Tobold's Blog
Tuesday, March 20, 2007
 
Character stats in the Burning Crusade

By introducing jewelcrafting and items with sockets, the Burning Crusade for the first time made it possible to customize items. You yourself can decide whether as a warrior you prefer strength, stamina, crit or defense rating. As a spell caster, you can choose between intelligence, spirit, spell critical rating, added spell damage (or healing) or spell penetration. But while you can choose what to take, you have less choice of how much of it you get. There are three levels of gems, very cheap from vendors, cheap common gems from jewelcrafters, and rare expensive gems, also from jewelcrafters. While you can thus choose your price level, the relative ratio between the stats remains fixed.

For example Blizzard considers 1 intellect to be worth the same as 1 spirit, strength, or agility. The vendor gems give you +4 to one stat, the common JC gems +6, and the rare gems +8. But stamina you get +6, +9, or +12, in every case 50% more than the other stats. Taking the middle level of common jewelcrafter gems, this is the relative scale of what you can get for the same price:But what if the players don't value the stats in the same way? As a jewelcrafter I can tell you that not all gems sell equally well. That is because not all stats are equally useful, both in respect to how many differenct classes and builds can use the stat, and in respect to how much quantity of that stat you need to make a difference.

The prime example here is spirit, compared with lets say intellect and stamina. 8 out of 9 classes have only very limited use for spirit, and +6 on any other stat is significantly better than +6 spirit. And if stamina is one of the prime stats of your class or build, of course +9 stamina is far, far superior to +6 spirit. The only class that can make some use out of spirit is the priest, and even as a holy priest with a build that maximizes the impact of spirit, I'm hard pressed to declare +6 spirit to be better than +6 intellect, +9 stamina, or +13 to healing. That means that when I put +spirit gems on the auction house, I'm nearly certain not to sell them, even at a discounted rate.

Why should you care if you aren't a jewelcrafter? Because the same principle applies to the looted items without sockets. The same item with an "of the eagle" attribute, giving +stamina and +intellect, sells a lot better than if it was "of the whale", giving +stamina and +spirit, because spirit is valued less by players than intellect is. In fact a green "of the whale" item you might as well vendor, you'll only lose your auction house fee if you put it up. Which is obviously a fault in the game design, as Blizzard obviously considers the different "of the animal" items to be equally valuable, when for the players they aren't.

And curiously the relative scale of Blizzards evaluation of stats has changed with the Burning Crusade. If you compare items pre-BC and post-BC, it becomes immediately obvious that there is much more bonus to spell damage, spell healing, and feral attack power around than before. Of course all the stats went up from pre-BC to now, but for the same item level these stats increased by a higher percentage than others.

Changes in how much stats items give are not neutral towards class balance. Some classes are a lot more reliant on stats for effectiveness than other classes are. For example the basic stats of int, str, sta, spi and agi have a large effect on how much damage a melee fighter deals, but no effect whatsoever on spell damage or healing, or spell critical rating or penetration. Which is probably why Blizzard increased the +healing and +spell damage stats on the Burning Crusade items.

The biggest change in stats is that to stamina, which used to be given out in the same quantities as other stats, but now regularly appears in much larger numbers, about 50% more than the other basic stats. That had a profound impact on the relative levels of health points, damage done, and healing done, with significant consequences especially for PvP. It is easy to see how for example a warlock, who can convert stamina into mana, profits much more from this move than a mage, who cannot.

I think Blizzard should review the balance between stats, and their effects on the balance between classes. Ideally items of the same level, but with different combinations of stats should be balanced until they are considered to be worth the same thing by the player economy. This undoubtedly would mean increasing the spirit bonus that items give, but also balance some other stats against each other.
Comments:
Spirit is also useful for restoration druids with talents such as Intensity, Living Spirit and Tree of Life. Also, patch 2.0 increased the mana regen druids get from spirit.

Still, I agree with the points you made in your post.
 
I play an Affliction Warlock, but never PvP. All those items with huge amounts of stamina (and no other stat) are of no use to me. Spell damage and stamina is what matters; my reasoning being that when I'm in a party, my main contribution is going to be DPS and crowd control.

No point having a ton of stamina and not being able to damage things effectively. Besides, once the tank has gone down, my tissue-thin cloth isn't going to keep me alive very long, whether I have 9000 hp or 14000 hp.

The fact that people are only too ready to post the Damage Meter results after every instance means that by default I MUST keep my DPS as high as possible, or risk being considered a light-weight.
 
Stats do need to get looked at, there is no doubt but it would be nice if they looked at some of the equipment drops and quest reward items as well.

The vast majority of quest reward and instance boss drops seem to be more focused around caster's than anyone else. With very little equipment drops for the Hunter/DPS classes and now most mail seems to be more for shamans than anyone else. I don't know how many times I've seen drops in instances that just gets DE'd b/c we didn't have a mage/priest/paly/or druid in the grp that needed it.

Don't get me wrong, I've geared up nicely in BC but I've had far less to choose from than most classes. Plus running instances like Steam Vaults 10+ times hopeing to see 1 Beast Lord piece drop, which has a 7% drop rate on normal difficulty and only 17% on heroic, it's more like a waste of time.

I can understand the Hunter RAP nerf pre-BC, Blizz wants hunters to choose between sustained DPS and crit %. So to included yet another class in the constant respecing, armor swapping, PVE spec during the week Raid spec on weekends campaign. Just have to live with it for now :)
 
Tobold, there are 5 types of gems. you forgot to mention Meta Gems (some available for purchase, most only manufacturable by Juwelcrafters with the help of Alchemists).

Finally there are epic stones which you can find in heroic mode dungeons for example. Those have better stats even and sometimes have stats you won't find on other gems.
 
They've also added new suffixes in the expansion. Instead of ".. of the generic animal" there's "of the beast" for +Strength, Agility, and Stam. "Of the Invoker" for +Intellect, spell damage/healing, and spell crit rating...

I think there are about 8 or so new suffixes, and they all seem to be halfway decent at least... you know, as opposed to of the whale.
 
As a mage of the invoker gear is freaking amazing. Green items have never been this good. I actually have passed up equally leveled blue items because invoker gear is better for my mage. 41/20 is my spec, I hope to get many ignites to increase my dps. I'm running very close to 30% crit rate. I have 5 green "of the invoker" items and if I swap them out and use blue dungeon drops my crit goes down to 24%, but I get about 1k more stamina. As a mage 6% crit trumps 1k stamina. I have 5600 health, when I group with mages almost all of them have close to 7k health, some with 8k health, but I still top the damage meter, and thats what a mage is all about, pewpew.

As far as the gems go, I always felt gems should be like an added bonus to the item. Every item with gem slots has lousy stats otherwise, you need to equip gems to get these items up to par with regular non-socketed items. Why spend the money or the time, why not just take the regular items? I guess blizzard is going to fix this in the future, then maybe i'll roll on socketed items.
 
@Crazyflanger: I dumped a 'blue with sockets' for a green drop that had way better stats. Said blue is often selling on the AH for 80 gold or so. Greens similar to the one I found going for maybe 8 gold.
I think people would rather wear a blue item than a green, even though it gimps their stats.
 
My guild now avoids the animal bosses in Kara out of dread we'll end up with a purple Whale item...

Just a side track on one of your last points - the +damage/healing is really out of line if you compare plate/mail to cloth. It doesn't scale evenly, and thus a cloth piece (used, in this case, from a healing perspective), has less than the same piece, even quested, in plate. Thus the rise and dominance of Healadins. It's funny that our holy spec'ed paladins love me along, as my shadow priest heals give them mana to heal the rest of the group.
 
Personally, the irony of plate-wearers main-healing is painful.
I wonder if that's what those Hordies who power-leveled BE pallies to 70 had in mind...?
(And I'm thankful that my last pally was in Diablo 2...)

RE: Gear observations...
My Horde Warrior got a quest reward helm, the wolf one from Terokkar, and later another helm quest reward with three sockets. I thought, "Cool, an upgrade!" But after trolling the AH awhile, it turned out that I would spend about 10 gold on jewels and end up with about the same stats. So yeah, you have to really measure the gear rewards. "Blue" or "socketed" does not necessarily equal "better" or "upgrade".
And so far, having finished nearly all quests in HP, Zangarmarsh, and Terokkar, I have to agree with Kinless's blog about the plate rewards: Outland is Pally-land for quest rewards and mob drops I've seen (outside of instances anyway).
 
@doeg,

I don't feel your pain, only because I leveled a 70 pally. I found myself like "wtf" when I would get quest rewards. This was due to large amounts of plate rewards had +spell dmg/healing or plate had some +int on it. I can only remember a handfull of quests that dropped warrior type plate. I know because I was paying attention as I wanted to be a tank-a-din due to the lack of tanks on my server.

My reaction of "wtf" was probably due to pre-expansion almost all drops/rewards were for tanks. Unless it was a set, there were very few plate items w/ heals or int, just forget about damage.

At level 65 I specced holy again to take advantage of all the gear I was getting, I never looked back.
 
I'm curious about the spirit comments -- I recently returned to WoW and rolled a Dranei Shaman, who is 28. I've been emphasizing spirit since it adds to both mana and hitpoint regen, and she does a mix of nuking and meleeing. Why is it considered less useful then the other (non sta) stats?
 
Because of the mp/5 rule mostly. I know I'm feelign the spirit loss currently, as most BC gear seems to have little SPI, as my mp/5 is low compared to my other stats. I have 500+ int, 400+ sta, and 200 spi, on my priest. Ideally, I could find more. However, with stuff that hits so hard, giving up sta is a hard hit.

Also, I don't know how shammies work, but unless you run Holy on a priest, and get the +damage based on spirit talent, you can probably get the same milage out of working to keep yourself Spirit Tap'ed permanantly.
 
Although I do agree with what you say, and some stats are more used than others, upgrading +Spirit (and other less commonly used) gear (and jewels) will probably just have every person that doesn't use that particular stat whining for a nerf.

Lets face it: buffing a stat or class because no one uses/plays it will no doubt achieve the desired effect, but you will ruin the game's precarious balance, and worse yet, the second you change it back you get the problem you started with.

Say you make +6 spirit jewels into +12 spirit jewels, and everyone will switch to spirit. Make them into +8, and all the people that have better use of other stats will whine and whine and whine until Blizzard breaks and gives them what they want, restarting the whole process.

Now, I'm not saying I have a better idea, but simply buffing +[insert 'rarely' used stat here] items won't cut it, I'm afraid.

Oh, and @loredena; right now, as you're soloing, Spirit is pretty nice. It's just that most of the time, in instances, anything that enhances damage/healing/survivability > time between pots, as that's what Spirit boils down to.
Downtime doesn't matter, any party that doesn't have Leeroy Jenkins in it will wait for you either way, and Shammies aren't exactly supposed to take lots of beatings (although, when played correctly, especially when Resto specced, they can take quite a beating), so that +hp recovery is nigh useless too. So all you'll get from spirit is +mp recovery, which is, albeit important, not as important as mana efficiency/survivability.
 
Good point. If I could get a +12 spirit gem as easily as I can get a +6 int one, I probably would, at this point. There might be a +int/spir gem, but I've not seen it yet. I know that without fail I can expect to get tons of +int stuff, or can get a +30 int buff easily to a weapon, but nothing else.
 
The second post above - Anonymous said...
"No point having a ton of stamina and not being able to damage things effectively."
This is incorrect. The use of life tap means that stamina = mana to the ratio of almost 3 to 1 depending on gear and talents. Therefore a large stamina pool is extremely important to either PVP or PVE locks regardless of their build.
 
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