeds do not play like the starters in any way and are hardly the same game.
Sticking to a formula can be worthwhile, but it also creates 'Oh, this is more of the same', as in for example the far cry series.
Nobody really knows what is best, and both options have their merits. The way the producer goes is probably quite reliant on the succes of the previous version.
About Final Fantasy: For me that is a setting, not a game type, and while I started FF in FFVII, I am bored of the JRPG at the moment and would've happily bought the new version if it wasn't a PS exclusive.
Sticking to a formula can be worthwhile, but it also creates 'Oh, this is more of the same', as in for example the far cry series.
Nobody really knows what is best, and both options have their merits. The way the producer goes is probably quite reliant on the succes of the previous version.
About Final Fantasy: For me that is a setting, not a game type, and while I started FF in FFVII, I am bored of the JRPG at the moment and would've happily bought the new version if it wasn't a PS exclusive.
I guess it depends on how you view games. Is what makes a Final Fantasy game a Final Fantasy game the genre, ie how the player interacts with the game world, or is it everything else?
The lead if XVI said an in interview the change in the combat was an attempt to move and aging franchise forward. He even mentions how newer generations want instant gratification and he doesn't think turn based combat will be as popular with them.
I recommend you check out Skill Ups review if the game as he touches on some of the same points you make here Tobold and he also mentions the interview with Yoshi-P.
The lead if XVI said an in interview the change in the combat was an attempt to move and aging franchise forward. He even mentions how newer generations want instant gratification and he doesn't think turn based combat will be as popular with them.
I recommend you check out Skill Ups review if the game as he touches on some of the same points you make here Tobold and he also mentions the interview with Yoshi-P.
Link to the Skill Ups review
The only thing I fundamentally disagree with in this review is making a connection between a review score of 95 and "if you walk into a room of 10 random people, nine-and-a-half of them will like Final Fantasy XVI". I don't think review scores work like that or are in any form a probability of a random person liking a game.
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The only thing I fundamentally disagree with in this review is making a connection between a review score of 95 and "if you walk into a room of 10 random people, nine-and-a-half of them will like Final Fantasy XVI". I don't think review scores work like that or are in any form a probability of a random person liking a game.
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