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Monday, November 06, 2006
Burning Crusade slow leveling
Sometimes one forgets the difference between a "beta" and a released product. But with the latest patch to the Burning Crusade beta, Blizzard sent me a painful reminder that they are still working on balancing everything out. They "nerfed" leveling in a way which would have had half of their customers coming after them with torches and pitchforks if they did this in the release version. But for the beta one has to expect hard changes like that. What they did was making leveling a lot harder, by upping the xp requirement per level after 60 by about 40%.
So getting from level 60 to 61 used to need 415 kXP, but now needs 580 kXP. I'm level 62, and instead of needing 500 kXP to advance, I now need 700 kXP. How much more effort is that? Well, if you make xp only by killing mobs of your level, without rest bonus, and without quest xp, you now need to kill 400 mobs more *per level*. Obviously that makes the Burning Crusade "longer", without actually adding any new content. I'm not really happy about it.
To use old Everquest terminology, all levels after 60 are now "hell levels". That is if you plot the amount of xp needed per level (195 kXP to 58, 202 kXP to 59, 210 kXP to 60, 580 kXP to 61, 660 kXP to 62, 700 kXP to 63), you immediately see the jarring break in the curve. Now somebody who has been level 60 for months, and is happy about *any* level advancement, will sure be able to live with that. But later, with people reaching level 60 after the expansion comes out, advancing after reaching level 60 will feel like walking through treacle.
8 months ago I wrote a blog entry named Bad design by bad testing, where I said that Blizzard holding a contest where you get a beta tester slot by grinding excessively would lead to the data coming out from the beta test being skewed towards excessive grinding. I hate having been right about that. Somebody not really aware of the nature of the beta testers observed that many of them hit level 67 in a week or two (you can't really advance much after that, all the zones higher than that aren't open yet). And based on that flawed observation, they slowed everybody down. I think Blizzard should tone down the xp per level requirement a bit again. What should not happen is that if you do all the quests of a level, you still haven't got enough xp to level up, and are forced to grind some mobs just for xp.
- posted by Tobold @ 9:05 AM Permanent Link
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Just a question, is there a way to report these observations to Blizzard from within the beta-programme or is Bliz 'observing' the beta like scientists watch labrats in a maze?
Good beta-testers are hard to find. Sure many people want to be in the beta but as you mention that doesn't make them good beta-testers. One example we had in our company: a tester kept reporting about a logo that was 2 pixels lower on one webpage than an other page, but failed to report that the sum of all items in the shoppingcart was $0...
Things like balancing issues are harder to see from a player's point-of-view and much easier from a population scope: a player might think he/she is extremely skilled and the other players aren't, while a population observation might reveal that players carrying object X are gaining XPs faster than any other player. A skilled beta-tester might be able to see such advantage from his/her point of view, most beta-players usually do not.
Good beta-testers are hard to find. Sure many people want to be in the beta but as you mention that doesn't make them good beta-testers. One example we had in our company: a tester kept reporting about a logo that was 2 pixels lower on one webpage than an other page, but failed to report that the sum of all items in the shoppingcart was $0...
Things like balancing issues are harder to see from a player's point-of-view and much easier from a population scope: a player might think he/she is extremely skilled and the other players aren't, while a population observation might reveal that players carrying object X are gaining XPs faster than any other player. A skilled beta-tester might be able to see such advantage from his/her point of view, most beta-players usually do not.
# posted by 
: 6/11/06 10:28
: 6/11/06 10:28
You can sort of see what they are doing though, in order to throughly test the beta, you need players who will a) Play and b) Play hard
As Felsir says, beta testing is not about "ooh, that bit of tree is not right". It is about user acceptance testing, it already "works", but does it work as we want in the long term ? Can we get metrics ?
I would be a useless beta tester, I don't play enough or play hard enough, would just wander about going "oooh clouds, oooh sky".
To a certain extent I am happy that it wil be harder 60-70. My last few levels up to 60 have been fairly easy - I was expecting a far harder time.
As Felsir says, beta testing is not about "ooh, that bit of tree is not right". It is about user acceptance testing, it already "works", but does it work as we want in the long term ? Can we get metrics ?
I would be a useless beta tester, I don't play enough or play hard enough, would just wander about going "oooh clouds, oooh sky".
To a certain extent I am happy that it wil be harder 60-70. My last few levels up to 60 have been fairly easy - I was expecting a far harder time.
# posted by : 6/11/06 11:41
: 6/11/06 11:41
If this is the idea Blizzard has about keeping players interested in the game then I might not even buy the BC. I am a "casual" player and I cannot devote 100 hours a week to the game. Still, I would like to have the feeling of "progressing" in the expansion, not to stay at 60 forever...
# posted by : 6/11/06 12:04
: 6/11/06 12:04
In Blizzard's defense, there seems to be about 100+ quests that you can do at 60-62. Not to mention the excellent Tier 1/2 level drops that come from the Hellfire Citadel. I think they want people to do all the quests and not bypass stuff because they level too fast. I don't forsee levels 60-64ish being that big of a problem. I can't comment beyond that for now.
Someone also reported that exp from mobs in the instances was turned up a bit with the last patch but I don't know if that is true or not.
Someone also reported that exp from mobs in the instances was turned up a bit with the last patch but I don't know if that is true or not.
# posted by : 6/11/06 15:57
: 6/11/06 15:57
Blizzard had to do something to keep people playing for another year and it sure wasn't creating new classes. So instead you get grinding which doesn't bother me that much since more players grinding means more items will be available on the AH. Course for all the players who despise grinding, this will probably be what pushes them over the edge and sends them running full speed for one of the new games being released in 2007; assuming that blizzard doesn't change xp req again.
I have to wonder whether Blizz did this because there weren't enough people starting Dranei or Blood Elf to justify having a lower XP req.
I have to wonder whether Blizz did this because there weren't enough people starting Dranei or Blood Elf to justify having a lower XP req.
Just a question, is there a way to report these observations to Blizzard from within the beta-programme or is Bliz 'observing' the beta like scientists watch labrats in a maze?
There is a bug-reporting and suggestion addon. Funnily it breaks down after every other patch, or they turn it off, and currently you can't send them any comments.
I would be a useless beta tester, I don't play enough or play hard enough, would just wander about going "oooh clouds, oooh sky".
Why would that make you useless? I wandered around in the beta, and one bug I reported was on the missing texture of nagas near Southshore. I'm pretty certain none of the uber-grinders ever even went there, and if he had been there wouldn't have bothered reporting the missing texture. "oooh clouds, oooh sky, but hey, there is a graphics glitch with the clouds crossing that tower" is a valid beta tester report. And you will *love* the sky over Hellfire Peninsula, I promise.
There is a bug-reporting and suggestion addon. Funnily it breaks down after every other patch, or they turn it off, and currently you can't send them any comments.
I would be a useless beta tester, I don't play enough or play hard enough, would just wander about going "oooh clouds, oooh sky".
Why would that make you useless? I wandered around in the beta, and one bug I reported was on the missing texture of nagas near Southshore. I'm pretty certain none of the uber-grinders ever even went there, and if he had been there wouldn't have bothered reporting the missing texture. "oooh clouds, oooh sky, but hey, there is a graphics glitch with the clouds crossing that tower" is a valid beta tester report. And you will *love* the sky over Hellfire Peninsula, I promise.
Some of my guildmates had 67s by the time closed beta was opened up to the rest of us.
I wanted to grind my way to help test some of the high-end dungeons, but after the xp change I decided against it.
I'll continue to help test what I can at whatever level I'm am at the time.
Sad thing is I wanted to pvp but of course, all the pvpers are max level and you don't have a chance against them. So anyone who wants to pvp - instead of enjoying the journey will have to make a mad rush to the destination to have a fighting (pardon the pun) chance.
I wanted to grind my way to help test some of the high-end dungeons, but after the xp change I decided against it.
I'll continue to help test what I can at whatever level I'm am at the time.
Sad thing is I wanted to pvp but of course, all the pvpers are max level and you don't have a chance against them. So anyone who wants to pvp - instead of enjoying the journey will have to make a mad rush to the destination to have a fighting (pardon the pun) chance.
This is why testing with random people without structure is bad. Sony got into the habit because it's much much easier, and each expansion had less and less testing done on it.
The best testing is done when you have a dedicated group of testers, no matter the size, testing specific stuff. It doesn't have to be "kill X mob 20 times, report drop rate" but "go to this area, try this" kind of thing.
The best testing is done when you have a dedicated group of testers, no matter the size, testing specific stuff. It doesn't have to be "kill X mob 20 times, report drop rate" but "go to this area, try this" kind of thing.
# posted by : 6/11/06 19:59
: 6/11/06 19:59
This seems to be an all too common result of beta testing. Developers see players reaching content too quickly, and the response is "oh noes! People are going through content too quickly and will get bored and quit. Up the xp requirement!"
Which of course, results in people getting bored and quitting. One of the worst offenders I can think of is City of Heroes. When I started in the early beta leveling was fast and fun. Shortly thereafter, with the urging of many of the hardcore testers, they just about doubled the xp required to level. Leveling became slow and painful and killed the game for many players since in CoH the ONLY reward is leveling and getting new powers. At least in WoW you have gear to collect.
Back on topic, if they upped the xp requirements while also adding ways to earn increased xp I think that's fine. If they increased the required xp while leaving everything else the same . . . ugh. It's not game breaking, but please, I'd like to level someday too.
Which of course, results in people getting bored and quitting. One of the worst offenders I can think of is City of Heroes. When I started in the early beta leveling was fast and fun. Shortly thereafter, with the urging of many of the hardcore testers, they just about doubled the xp required to level. Leveling became slow and painful and killed the game for many players since in CoH the ONLY reward is leveling and getting new powers. At least in WoW you have gear to collect.
Back on topic, if they upped the xp requirements while also adding ways to earn increased xp I think that's fine. If they increased the required xp while leaving everything else the same . . . ugh. It's not game breaking, but please, I'd like to level someday too.
# posted by : 6/11/06 20:33
: 6/11/06 20:33
I've said from the beginning that I don't care how slow levelling is for my main as long as there are ample quests to hold my interest on the journey.
I did notice one new quest added (the text hadn't been filled out yet) in Hellfire Peninsula when they made the level change. Hopefully more were added other places as well.
I did notice one new quest added (the text hadn't been filled out yet) in Hellfire Peninsula when they made the level change. Hopefully more were added other places as well.
Although I am sure the "look" types of bug are important, I think you really need more in depth play as well and that takes uber-grinders.
If you fix the rendering of a Naga on release day -1 or day +50 it matters not. There is no "creeping death" that afflicts any It system - the sort of bug that on happens 0.01% of the time, doesn't get picked up in testing as it is too small to notice. But 10,000 users and 6 months later it suddenly becomes noticable and very very difficult to unpick the problem.
Like others I am into my questing, so it is good to hear there are plenty more 60+
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If you fix the rendering of a Naga on release day -1 or day +50 it matters not. There is no "creeping death" that afflicts any It system - the sort of bug that on happens 0.01% of the time, doesn't get picked up in testing as it is too small to notice. But 10,000 users and 6 months later it suddenly becomes noticable and very very difficult to unpick the problem.
Like others I am into my questing, so it is good to hear there are plenty more 60+
# posted by : 7/11/06 09:12
: 7/11/06 09:12<< Home
