Tobold's Blog
Tuesday, February 28, 2006
 
Combat animations

Watching the Darkfall video I realized that what I liked the least about it was how the characters moved in combat. Darkfall is a real time action combat based MMORPG, and the characters move accordingly: fast movements, strafing, circling, the whole deal of typical FPS movements. Which looks *extremely* silly on knights in heavy plate armor. I never tried wearing a real plate armor, but I'm pretty sure that a knight wearing 40 kg of heavy metal didn't strafe and jump around.

The other extreme is classic PvE MMORPG combat, where there is little need to move at all, at least not in soloing. I remember playing games like Anarchy Online, where your weapon was some sort of futuristic gun, and combat consisted of you standing toe to toe with an NPC mob, with you and your enemy firing huge laser guns at each other from very close range for one or two minutes, without moving. Needless to say that this didn't look like realistic combat either.

One of the reasons that I don't like WoW PvP is that I always end up fighting some nervous youngster who is trying all this strafing and jumping nonsense around me. I don't believe that in a real swordfight it would be possible to run around somebody and stab him in the back. In a pen & paper combat system like D&D, you have a "zone of control", and if the enemy tries to move around in that zone, you get free hits on him. That is realistic, because if somebody is attacking you with a sword, you don't really have time to do much fancy footwork.

I can see how a MMORPG combat system in which you had to react more in real time could be popular. But *not* by allowing people to move around at full run speed in combat, without any penalties. The combat in Auto Assault wasn't bad, because trying to race after another car while keeping it in your arc of fire was both fun and feeling realistic. But that only works for shooting games, not for melee combat games. If I would design a real time melee combat system, I would dramatically slow down movement speed whenever you are in combat mode, but allow the opponents to click high, mid, or low on their enemies, and allow targeted defensive moves as well as attacks. Predicting, or reacting very quickly to what you see your opponent doing would be rewarded. See an opening, hit it. Think your opponent will swing high, raise your shield. And so on.

The standard MMORPG auto-combat with special attacks thrown in got better with time, but it is getting a bit stale by now. Special move combos, like the renkai chains of FFXI or the less good heroic opportunities of EQ2 are one way to make MMORPG combat more interesting, but there could be better ways. And ideally a game should have classes which click more in combat, and others which click less, to appeal to the different tastes. That is something that WoW does well, a rogue mashes a lot more buttons per combat than a warrior, for example. Just going back to a Diablo-style click-fest combat is not an improvement. If a MMORPG combat doesn't *look* real, chances are that it isn't much fun in the first place.
Comments:
As I've said before about Darkfall... the ideas are sound, but their tech is suspect. I hope they can fix it up before release, but who knows.

I was not impressed with the choppy video at all and it was disapointing. They need to clean it up.

Now a knight in plate would have little to no movement abilities on foot. Lighter armor was required for infantry on foot. Plate armor was horseback only... we're talking upwards of 500lbs of metal!

But these are games and plate armor looks cool. I try not to make real life comparisons... I try to free my mind so to speak. That said there is some things that just look silly... like the big hammers in Guild Wars.

My biggest gripe with MMOs is lack of collision detection because I loved that in Ultima Online.
 
If we're going for more realism, I'd also ask that the actual defensive mechanics of the armors be more robust. In exchange for the slower movement speed of plate armor, it should also provide significantly more protection such as an inherent chance to deflect incoming weapon blows. On the other hand, cloth and leather armor should carry an inherent chance that the weapon blow "punctures" the armor and full damage (unreduced) is taken. With bonuses and penalties such as these, the armor-wearing abilities and armors could become a more significant aspect of the game. The cloth-wearers might be less inclined to over-aggro since their tanking capabilities would be significantly more dangerous and weak. (And I don't mean anything like DAoC's stupid resistance chart where one armor type is inherently resistant to crush damage but susceptible to thrust.)
 
It's worth noting that in real sword combat (which I've done a certain amount of), it's actually fairly easy to move around and circle. The problem is that it's much quicker to simply turn around than it is to try and circle your opponent, so it's really hard to get to their back - and, of course, Real Life has collision detection, so going through them isn't an option (er, usually. German Longsword enthusiasts might dispute me on that).

- Hugh
 
Hi Tobold,

Have you perhaps tried out "Mount & Blade"? It's an indie action rpg "in construction", that goes a considerable way in the direction of a "realistic" (pseudo-) medieval combat system.
Ever since discovering it (through Abalieno's site) I've been playing it and, as a historical re-enactor, I am quite pleased with it. I would say that the game's designer is moving in the right direction - and I sure hope others, including future mmorpg designers - will continue travelling down that road.

Oh, and yes, I agree with you, the point-and-click combat systems are becoming pretty stale. Verily!
 
Dungeons and Dragons Online has kinda twitchy, move-around-a-lot combat, but the pacing is much more realistic, and I am finding that, now I've moved to AWSD control, I really like it.

As regards the jump-bouncy-teenager issue in PvP on WoW, I generally just slowly move backwards in a gradual circle when feral-druid-bearing my way against these people. Sometimes they are so fixated with their one, backstab tactic that they do literally *zero* damage (you get none for a failed backstab, it just stops your attack): only last night I beat a lvl 29 ally rogue in 1-on-1 in WSG with my latest alt (lvl 25 tauren druid). I would have loved to see his face after that.
 
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