Friday, February 09, 2007
Reputation and identity
When you start a new character in World of Warcraft on the same account, the game treats that no different than a new character on a different account. Your new character does not share anything with the previous characters, no map information, no flight paths, and especially not the reputation points. That is especially annoying if your first character spent a lot of time to grind reputation with one faction, but the rewards for that are bind-on-pickup crafting recipes for a tradeskill he doesn't have. You can have several characters covering all the tradeskills in the game, but then each of them has grind the same reputation again. That is rather annoying.
It doesn't make sense that your new character doesn't have for example the map information of The Barrens, if your previous character spend many hours there. Obviously you as the player remember where what is in that zone, and uncovering the map is just a needless technicality. For things like gathering keys (or other access rights) and grinding reputation the matter is more ambigous, you can justify either solution. But obviously having to lets say killing a hundred furbolgs again to be allowed to pass the timbermaw tunnel to Winterspring with every character is tedious.
There are a many reputations in World of Warcraft where I never got very far, just to a medium level of friendly or honored. Because the rewards from grinding reputation for a single character, who can only use few of the offered items, and only has use for recipes for a maximum of two tradeskills, is often just not worth the long grind. I'd be more willing to take all the effort to get a reputation up to revered if I could use that reputation for all of my characters on that account and server. I can see that Blizzard can't make the reputation reward items bind-on-equip, because otherwise only one guy on the server would need to grind the reputation and then sell the rewards on the auction house. But in my opinion a possibility to share the reputation between the characters on the same account would be much more attractive. Because even if I change from one character to the next, I still consider myself as the same person, and can't see why suddenly the timbermaw don't like me any more after me having done so much to help them.
If you think about it, it is a question of identity. The game assumes a completely different identity for a new character. But due to account sharing being forbidden by the EULA, Blizzard must obviously also assume that behind every new character on the same account there is the same player controlling it. Having the characters not share anything is a game design choice.
Other games handle that differently. For example Everquest 2 at least has shared bank slots across the characters of the same account. In Final Fantasy XI you have the possibility to switch between classes on the same character; that allows you to play different classes but keep whatever reputation, keys, quest progress or map information you have gathered. In the (single-player) Pokemon RPG games on the Gameboy your identity was that of a trainer, who collected badges (roughly equivalent to reputation), while controlling a range of pokemons that had different levels and combat abilities (your combat identities).
The Pokemon example is interesting, because it could be a better choice for MMO games. The player represents a master identity, which controls all the sub-identities of characters on the same account. Some game aspects are tied to the master identity, for example map information, access rights, or reputation. Other game aspects are tied to the individual characters, like skills, abilities, and anything else tied to the specific character's class. You aren't playing new characters because you want to forget parts of the game, you play new characters because different classes play in different ways. Pokemon Online anyone? (The real Pokemon Online actually exists as a low-budget 2D MMO).
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Tabula Rasa is supposedly going to have an interesting approach to multiple characters, in that you can clone your character at certain points. From that point the clone can develop in a different path from the original. So different characters to not have to start from scratch every time.
As for other types of sharing, I do like the City of Villains/Heroes chat system. You have global chat channels that are available across all servers and each account has a global chat identitiy, separate from the names of the different characters. So there is no need to try to keep track of all the names that friends may have on their alts or no need to try to name all your alts so that people can easier recognize you. And you can chat without being on the same server.
SOE also has a global cross-server, cross-game chat system, but that is still an identity per character rather than an account (at least last time I checked).
As for other types of sharing, I do like the City of Villains/Heroes chat system. You have global chat channels that are available across all servers and each account has a global chat identitiy, separate from the names of the different characters. So there is no need to try to keep track of all the names that friends may have on their alts or no need to try to name all your alts so that people can easier recognize you. And you can chat without being on the same server.
SOE also has a global cross-server, cross-game chat system, but that is still an identity per character rather than an account (at least last time I checked).
You bring up a good point about identity. I also think this ties in directly to the world<----->game question. WOW leans more toward the “game” side of the scale, making the decision to not share bank slots, maps or faction a very odd choice. It seems to me that in that respect Blizzard is confusing “game” with “world”. Any game element in WOW that requires a “work-around” to function brings the game down a notch for me. Example: Using your wife’s account to transfer gold or items across factions. Blizzard knows about this, and allows it, but come on! If we are all doing it anyway, why not make it easier for us to do, especially if it does not break game cohesion. In these little ways WOW shows it has a confusion of identity: Is it a game, or is it a world?
First, factions are one of the big timesinks in WoW--blizzard already made it easier with higher rep rewards for BC, they're not about to make it easier on us again. Making you grind for rep is one of the ways they keep you playing (and paying) for a loooooong time.
Second, everything in the game world is set up to be from the point of view of your character, not the player. There is no 'player', you are the character. NoobOrcWarrior has never been to the barrens before, so why would his map be complete? He's never even met the Timbermaw Furbolg, so why would he be exalted with them?
I agree its annoying and slows down gameplay, but it would make many aspects of WoW trivial if these things were shared between characters. In some cases, it would even be detrimental. Scryer/Aldor rep? Desolace centaur reps? Goblin/Bloodsail rep? Etc.
Second, everything in the game world is set up to be from the point of view of your character, not the player. There is no 'player', you are the character. NoobOrcWarrior has never been to the barrens before, so why would his map be complete? He's never even met the Timbermaw Furbolg, so why would he be exalted with them?
I agree its annoying and slows down gameplay, but it would make many aspects of WoW trivial if these things were shared between characters. In some cases, it would even be detrimental. Scryer/Aldor rep? Desolace centaur reps? Goblin/Bloodsail rep? Etc.
Not a bad idea. I imagine...
AT WORST: You'd "Shrink the World" - kind of like the way Outland has shrunk WoW.
AT BEST: It would make rolling new characters and classes a lot more fun.
AT WORST: You'd "Shrink the World" - kind of like the way Outland has shrunk WoW.
AT BEST: It would make rolling new characters and classes a lot more fun.
Why would a level 3 Troll have the same reputation as a 70 Orc in a role playing game?
I can see letting you make "related" characters of the same race who are "family" and getting a rep buff that way... but frankly it would make more sense to have a "guild" rep than an account rep.
It's a role playing game. *shrug*
I can see letting you make "related" characters of the same race who are "family" and getting a rep buff that way... but frankly it would make more sense to have a "guild" rep than an account rep.
It's a role playing game. *shrug*
The same argument - why am I exalted with Cenarion Circle, but only friendly with Cenarion Expedition? Don't those guys talk to each other?
Azeroth reputation is of no use in Outlands, which I think is a real shame. There is no point grinding Azeroth rep any more, as the rewards are pretty much junk now.
As for Timbermaw rep - once you have done it once, you really don't want to do it again. Simply take all your gear off and run through the tunnels, die a few times, and get through to Moonglade and Winterspring that way, thus saving hours of pointless grind.
Azeroth reputation is of no use in Outlands, which I think is a real shame. There is no point grinding Azeroth rep any more, as the rewards are pretty much junk now.
As for Timbermaw rep - once you have done it once, you really don't want to do it again. Simply take all your gear off and run through the tunnels, die a few times, and get through to Moonglade and Winterspring that way, thus saving hours of pointless grind.
I like to think of my characters as all being different members of the same family. They each have a unique name, but there is also an element of the name common to all. I think that this approach actually would work well with reputation. In real life, how we behave not only affects our own reputation, but also that of our family.
As for different races being in the same family... I look at this as all being members of an extended family through adoption and marriage. The patriarch (my main) of my family is a tauren, but most of the members (the alts) are forsaken, along with the odd orc. There is a love/hate relationship going on there. My bank alt, I consider as a squire to the patriarch (a warrior). What is a squire's role? To arrange logistics and carry the warrior's armor, etc. I've created my own little lore, to make the game more interesting.
Your ideas about reputation would work well with this approach.
As for different races being in the same family... I look at this as all being members of an extended family through adoption and marriage. The patriarch (my main) of my family is a tauren, but most of the members (the alts) are forsaken, along with the odd orc. There is a love/hate relationship going on there. My bank alt, I consider as a squire to the patriarch (a warrior). What is a squire's role? To arrange logistics and carry the warrior's armor, etc. I've created my own little lore, to make the game more interesting.
Your ideas about reputation would work well with this approach.
People already complain that there is no depth to the tradeskills. The depth that there is principally comes from the rep grind to get the faction recipes. If a person could grind to exalted with a bunch of factions then let their alts reap the benefits of this there would be a lot more crafters with all the faction recipes out there. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is open to debate.
A similar argument could be made that if your character kills 100 mugwumps then they have proven their willingness and killing the 1,000,000 mugwumps required to get to Exalted is just meaningless repetition.
If the 'family' of characters was to be tightly integrated a feature I'd like to see would be that ignores/friends would be by account not by character.
A similar argument could be made that if your character kills 100 mugwumps then they have proven their willingness and killing the 1,000,000 mugwumps required to get to Exalted is just meaningless repetition.
If the 'family' of characters was to be tightly integrated a feature I'd like to see would be that ignores/friends would be by account not by character.
Excellent blog post!
The sticking point, to me, is the clash of reputation rewards with primary profession restrictions. So if my tailor grinds to exalted or revered with faction X, he gains access to the tailoring patterns ... and several useless BOP leatherworking patterns, blacksmithing patterns, etc...
Not sure what the solution is, but I am pretty sure that I won't get all of my toons over all primary professions all to level 70 and all to the highest rep level will all factions.
But then again, maybe that's the point on a MMO: Forced interdependence.
A humorous corollary to the rep/faction discussion is a discrepancy I've mentioned before:
My 43 Undead Priest rolled right after the 2.0.1 patch (who has never set foot in Silvermoon City) has a lot of accumulated rep with Silvermoon City, most of which was earned before the BC was even released, and mostly though generic "Horde faction" rep rewards rather than the few quests outside of the BE areas that award "Silvermoon City" rep.
By contrast, my 62 Undead Warrior was mostly sitting idle during the period from the 2.0.1 release up to the BC release, and has very little rep with Silvermoon City. He 'lost out' on the Horde faction rep that he could have gained with Silvermoon City. But since an Undead would probably look quite stupid upon an Epic Peacock mount, I'm not really too bent out of shape over it.
---
An aside:
I must confess having seen a most odd thing: A BE pally upon a peacock mount.
Who would do that?!
The sticking point, to me, is the clash of reputation rewards with primary profession restrictions. So if my tailor grinds to exalted or revered with faction X, he gains access to the tailoring patterns ... and several useless BOP leatherworking patterns, blacksmithing patterns, etc...
Not sure what the solution is, but I am pretty sure that I won't get all of my toons over all primary professions all to level 70 and all to the highest rep level will all factions.
But then again, maybe that's the point on a MMO: Forced interdependence.
A humorous corollary to the rep/faction discussion is a discrepancy I've mentioned before:
My 43 Undead Priest rolled right after the 2.0.1 patch (who has never set foot in Silvermoon City) has a lot of accumulated rep with Silvermoon City, most of which was earned before the BC was even released, and mostly though generic "Horde faction" rep rewards rather than the few quests outside of the BE areas that award "Silvermoon City" rep.
By contrast, my 62 Undead Warrior was mostly sitting idle during the period from the 2.0.1 release up to the BC release, and has very little rep with Silvermoon City. He 'lost out' on the Horde faction rep that he could have gained with Silvermoon City. But since an Undead would probably look quite stupid upon an Epic Peacock mount, I'm not really too bent out of shape over it.
---
An aside:
I must confess having seen a most odd thing: A BE pally upon a peacock mount.
Who would do that?!
I agree with an above poster: "it's a role playing game"
A new character is a different person to tall the npcs, they are not related, they are not you.
To do it any other way wouldn't make sense. Maybe in some completely different sort of game.
The one way that would make sense from an RPG perspective is perhaps if you can "vouch" for the other character, this could mean several things: you lose most of your rep but the other character gets half,or the other character has to grind up in so much time, or the first character loses rep, etc.
Also as another poster pointed out, this would completely devalue tradeskills. Since far more people would have the rare recipes required - and mean casual non-raiders would have nothing to show for their grinding efforts, since the only rare recipes left would be rare drops.
A new character is a different person to tall the npcs, they are not related, they are not you.
To do it any other way wouldn't make sense. Maybe in some completely different sort of game.
The one way that would make sense from an RPG perspective is perhaps if you can "vouch" for the other character, this could mean several things: you lose most of your rep but the other character gets half,or the other character has to grind up in so much time, or the first character loses rep, etc.
Also as another poster pointed out, this would completely devalue tradeskills. Since far more people would have the rare recipes required - and mean casual non-raiders would have nothing to show for their grinding efforts, since the only rare recipes left would be rare drops.
To me, this suggestion makes no sense. Yes, it would make the game easier, but as others have said, it would devalue the rewards of reputation tremendously -- especially as regards to tradeskills. Lots of things would make the game easier aren't good things.
I think of it this way: reputation is just another measure of character progression. It is akin to XP, loot, skills, etc. It is just much less directly affecting your character's 'power', but the idea is the same. Gaining reputation advances the character. To propose that reputation should be shared only differs in magnitude from suggesting any other character progression should be shared.
If it is "you" playing the game, and all the reputation earned should be transferable, then I don't see why you'd draw a logical line there. It's all "your" xp, so why can't that transfer? It's all "your" gear, so why not be able to freely move Soulbound items? It's all "your" honor, etc....
No, the only logical approach -- and especially the only one that supports even the thin veneer of roleplaying in the game -- is that it is the character who is achieving these things. Not the player.
Grinding reputation sucks, but I don't think it's a decent answer to just have the reputation transfer to characters. The furbolgs may love Tobold, but why do they give a fig about Biff the orc?
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I think of it this way: reputation is just another measure of character progression. It is akin to XP, loot, skills, etc. It is just much less directly affecting your character's 'power', but the idea is the same. Gaining reputation advances the character. To propose that reputation should be shared only differs in magnitude from suggesting any other character progression should be shared.
If it is "you" playing the game, and all the reputation earned should be transferable, then I don't see why you'd draw a logical line there. It's all "your" xp, so why can't that transfer? It's all "your" gear, so why not be able to freely move Soulbound items? It's all "your" honor, etc....
No, the only logical approach -- and especially the only one that supports even the thin veneer of roleplaying in the game -- is that it is the character who is achieving these things. Not the player.
Grinding reputation sucks, but I don't think it's a decent answer to just have the reputation transfer to characters. The furbolgs may love Tobold, but why do they give a fig about Biff the orc?
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