Thursday, May 10, 2007
LotRO Journal - 10-May-2007
Login issues apparently resolved for the moment, I was able to play LotRO again. I did some more mining with my guardian, and got my metalsmithing up to master artisan. So I was able to check what rare monster part I need to make critical success bronze armor. It turned out that this was "clean barghest tails", something that drops from barghests, a kind of undead dog in the Barrow Downs, close to Bree. As the dogs are level 14 to 16, and my guardian is level 13, I switched to my level 18 minstrel instead.
First I went to Bree and grabbed all the quests I could find, several of which where for the the Barrow Downs. Then I walked over to the Barrow Downs and found it choc full with other players. There were more other players than mobs around, which made hunting there rather difficult. Especially stupid was an escort quest, which takes quite a long time, and other players can't start it before the previous escort finishes. So the spot where the hobbit lady to be escorted spawns was camped by several groups of players. I joined a group, and in spite of dying once on the escort managed to finish the quest. That also finished another quest, to kill wights. A nice quest where a ghost was giving you directions to a barrow I was also able to finish. But in all that I only got one clean barghest tail, because it was so difficult to find a dog that wasn't tagged by other players already.
So I went back to Bree instead, handed in the quests, and made level 19 in the process. There is one significant difference between WoW and LotRO, and that is the importance of quests. In WoW doing a quest gives you about the same number of xp as you get by killing the monsters during the quest. In LotRO the quests give more xp and killing monsters gives less xp, and you usually need to kill less mobs to finish a quest than in WoW. "Grinding" mobs in LotRO without a quest gives very little xp, and isn't recommended. Interesting concept, as long as there are enough quests for your level. But I hear that at the higher levels quests are currently thin on the ground, which is obviously problematic. And the higher you get, the more quests are group quests, making it harder (but not impossible) to solo your way to the top.
After this adventure I did some more farming. Due to the farming nerf the yield of seeds has been slashed, but as the prices for the other ingredients and the vendor prices for pipe-weed are unchanged, it is still profitable to farm with the seeds you have in stock. I had 250 seeds in my bags, and kept farming until they were gone, getting my money back up to 3.5 gold. So now I'm out of seeds and have to wait for the June patch to fix the farming system.
Somebody from my guild is a scholar, and scholars can make dyes. Now my miner had lots of copper salts from mining copper, and it turned out that these are needed to make olive green dye. So I send the scholar the copper salts, and got some dye as thanks. I used them on my minstrel, who was wearing mostly green armor, but had a cloak and leggings that didn't fit in color. It turns out that with dye you can change the color of any visible item, which is very cool. Even quest rewards and loot drops can be dyed, and be made to fit in color with your other gear. This is something that is very much missing in WoW, where by choosing the gear with the best stats you often ended up running around dressed like a clown. I always wondered how much people were after tier whatever sets in WoW just for the fact that the sets fit together in style and color. LotRO shows how easy it is to just apply a die and change the texture color of an item.
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Tobold, I have been discussing with another blogger how LotRO has a 'warmer' feel to it than WoW...do you feel that when you are playing? I think it comes down to if the LotR is a story you know or not...am back rereading the Hobbit & can say it's making my life as a Hobbit Burglar that much more entertaining!
Lol Tobold that Lalia quest has turned into complete farce on my server (Evernight). It is like a junior football match with a huge melee of players following Lalia around and nobody knows who has actually tagged the girl. Following that quest my dwarf Throg fled Bree-land for the less crowded regions of the lone lands. Unfortunately while there are fewer players in the lone lands the spawn rate of mobs is even lower still and quests like "kill ten wargs" turn into a frustrating exercise in spawn camping.
Tobold, there's one thing that needs to be mentioned.
I hear it time and time again that in LotRO you gain significantly more experience for quests than you get for kills (and that it is not recommended to simply grind mobs for xp).
However, as of levels 30-33 (where I'm actually now) this is definitely not true. It might not have been true even before that, I just didn't pay special attention.
As for example, you get quest to kill 20 wargs in North Downs... Each warg kill that is at-level or up to two levels lower (i.e. cons as white or dark blue as opposed to light blue or green) is worth 100+ xp. Means that you get 2000+ xp for just killing the said 20 wargs. And you'd get maybe ~3000 xp for completing the actual quest. That's without the rested bonus and in situation where each kill is guaranteed to advance the quest (as opposed to having to collect some drops for example).
Maybe it changes at higher levels. But I doubt it.
As a side point, if vast majority of xp comes from completing quests, then there is a problem where helping someone to do quest you already finished/don't have yet is completely and utterly pointless in terms of advancing your character -- which seems to be a current problem of LotRO in the area of chapter quests and instances (my experience goes up to and including Angamaur instance levels ~ 33 character lvl).
I hear it time and time again that in LotRO you gain significantly more experience for quests than you get for kills (and that it is not recommended to simply grind mobs for xp).
However, as of levels 30-33 (where I'm actually now) this is definitely not true. It might not have been true even before that, I just didn't pay special attention.
As for example, you get quest to kill 20 wargs in North Downs... Each warg kill that is at-level or up to two levels lower (i.e. cons as white or dark blue as opposed to light blue or green) is worth 100+ xp. Means that you get 2000+ xp for just killing the said 20 wargs. And you'd get maybe ~3000 xp for completing the actual quest. That's without the rested bonus and in situation where each kill is guaranteed to advance the quest (as opposed to having to collect some drops for example).
Maybe it changes at higher levels. But I doubt it.
As a side point, if vast majority of xp comes from completing quests, then there is a problem where helping someone to do quest you already finished/don't have yet is completely and utterly pointless in terms of advancing your character -- which seems to be a current problem of LotRO in the area of chapter quests and instances (my experience goes up to and including Angamaur instance levels ~ 33 character lvl).
Another post about xp: My level 12 loremaster gets 50 xp for every at-level kill, more for yellow mobs. If quests at that level give 650-700 xp and you have to kill 10-12 mobs to complete them, then the xp from mob kills is only slightly lower. If you're like me and rotating 3 characters, then the rested xp bonus makes it more efficient to grind mobs. The difference is that mobs of lower level than you (light blue or green) give significantly less experience than they would in WoW.
So if you focus on mobs at your level, then grinding isn't particularly inefficient.
So if you focus on mobs at your level, then grinding isn't particularly inefficient.
In WoW doing a quest gives you about the same number of xp as you get by killing the monsters during the quest. In LotRO the quests give more xp and killing monsters gives less xp, and you usually need to kill less mobs to finish a quest than in WoW. "Grinding" mobs in LotRO without a quest gives very little xp, and isn't recommended.
That was exactly how I felt during the beta, killing the pigs and bandits. I attempted to kill more pigs than I needed, but I was getting so little xp/kill that it just wasn't worth it, even though the Pigs were my level. Likewise prior to getting the "Kill X Bandits" quest I killed a couple of Bandits (while looking for Pigs) but I never felt compelled to grind on them.
That was exactly how I felt during the beta, killing the pigs and bandits. I attempted to kill more pigs than I needed, but I was getting so little xp/kill that it just wasn't worth it, even though the Pigs were my level. Likewise prior to getting the "Kill X Bandits" quest I killed a couple of Bandits (while looking for Pigs) but I never felt compelled to grind on them.
Even on US servers when the level cap was 15 and no one was in the Barrens but me I only got about 1 clean barghest tail per hour. Which was not bad since I could sell them for 30-40 silver. now they sell for about 10. I spent a lot of time there since I was trying to upgrade all my armor to the critical success armor.
I also found grinding on same level or above mobs to give pretty decent xp over time, compared to below level mobs which give awful xp. But being a guardian it seems grinding on mobs above my level is much easier than on my minstrel. My hunter can to a certian extent, but unlike the guardian cannot deal with adds.
I also found grinding on same level or above mobs to give pretty decent xp over time, compared to below level mobs which give awful xp. But being a guardian it seems grinding on mobs above my level is much easier than on my minstrel. My hunter can to a certian extent, but unlike the guardian cannot deal with adds.
I've tried both a little bit of grinding and questing and I must say from a "feel" standpoint it feels like quests are much more rewarding for leveling up. I remember waiting for friends to log on killing mobs and gaining a few bubbles (or bars) then after them arriving completeing a few quests in less time then i spent grinding and for far more xp.
Also I noticed that xp for teaming isn't quite as bad as wow either. It doesn't seem to half your xp like wow which I always thought was lame. I think xp should be a little more than half for each player when teamed since in ideal situations you aren't killing twice as fast just cause you have two players (though questing is probably faster). It seems just from again "feel" of it that if I was getting 100xp on a mob solo that I would get 75 or so on a team of two, much nicer than only 50.
Other than that I love the color dye option as well, a great idea to allow us to customize our looks.
Also I noticed that xp for teaming isn't quite as bad as wow either. It doesn't seem to half your xp like wow which I always thought was lame. I think xp should be a little more than half for each player when teamed since in ideal situations you aren't killing twice as fast just cause you have two players (though questing is probably faster). It seems just from again "feel" of it that if I was getting 100xp on a mob solo that I would get 75 or so on a team of two, much nicer than only 50.
Other than that I love the color dye option as well, a great idea to allow us to customize our looks.
Actually, I've gone from lvl 23-25 without completing a single quest. I've been farming Ash and Yew and killing mobs for titles. I've also been helping my son and brother advance their characters to my level. At one point when I hit lvl 25 I was almost annoyed at how EASY it was to gain levels without doing any questing! So working on titles and resource gathering will get you up there, quests aren't even mandatory.
The notion of the Late Third Age Barrow Downs being "crowded" with anything other than barrows and wights makes my brain hurt. ;D
I wonder if you are just getting a lot of quests and completing them, and relating that to the number of mob's you kill, thus thinking questing is > grinding. In the earlier levels, I can see this happening. We'll see if your opinion changes when you level up a little more.
My observation is probably due to the fact that I get too many quests and am always behind in doing them. As I try to do the lowest level quests first, and in LotRO the xp you get for killing mobs lower level than you is strongly reduced, I always get more xp for the quest than for the mobs.
Also there are lots of quests where you don't need to kill anything, or just very little. I received over 1,500 xp yesterday for a quest to kill one signature mob.
Also there are lots of quests where you don't need to kill anything, or just very little. I received over 1,500 xp yesterday for a quest to kill one signature mob.
Long time reader, first time poster, non-LotRO online player, LotRO considerer.
I assume I am not understanding this correctly - surely a quest where you kill x foozles is more profitable than killing x foozles due to the quest xp? I am basing this on WoW obviously ...
I would that the said foozle would give 10xp for instance each time and the quest bonus would be 100xp for instance, resulting in a 200xp gain for a 10 foozle quest compared to 100xp.
The comments read like killing a foozle gives you 1xp outside of a quest and 10xp inside a quest - say it ain't so!?
Not that I am a grinder in WoW, I certainly went via quests for maximum xp, but of course I took down mobs not related to my quest on occasion, seems surprising that this would be of next to no benefit - to me the extra mobs are semi-bonus content, if the reward is pretty much nothing, they may as well not be there, you just have to avoid them which is a timesink.
I assume I am not understanding this correctly - surely a quest where you kill x foozles is more profitable than killing x foozles due to the quest xp? I am basing this on WoW obviously ...
I would that the said foozle would give 10xp for instance each time and the quest bonus would be 100xp for instance, resulting in a 200xp gain for a 10 foozle quest compared to 100xp.
The comments read like killing a foozle gives you 1xp outside of a quest and 10xp inside a quest - say it ain't so!?
Not that I am a grinder in WoW, I certainly went via quests for maximum xp, but of course I took down mobs not related to my quest on occasion, seems surprising that this would be of next to no benefit - to me the extra mobs are semi-bonus content, if the reward is pretty much nothing, they may as well not be there, you just have to avoid them which is a timesink.
The foozle gives the same 10 xp inside or outside a quest. But if you have to kill 10 foozles for 10 xp per kill and then get 400 xp for the foozle-killing quest, you *effectively* got 50 xp per foozle, of which 40 xp were from the quest reward divided by the number of foozles.
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