Tobold's Blog
Tuesday, May 02, 2006
 
WoW Journal - 2-May-2006

I did a bit of everything in World of Warcraft this weekend, playing many different characters of different levels. I think I'm a bit beyond the point where I "have to" reach a specific goal or advance a specific character, nowadays I'm just playing for fun.

I don't really have a "main" character, but if I had to designate one of my chars as such, it would probably be Raslebol, my troll warrior, who is the first of my MMORPG characters ever to hit a games level cap. I'm playing him more often again nowadays. My guild used to have too many warriors and not enough priests, so I leveled up a priest to 60 and played that one, but nowadays the situation has reversed, and we have plenty of priests and few warriors. So I played Raslebol several times this extended weekend with my guild. I already told about the two raids, but I also visited Scholomance and Stratholme.

Scholomance was fun, because we had a nearly perfect group and cleared out the complete dungeon, including the nasty side area with Jandice Barav. Raslebol had a quest for turning the lich Ras Frostwhisper into a human since many months, and now I finally got to do it. The groups secondary tank held the lich's aggro while I was transforming him from maximum range, and that worked very well, without getting interrupted. The transformation turns the fearsome looking lich into a human in underpants, which is hilarious. He still keeps the same abilities and loot, so nothing really changes in the fight, but it did get me the quest done. The reward for the quest was a shield which was a slight improvement over what I had before, but most importantly looked much better. My previous shield was one of the many shields with a small buckler look with a skull painted on, which just looked tiny in my trolls hand. Now I have a tower shield which looks a bit more unique.

After Ras Frostwhisper, we killed the 6 bosses which make headmaster Gandling spawn, and then the headmaster. I've read somewhere that Blizzard wants to put better loot on those 6 bosses, which is really necessary. The fights are tough for a group of 5, and several of them just dropped a nearly useless dark rune and a stone for Argent Dawn faction. These bosses used to drop parts from green armor sets. But now these armor sets have been upgraded to blue, and turned into ultra-rare drops, we didn't find a single piece on 6 bosses, which is pretty stupid. That is *not* what I understand under "improved loot", as announced in the dungeon improvements. These 6 bosses should together drop at least 2 of these armor parts, otherwise there is no point in going there to collect the set.

The Stratholme group started as something completely different. I asked in guild chat if some kind soul would help me farm Frostmaul Giants in Winterspring, which at level 60 elite are just a bit too tough to solo for me. According to Thottbot they have a 2% chance to drop the recipe for greater frost protection potion. But I always suspect that Thottbot only counts drop percentages when there is any item loot at all, so if half of the giants only drop money, they aren't counted and the real chance to find the recipe would be only 1%, which could take a lot of farming to find. So two friendly guild mates volunteer to help me, and a third one logs in while we are already in Winterspring, sees that there is a guild group there, and asks to join too. Before he even gets to us, we kill the 5th Frostmaul Giant and find the recipe, an extraordinary streak of luck. Now I got all 5 greater protection potion recipes on Raslebol: Arcane, Fire, Frost, Nature, and Shadow.

So we have nearly a full group with no more purpose in Winterspring, and decide to invite one more guild mate and go to Stratholme, undead side. As Raslebol was on the "Stratholme in 45 minutes Baron run quest", we got that timer running automatically. Well, the group wasn't quite as experienced as the Scholo group, we had some accidents like me getting feared into another group of mobs, we wiped two or three times, and by the time we killed the Baron we had taken 2 hours. Now somebody is going to tell me again that doing it in 45 minutes is feasible, and I think it is: You just need a group of 5 people doing it repeatedly until they know every corner of the place by heart and play together in perfect harmony. Unfortunately casual players never get into such groups. Doing Stratholme repeatedly with every time a different group is not likely to ever succeed in doing this quest. I would guess that over 90% of the people trying the tier 0.5 upgrade quest series will get stuck at that point. That suits the hardcore players just fine, because they don't want other people to get good gear with a "casual" play style, as that would invalidate their choice of play style. But I still would say that Blizzard claiming that tier 0.5 being the alternative for the casual player isn't exactly truth in advertising. To get the tier 0.5 quest series done, you need to have a raid-like hardcore guild, just with less players than a raid needs. It is an alternative for the top players who for some reason don't have 39 friends and several hours of raiding time available, but for the majority of casual players this still isn't achievable. Stratholme in 45 minutes is basically a 5-person raid, necessitating the same play style of "repeated attempts to perfection" as Onyxia or MC, just with less people.

Nevertheless the Stratholme expedition was fun. We found a lot of tier 0 bracers, belts, and even some gloves. Raslebol didn't find anything that would still be an improvement for him, but at least I got two more quests done there. The only thing that was a bit annoying was that the baron dropped the tier 0 pants for a class that wasn't present in the group. Before the 1.10 patch people used to make "class runs" to dungeons like Stratholme, with one member of every class. So except for the rare cases where the Horde found pally armor, or the Alliance shaman armor, the raid resulted in one member getting the tier 0 pants he needed. Now, with the group size limited to 5, even if there are 5 different classes the chance that the final boss drops armor that is useful is only 55%. In the other 4 out of 9 cases you can only disenchant the loot you get from the final boss, which is a bit sad. Why can't they make the loot tables checking which classes are actually in the group, and only drop useful armor?

As I said, I also played other characters this long weekend. Kyroc, my priest, I didn't really do much with. I went to Silithus and tried out the Field Duty quests. The good thing was that as priest it is possible to solo the part where you need to support a group of Horde guys to kill a giant bug, to get a signature under your field duty papers. So I did that twice, and got a combat quest and a tactical quest. But it turned out that these are group quests. If I wanted to make any significant progress in Cenarion Circle reputation with these, I would need to gather lots of different field duty quests first, and then get a group together killing lots of bugs in a hive, or summoning twilight lords. And I had the impression that not many people are interested in these kind of groups.

I spent more time playing my paladin, who is now level 29. I smithed two green iron hauberks, kept one, sold the other, and then ditched blacksmithing. Now I'm up to 195 in engineering, which is a lot more useful, but expensive. The grenades and bombs of engineering address perfectly the weaknesses of the paladin class, of low damage output and lack of ranged abilities, and make him a lot stronger. At level 29, blowing up several mobs at once for 500 damage with a goblin land mine is pretty powerful. On the downside I spend time mining and gathering resources just for making bombs, without earning any money from crafting. I'll try to sell things like Gyrochronatom, and other engineering supplies that are needed for quests. I have no idea if there is a good market for guns, ammo, and scopes, I will need to explore. The only positive thing is that other classes at 29 need to start thinking of saving up money for a mount, but my pally will get a free horse at 40, so I can spend my money on engineering.

Finally I played my shaman a bit, who happens to also be engineer. For that class it is a less good fit, as my enhancement specced shaman is already a damage machine. And he is level 39 now, and the same goblin land mine is weaker, relatively speaking, because the mobs have a lot more hit points. The shaman went for gnome engineering, making funny gadgets, but I think the pally will go for the more explosive goblin engineering. Waldin, the shaman, finished doing all the quests in Desolace, so now I'm thinking where to go next. I still hate Stranglethorn, so I was thinking Dustwallow Marsh. I remember some fun quests there from the ogre village.

The shaman feels a lot more powerful than the pally, but maybe part of that is that the shaman is twinked to the max, with an epic mace and shield and the best equipment money can buy. The paladin is on a new server, with a very different economy, and no level 60 to support him financially. I got some decent blue pieces from smithing or from dungeons, but most items are green and not of the highest possible level. Not twinking does make a difference, even if I'm playing the pally pretty well, based on economical knowledge and general game knowledge. I was proud when I joined a group to the Stockades and one group member said that I was the best pally he ever played with. Well, the warrior in the group was playing rather badly, for example using intimidating shout in a crowded area and bringing half the dungeon down on us, so it was easy to be the better tank. But it is always nice to be appreciated.
Comments:
"That suits the hardcore players just fine, because they don't want other people to get good gear with a "casual" play style, as that would invalidate their choice of play style."

That's a bit harsh, I would say they don't want people to be able to get the *best* armor with casual play, and I agree with them. I haven't heard many hard-core raiders asking for tier 0 armor nerfs, for example.

"To get the tier 0.5 quest series done, you need to have a raid-like hardcore guild, just with less players than a raid needs."

Well yeah, I kinda think that's the point - the tier 0.5 is for raiders that can't get together a 40 person raid, but tier 0.5 is not for casual pick-up groups. Running the instances sloppily is for casual players. Running it with precision is for raiders who don't know 40 people. It's a pretty good balance.

And don't forget - your group upgraded their armor with tier 0 items, etc. during your run. The next time you run it, you will run it faster because you have better gear. It's not just learning the dungeon, but upgrading your gear that will get you the speed for tier 0.5. A pick-up group with well-equipped peeps has a shot, even if they don't have every mob memorized.
 
I passed on Arcanist Gloves last night because my Sorcerer's Gloves are almost as good. I'd rather save the dkp for a real upgrade, and get those when no other mage needs them.

But that piece is the exception. Most of the other 0.5 pieces are quite inferior to Tier 1, and it's not like a full Tier 0.5 set is somehow going to address the real reason most people can't or don't raid, so it won't make it any more likely these people will get Tier 1 anytime soon.
 
Well, I'm quoting the NY Times interview where the lead developer said "Mr. Kaplan also said that the game would soon add a new casual-player-friendly armor set obtained through a multipart quest. The first parts can be completed by a solo player, he said, while the later parts will require a group of no more than five people.

I think that was totally misleading. The tier 0.5 armor set "casual-player-friendly"? I don't think so. And when they say that the quest requires a group of no more than five people, they conveniently fail to mention that you need the same 5 people repeatedly.

I agree that with the group I was with I never had any realistic chance to do the quest, and shouldn't have had. But it gave me a good idea of what it COULD have been with a better group and no wipes. I guess I could do the quest in 60 minutes, with the best players of my guild and repeated attempts. (And I've already been to the Baron a dozen times.) I don't see me ever reaching it in 45 minutes. And I'm already playing a lot more than the casual player.

What kind of loot a casual player "deserves" is on a different page. But getting one thing advertised and something completely different delivered does stink.
 
My definition of casual player friendly has to do with methodology. Everything which you need repeated attempts to with the same group of people is hardcore. Everything you can do with a *good* pickup group in one try is casual.

The reason for this definition is that casual players often have problems knowing in advance when real life will allow them to play, thus it is very hard for them to plan repeated attempts with the same group of people (be it 5 for the baron or 40 for MC).

If you say "my guild did it in 2 hours", that isn't a definition of casual at all. Your guild does Onyxia in 30 minutes, and that doesn't exactly make her a casual encounter.
 
I think the term "casual" is an alibi in itself. The game time in any MMRPG isn't calculated in hours (like in almost every other computer game), but in days. Even though Warcraft sold 6 million copies, it is still embodies the delight of a certain type of subculture: the computer gamers. Compared to other kinds of entertainment, 6 million is a weeny quantity.

Therefore, if you ask me, there is no such thing as "casual" in the World of Warcraft. The real casuals will have stopped playing several weeks after they bought the game anyways. Simply because they do not have the time, that is needed for a game like Warcraft - for whatever reasons. They surely had fun running around questing and bashing low-level-critters, but the label "casual" ends, where the labour begins. Every player though, that has one - or more - characters at level 60 is no casual gamer. Maybe he/she wants to make himself/herself believe so, but you will have a minimum of 15 days played until your first toon hits that memorable level. And i doubt the played time will stop ticking then, because there simply is more to see - even at level 60.


You like to display yourself as a casual gamer, Tobold, though not the average joe. On the other hand, you freely admit, that you have done the Baron a dozen times. There is nothing casual at that. Especially since those runs weren't done in 45 minutes either, at least not those some months ago. On top of that you have at least two characters at level 60 and are playing on at least two servers. I have a suggestion for you: Add together the combined playing time of all your toons and you will be surprised about the vast amount, which will most likely not differ by a great margin form what you like to call the average "raider", who focuses on only one character. I'd admitedly would like to know how much time you ended up with.

Did Blizzard design their game to be addictive ? It surely is. And, oh my, they did it cleverly. Warcraft is all about diversification. You can focus on one toon, you can - as leveling is easy compared to other MMRPG's - fool around with a fistful of toons, you can pvp (probably on a specially suited server), you can roleplay (on special servers as well), you can pve, you can concentrate on solo'ing, one-grouping, raiding or earning the bling-bling, tradeskilling is another option or you can simply mix up all of those aspects to your very own gusto. Which you should.

In the end it's all about time. Your time. And - as sad as you personally might be about that - you won't get decked out in purples without having to invest a considerable amount of time. Epic gear is not growing on trees, even the purple world random drops have a ridiculously low drop-chance. Are they a status-symbol ? Yes, they probably are. As is a Mercedes-Benz. Just in a different "world". And - as we all know - Mercedes-Benz' don't grow on trees either. All epics, that are attainable in the game - be it random drops, purchases in the auction house, quest rewards or drops of bossmobs, require you to pay in but one valuta: your time. And a shitload of it.
 
I'd admitedly would like to know how much time you ended up with.

Around 2000 hours. Raslebol has over 40 "days" played, 1000 hours, and the other chars add up another 1000 hours or so.

require you to pay in but one valuta: your time

I have a very different point of view here. I don't see myself paying for virtual status symbols with time. I see myself consuming content to spend time. Spending time is the purpose, not the cost, of entertainment. According to the AC Nielsen Co., the average American watches more than 4 hours of TV each day, or 1500 hours per year. What status symbols does he earn from that? Nothing!

If I complain that "I can't finish this quest series, it is too hard for me", then I don't complain about not getting the status symbol, or the time to reward ratio for getting the status symbol being bad (although it sure is). I'm complaining about getting stuck in the content, and not getting access to further content in the series.

Imagine you are a fan of the TV series Friends. And in one episode you need to press a button on your remote control at the end at exactly the right time. If you succeed, you will be able to see the next episode. If you fail you are forced to see the episode over and over again, until you succeed. Does that sound that good entertainment to you? But this is exactly how the Baron run and raiding works. Raiding is even worse, because every week you have to start over at the first episode again. I don't care how good the reward at the end of the Baron run is, I would just like to be able to finish the whole quest series and consume all of the content.
 
You seem like a thoughtful person to me, Tobold, though - as you put it yourself so fittingly, you can be pretty stubborn at times. So you aren't really comparing TV with an online game, are you ? As you put it correctly, you are the "consumer" when watching TV. You are totally dependant on what they want them to see you, while you are passively sitting on your couch. Doing nothing, but watching. Switching channels at best. And you are hardly ever going to interact with millions of other people sitting on their own couches.

An online game is interactive though. The content might be limited as well, as to what they might want let you to see, but it is you, who actually decides what and more importantly when to do it - or not to do it, by the style of play you chose.

If you want to compare World of Warcraft, you might want to chose a more accurate analogy than TV, and chose games or sports in general instead. Here the same rules apply. And by spending your time, you get better at what you do here. I honestly doubt one can get better at watching TV. You gain, staying with the sportive example, muscles, reflexes, skills and learn how to work as a team. Though you probably won't win the world or UEFA cup the first playing soccer.

Though even by watching TV you might earn something. Some weight or - if you are watching the discovery channel or the news - as a matter of fact knowledge.
 
Around 2000 hours. Raslebol has over 40 "days" played, 1000 hours, and the other chars add up another 1000 hours or so.

That's more than 80 days within a single year then. Not too casual, i'd say. I have less playing time on my, though only character, in a "raiding" guild.
 
Note that I said same group of people. Sure, there were probably many dungeons where my first attempt to go there didn't get to the endboss. But in every case the first time I succeeded was *not* with the *same* people as the bad attempts.

My first group to RFC was a pickup group of 5 shamans during the US beta, totally non-classic group composition, but they were all playing well, we all had the necessary level, and we finished the endboss on the first try. In all other dungeons, when I failed it was usually because I was with some bad pickup group. Next attempt with a good pickup group or a guild group then usually succeeded.

I think a good group of the appropriate level should be able to succeed any challenge. If the challenge is designed in a way that even the best possible group needs to repeat the same dungeon several times, just to perfectly know every step in advance, that doesn't interest me. That's just like a stupid console platformer game, where your skill isn't as important as knowing what is around the next corner.
 
I too have a paladin (lvl 60) and play on the Proudmore server. I played mining/engineering all the way to 60. The explosives helped immensely with leveling to 60, however they don't help much once playing end game content. Currently, I am wondering if I should drop engineering for enchanting so that useless items in dungeouns could be DE'ed. One of the few things that stops me is the Ultrasafe Gadgetzan Transporter. This handy little item makes moving between continents much easier and unless I am on the 4 hour cooldown, then I rarely ever use the boats to transit continents. BTW - Gadgetzan is through gnomish engineering. There are some really fun items that can be created through gnomish engineering. People always find it comical when I shrink some large mob in a dungeoun. However the downside to gnomish engineering is that you have no access to the mining helmet (goblin engineering). That item could make a big difference in mining Arcane Crystals since it is one of two items in the game that can enhance mining (the other being the Advance Mining Enchant to Gloves). So here lies my other quandary of which I'm not sure is even possible. Drop gnomish engineering for goblin engineering to get the helmet (this would give transport to Everlook which isn't very close to Silithus or DM) or just leave well enough alone. Some things to think about as you level your Paladin Miner/Engineer. Oh, yes the enchant to gloves does make a difference in crystal drops.
 
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