This highlights what I see as a problem with the whole concept of gaming, namely that many things games require a player to do are entirely within that player's capabilities but which also ask for a much bigger commitment of either time or effort than seems remotely reasonable for throwaway entertainment. A lot of this is counter-balanced by the learning process, which leaves the player with transferable skills that make the whole enterprise feel more worthwhile, but after a time those skills have indeed transferred so each new game adds very little to the baseline, only a cruft of specific detail that stays with that game and never transfers to anything else.

When you hit that point, even new games cease to be anything like as rewarding as they would have been had you encountered them at an earlier stage of your development as a gamer. That's when you start to wonder if constantly learning the minutiae of an endless series of games is really a good use of your time.
 

Interesting. Different strokes for different folks. I personally really enjoy games where one of the main paths of progression is player knowledge. Going into those experiences blind and figuring things out and feeling stronger because I now understand the game more is enjoyable for me. It's one the reasons I like soulslike games so much.
 

I'm curious which 3 classes you used? It might have been the most complex ones. And there is randomness in that the wrong enemy card flips at the wrong time can make a substantial short-term difference.

We didn't think it was that tough, our group has been managing well enough, lost maybe twice in about 15 scenarios, and never so early. Generally at normal difficulty. They all played about a third of Gloomhaven a couple of years back. But they're not *Haven die-hards by any means. Just good strategists. We did drop our Geminate, had a hard time making that one work.
 

Actually I used three less complex ones: Bannerspeae, Deathwalker, Drifter. But for example the Drifter never explained his main ability, and I didn’t understand that I first needed to play boosting cards, and then play cards that reset those boosts. Likewise I found the management of the shadows for the Deathwalker confusing in the first game. Only the Bannerspear was easy.
 

Kind of reminds me of how I started Gloomhaven Digital. Tried Normal difficulty with 4 characters but couldn't get past the first room in first scenario without losing someone. Scaled down to 2 and Easy and it went smoothly. Then replayed with 2 on Normal with some reloads due to Modifiers deck. In a few level-ups, with heavily trimmed Modifiers decks with 90% x1 cards it was enjoyably playable at Normal with almost no reloads. Suppose that AI always plays to the best of its ability, so until you get to know characters, it's better to go down on difficulty and party size.
 

The Steam reviews have gone up to Very Positive, but a lot of them seem to be complaining about bugs.

I agree that 'puzzle RPGs' are a bad idea (I was very disappointed in Druidstone). A really tough opening is fine in roguelikes because everything will be different next time you play, so it's fine to learn by dying a lot.

[Speaking of Druidstone, the makers previously made the Grimrock games which also don't have random maps. The difference is that they are mostly more about execution than knowing exactly what arbitrary steps to take to complete the level, so it works fine in those.]
 

You're so right about Druidstone, Gerry! I play many RPGs and lots of puzzle games. So I bought that, tried the first fight, noped right out, and never been back. And I'm so flooded with good games now that I'll probably never try it again.
 

I found out why I completely failed my first game of Frosthaven: I followed standard Gloomhaven strategy of not using any burn effects until late in the game. It turns out that Frosthaven classes like Drifter and Deathwalker don't work at all if you don't use their persistent burn cards very early in the game.