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Friday, April 21, 2006
WoW at 60 review
I found this blog entry from two fellow blogspotters writing a review of World of Warcraft at level 60. Well, it is more a rant than a review, but interesting to read nevertheless. The two writers seem to very much part of the previously mentioned "dark matter", preferring to solo World of Warcraft, except for being more vocal than others. Unsurprisingly they don't like WoW at 60 very much.
What I found interesting is the very Tobold-like approach of counting how many hours it would take to get the Helm of Valor, the Darkmoon Amulet, or The Unstoppable Force. The first is gained by doing Scholomance on average 16 times at 3 hours each, the second is done by handing in a megaton of Thorium Widgets, and the third is done by grinding honor in PvP. Easy to see how neither of these options is highly desirable to a casual player.
Me, I'm more middle-class than casual, and I do like 5-man groups, so at least the doing Scholomance and other dungeons option doesn't sound that bad to me. I wouldn't try to grind the Darkmoon Amulet, but I am grinding Thorium Brotherhood faction for the moment, which is only slightly less annoying. In PvP I never got past Sergeant rank. A bit further into the game than the writers of this review, but not all that much. So I can only applaud their advice to the WoW player at 60:
You have nothing to prove to the cyber community. If you stay true to what you want, and don't over commit your WoW time, you can still have fun, you just won't look as pretty.
- posted by Tobold @ 3:14 PM Permanent Link
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I think Tobold's closing line is the best. Do what it is the makes "you" happy in the game. Period. You want to be a teamplayer but don't let guild goals or other player's greed for phat loot consume your game.
I play solo a good majority of the time until 55+ where you must group to start your MC preparation. As for rank - cant be bothered. Its too much of a grind with only phat loot rewards. I just don't have to have the biggest stick or shiniest armor to have fun in the game.
I play solo a good majority of the time until 55+ where you must group to start your MC preparation. As for rank - cant be bothered. Its too much of a grind with only phat loot rewards. I just don't have to have the biggest stick or shiniest armor to have fun in the game.
# posted by 
: 21/4/06 21:48
: 21/4/06 21:48
Yeah, great line, but unfortunately not mine. Quote from the rant/review I linked to.
The people who want to solo WoW and get disappointed at level 60 have my fullest understanding. I don't play like that, but at least I can understand where the problem is: Blizzard pulled a bait and switch scam on them. If you played a game solo for 500 hours to level 60, you think you know what the game is all about. And then it suddenly all changes.
Neither soloing or playing with others is the "one true way" to play WoW, both are possible and completely viable until you reach level 60. And then the solo game suddenly stops and only the social game remains. For the people who prefer social, WoW starts at 60. For the people who prefer solo, WoW ends there.
The people who want to solo WoW and get disappointed at level 60 have my fullest understanding. I don't play like that, but at least I can understand where the problem is: Blizzard pulled a bait and switch scam on them. If you played a game solo for 500 hours to level 60, you think you know what the game is all about. And then it suddenly all changes.
Neither soloing or playing with others is the "one true way" to play WoW, both are possible and completely viable until you reach level 60. And then the solo game suddenly stops and only the social game remains. For the people who prefer social, WoW starts at 60. For the people who prefer solo, WoW ends there.
New to MMORPG most probably, Brian. WoW has so many more subscribers than any other MMORPG, a large majority of them *must* be new to MMORPG.
Soloing WoW only feels "silly" if you played forced-grouping MMORPG like Everquest before.
Soloing WoW only feels "silly" if you played forced-grouping MMORPG like Everquest before.
I play several classes, but my one, true love is the Hunter. I solo a lot of the time, but it just seems natural to me for the Hunter to do that.
When I play my Warrior, Druid, or Shaman, I will still solo a lot, but I'm more inclined to LFG than I will with my Hunters. On the 1.10 Speed Leveling Server I solo'd all three Hunters to 25 simply because I needed to get there as fast as I could and grouping slowed my xp/hr rate way down. I didn't solo completely because I wanted to run Deadmines for the Van Cleef/Westfall reward gear, and I grouped for the Raven Hill cemetary quests, but everything else was a grind. It was not fun at all, especially for the 3rd toon, by then it was a chore.
With my 60 Dwarven Hunter I am grinding for the Darkmoon Faire, I'm also grind/leveling the RFK Boar I recently got which has made the Rugged Leather grind a little more enjoyable. I then mail the Leather to a former Guildy who turns it into Armor Kits for me (she LOVES making stuff) and mails it back. I'm about 1/6 of the way towards getting my Darkmoon Amulet.
I agree. WoW at 60 for the less than Hardcore Raider can be very boring.
I don't think there was any Bait & Switch on Blizzard's part. There are a ton of Dungeons & quests on the way to 60. If you solo'd all the way to the top it was because you didn't play WoW the way Blizzard wanted you to play it. I'm not being critical of the solo player, just agreeing that WoW practically ends at 60 for the soloing or more casual player.
Sorry for the long post.
When I play my Warrior, Druid, or Shaman, I will still solo a lot, but I'm more inclined to LFG than I will with my Hunters. On the 1.10 Speed Leveling Server I solo'd all three Hunters to 25 simply because I needed to get there as fast as I could and grouping slowed my xp/hr rate way down. I didn't solo completely because I wanted to run Deadmines for the Van Cleef/Westfall reward gear, and I grouped for the Raven Hill cemetary quests, but everything else was a grind. It was not fun at all, especially for the 3rd toon, by then it was a chore.
With my 60 Dwarven Hunter I am grinding for the Darkmoon Faire, I'm also grind/leveling the RFK Boar I recently got which has made the Rugged Leather grind a little more enjoyable. I then mail the Leather to a former Guildy who turns it into Armor Kits for me (she LOVES making stuff) and mails it back. I'm about 1/6 of the way towards getting my Darkmoon Amulet.
I agree. WoW at 60 for the less than Hardcore Raider can be very boring.
I don't think there was any Bait & Switch on Blizzard's part. There are a ton of Dungeons & quests on the way to 60. If you solo'd all the way to the top it was because you didn't play WoW the way Blizzard wanted you to play it. I'm not being critical of the solo player, just agreeing that WoW practically ends at 60 for the soloing or more casual player.
Sorry for the long post.
As the author of the 2nd half of the linked review I would like to respond to this social/solo commentary displayed so far.
First of all, I believe it is impossible not to socialize in an MMO at any point in the game unless you are a Farmer or something similar. You have to socialize. It isn't like playing the campaigns in Warcraft III.
The depth one goes into socialize can vary though. Pre-60 I was a very social gamer. Guild chatting, Barrens Chatting, Running low, mid, and high mid instances (Wailing Caverns to Sunken Temple) numerous times. Organizing guild runs or raids in World PVP. I did all of that.
When people assume a more casual player isn't a social gamer it irritates me. It is the exact mentality that I have a problem with at 60.
All of the sudden the things I mentioned don't matter. If I'm not "socializing" during an end game raid run or 6 hour honor farming session with my guild...I'm a "solo player". No, I'm a player whose real life interests and priorities are a bit more important than having gear with purple text. Period.
I really wish folks like Brian would actually digest text instead of glazing over and scanning it. I don't recall ever stating that pre-60 I didn't socialize. I didn't think I had to mention whether or not I socialized because it is a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game.
As far as my expectations for 60 from a casual gamers perspective...I was honestly surprised at the percentage of gamers who don't know how to perform there roles in a pick up group. I had assumed that Scholo or UBRS runs wouldn't fail 75 percent of the time. It isn't like the content is that difficult. I was just proposing a theory as to why this is the case. I believe that such an easy level grind promotes this situation. I also didn't expect that my opinions on basically anything would be ignored simply because of what gear I have/don't have.
Then again, my mains are on a PvP server. I have rolled characters on RP and PvE servers and they seem to be a bit less...how shall I say it...intense. What is probably the most infuriating though is that this is not Blizzard's fault really. Such a massive player base is going to create its own social environment that the developers can't really control. I guess I just don't like how it turned out that much.
But I am looking forward to diving back into WoW once the expansion comes out. Too curious of a cat not to check that out.
First of all, I believe it is impossible not to socialize in an MMO at any point in the game unless you are a Farmer or something similar. You have to socialize. It isn't like playing the campaigns in Warcraft III.
The depth one goes into socialize can vary though. Pre-60 I was a very social gamer. Guild chatting, Barrens Chatting, Running low, mid, and high mid instances (Wailing Caverns to Sunken Temple) numerous times. Organizing guild runs or raids in World PVP. I did all of that.
When people assume a more casual player isn't a social gamer it irritates me. It is the exact mentality that I have a problem with at 60.
All of the sudden the things I mentioned don't matter. If I'm not "socializing" during an end game raid run or 6 hour honor farming session with my guild...I'm a "solo player". No, I'm a player whose real life interests and priorities are a bit more important than having gear with purple text. Period.
I really wish folks like Brian would actually digest text instead of glazing over and scanning it. I don't recall ever stating that pre-60 I didn't socialize. I didn't think I had to mention whether or not I socialized because it is a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game.
As far as my expectations for 60 from a casual gamers perspective...I was honestly surprised at the percentage of gamers who don't know how to perform there roles in a pick up group. I had assumed that Scholo or UBRS runs wouldn't fail 75 percent of the time. It isn't like the content is that difficult. I was just proposing a theory as to why this is the case. I believe that such an easy level grind promotes this situation. I also didn't expect that my opinions on basically anything would be ignored simply because of what gear I have/don't have.
Then again, my mains are on a PvP server. I have rolled characters on RP and PvE servers and they seem to be a bit less...how shall I say it...intense. What is probably the most infuriating though is that this is not Blizzard's fault really. Such a massive player base is going to create its own social environment that the developers can't really control. I guess I just don't like how it turned out that much.
But I am looking forward to diving back into WoW once the expansion comes out. Too curious of a cat not to check that out.
# posted by : 5/5/06 07:04
: 5/5/06 07:04
Same situation here, Harshly. My favorite content in WoW is 5-man dungeons, because I feel that 5-man groups are MORE social than 40-man raids. If a raid is well organized, chatting is frowned upon, and there is no social interaction at all. Unless you define being a small wheel in a big machine with 39 other wheels a social interaction.
When I visit the web sites of the most successful raiding guilds on the servers I'm on, I see guild rules like "If you go on a three week holiday, you get kicked out of the guild". That kind of rule makes totally sense if you think of the guild as a machine, or an army. But they aren't very social. I would never want to be in a guild where people are not regarded as persons, but just as functional unit. I am not a "tank with tier 0 armor and Onyxia key", I am a real person who just happens to play a character like that.
When I visit the web sites of the most successful raiding guilds on the servers I'm on, I see guild rules like "If you go on a three week holiday, you get kicked out of the guild". That kind of rule makes totally sense if you think of the guild as a machine, or an army. But they aren't very social. I would never want to be in a guild where people are not regarded as persons, but just as functional unit. I am not a "tank with tier 0 armor and Onyxia key", I am a real person who just happens to play a character like that.
for casual players or parents of young children who enjoy a few hours per night the game is over at 60, once you hit level 60 in shadowlands, its either become hardcore raid status for gear get a really good close nit group for mythics, and if you don't enjoy losses in every single BG and getting one shot by full glad players who have no time for outdoors trying to farm honor just so you can get into rated battles, the only thing left to do is make a new toon.
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