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Thursday, May 10, 2007
Games and controls
Microsoft has a Games for Windows initiative which plans to make playing games on a PC more similar to playing a game on a console. The initiative has some laudable parts aiming to standardize games and make them easier to install and handle. But another part of the initiative is Games for Windows - Live, an online service working like the XBox Live service, for players to meet online and play games against each other. And for some titles that have been released for both the PC and the XBox, you are supposed to be able to play against each other, regardless of platform. Sounds nice? But early testing revealed a problem: The average gamer playing a first person shooter on a PC with keyboard and mouse wtfpwns the average gamer playing the same game on a XBox 360 with a gamepad.
Aiming a virtual gun with a mouse is so much faster and more precise than aiming with a thumbstick that somebody playing on a XBox 360 simply doesn't stand a chance against a PC player. First person shooters are a genre in which people invest in higher resolution optical mouses and special mouse pads to get an advantage. Bringing a gamepad to such a battle is like bringing a knife to a gunfight.
I remember playing Final Fantasy XI on the PC with a gamepad, because the game had been designed for a console, with gamepad controls, and simply ran better if you used the controls it had been made for. Later I tried to use the same gamepad on other MMORPGs, but that didn't work well at all, because the other games had been designed for other control methods. This is often cited as obstacle on bringing a game like WoW to consoles, the controls will just be difficult. Playing a racing game or flight simulator with a steering wheel is a totally different experience than trying to play it on a keyboard. For space shooters a joystick is often the best control method. Every genre has its favorite mode of controls, and they usually aren't working well in other genres.
So either we'll end up having both our consoles and PCs hooked up with keyboards, gamepads, joysticks, and steering wheels, or there will be genres that just go better on a console or on a PC, with multi-platform games being difficult. Right now I prefer to play each game on the platform where it runs and controls best. How about you? Would you want to play WoW on a console? Or console games on your PC?
- posted by Tobold @ 9:15 AM Permanent Link
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I play both on XBOX 360 and PC. What Microsoft wants to do with their Live initiative is to make money. XBOX players would start to unsubscribe their Live-subscription if they get owned by PC gamers all the time. So their solution is to find the lesser denominator, in this case: PC players have to play with the XBOX 360 controlpad.
Personally, I could imagine to play WOW on a console, the problem is that I am used to play on a keyboard with dozens of bound controls (1-0 numbers, WASD + other quick access keys). I cannot imagine how a player with a Logitech G15 would want to transfer the same gaming experience to the console. Next question is, how do you type? You have a voicechat with the XBOX 360 but still, imagine a guild channel where everyone would be happily chatting? Reminds me of old times in Molten Core where 40 players in a raid started to speak their ideas... I think MMOPGs with strong guild interaction don't work too good on a console.
But, instead of making this a problem, why does no console manufacturer simply issue a wireless keyboard/mouse combination that could sit on my lap? Maybe even the trackball which is a good way of having a stationary controller with good mouse functionality.
Personally, I could imagine to play WOW on a console, the problem is that I am used to play on a keyboard with dozens of bound controls (1-0 numbers, WASD + other quick access keys). I cannot imagine how a player with a Logitech G15 would want to transfer the same gaming experience to the console. Next question is, how do you type? You have a voicechat with the XBOX 360 but still, imagine a guild channel where everyone would be happily chatting? Reminds me of old times in Molten Core where 40 players in a raid started to speak their ideas... I think MMOPGs with strong guild interaction don't work too good on a console.
But, instead of making this a problem, why does no console manufacturer simply issue a wireless keyboard/mouse combination that could sit on my lap? Maybe even the trackball which is a good way of having a stationary controller with good mouse functionality.
depends totally on the port ;)
KOTOR was the first game i almost bought a console for, but luckily they ported it, and imho pretty good.
hoever FABLE sounded nice as well, but omg, the horror of the controls made me stuff it rather quickly.
but since i never owned a console i cannot speak about ports from pc->console. but i cannot imagine how rts,mmorpgs good be played on consoles unless simplified, and do we want that?
oh well, picking up my german wii today or tomorrow so ;)
KOTOR was the first game i almost bought a console for, but luckily they ported it, and imho pretty good.
hoever FABLE sounded nice as well, but omg, the horror of the controls made me stuff it rather quickly.
but since i never owned a console i cannot speak about ports from pc->console. but i cannot imagine how rts,mmorpgs good be played on consoles unless simplified, and do we want that?
oh well, picking up my german wii today or tomorrow so ;)
Yes! As a middle aged PC gamer whose doddery reflexes stand no chance whatsoever against a sprightly teenager in a fair match I can finally shout: L2P NOOBSAUCE to all those console whizzkids :D
I am a huge fan of mouse look control and I cannot believe that console manufacturers have not managed to come up with a portable equivalent yet. You don't need a full keybord (five or six buttons is enough) but you do need something you can point. How does a Wiimote compare to mouselook?
I am a huge fan of mouse look control and I cannot believe that console manufacturers have not managed to come up with a portable equivalent yet. You don't need a full keybord (five or six buttons is enough) but you do need something you can point. How does a Wiimote compare to mouselook?
It would be impossible to play MMORPG's like WoW on a console. Can you imagine trying to play WoW on a gamepad that has about as many buttons as a gaming mouse?
Not to mention all the chat issues, WoW would have to have speech-to-text converter for anyone without a keyboard or a standard mod like teamspeak built into the game.
It would be nice to have more people to punish :) and I'm sure the gaming companies would like to see it too (more cash) but I doubt it will happen.
@mbp There was a design of the sidewinder gamepad that was based on the gamepad movement, left-right up-down. That could be incorporated to replace "mouselook" for consoles. I believe that particular gamepad flopped simply b/c it was hard to control and there weren't many games that could use it's features
Not to mention all the chat issues, WoW would have to have speech-to-text converter for anyone without a keyboard or a standard mod like teamspeak built into the game.
It would be nice to have more people to punish :) and I'm sure the gaming companies would like to see it too (more cash) but I doubt it will happen.
@mbp There was a design of the sidewinder gamepad that was based on the gamepad movement, left-right up-down. That could be incorporated to replace "mouselook" for consoles. I believe that particular gamepad flopped simply b/c it was hard to control and there weren't many games that could use it's features
# posted by 
: 10/5/07 13:01
: 10/5/07 13:01
I've played tons and tons of FPS on the PC, you name it, from wolfenstien up to year of counterstrike: source, doom 3, etc... I've also played lots of console FPS. I've played tons of halo, doom, oblivion, etc on console.
After adjusting to the duel sticks for Halo, I became pretty good, but maybe 25% as good as I was with a keyboard/mouse. I doubt microsoft will limit what hardware a person can use if they are competing against each other. For PC games atleast, the servers are player run, I'd imagine the same with xbox? Perhaps xbox servers wouldn't allow PC players to join. This would null and void microsofts hopes. If I played xbox I wouldn't want to get 'wtfpwnd' by pc players. Lets not forget macro's and other things pc players can use. In CS:source I'd buy my equipment with one button. I cant imagine having to start each round by going through 5 different menus.
After adjusting to the duel sticks for Halo, I became pretty good, but maybe 25% as good as I was with a keyboard/mouse. I doubt microsoft will limit what hardware a person can use if they are competing against each other. For PC games atleast, the servers are player run, I'd imagine the same with xbox? Perhaps xbox servers wouldn't allow PC players to join. This would null and void microsofts hopes. If I played xbox I wouldn't want to get 'wtfpwnd' by pc players. Lets not forget macro's and other things pc players can use. In CS:source I'd buy my equipment with one button. I cant imagine having to start each round by going through 5 different menus.
I've mentioned Phantasy Star Online before, so I will again!
This game came out on the Dreamcast, and was a very successful MMORG. To complement it, Sega brought out a keyboard that plugged into the Dreamcast, so you could use that to talk with. Failing that, the game had a big communications 'drop down' menu, that had a lot of standard phrases in it, eg Hello everyone; Nice playing with you; and so on, that would be automatically translated into other languages - in this way I was able to make friends with Japanese players who couldn't speak a word of English (and vice versa, of course).
The game then came out on Gamecube, but there was no keyboard support for the platform by Sega initially. Instead, some other developer came out with a cheapish keyboard (Powerboard) which worked well enough.
Finally PSO came out on PC as PSO Blueburst, and so it did away with the joypad, relying on keyboard controls instead.
As a long-time joypad user, I found the keyboard impossible to use, and eventually got a joypad adapter to play the game on PC.
Other players swore that the keyboard was a lot easier to use.
I think it all comes down to what you are used to playing.
The issue with slow cursor movement on consoles is usually where you have a fixed view, and have to move the cursor from one side of the screen to the other; when you can move your whole character as well as the cursor, this is not a problem (Halo, for instance).
This game came out on the Dreamcast, and was a very successful MMORG. To complement it, Sega brought out a keyboard that plugged into the Dreamcast, so you could use that to talk with. Failing that, the game had a big communications 'drop down' menu, that had a lot of standard phrases in it, eg Hello everyone; Nice playing with you; and so on, that would be automatically translated into other languages - in this way I was able to make friends with Japanese players who couldn't speak a word of English (and vice versa, of course).
The game then came out on Gamecube, but there was no keyboard support for the platform by Sega initially. Instead, some other developer came out with a cheapish keyboard (Powerboard) which worked well enough.
Finally PSO came out on PC as PSO Blueburst, and so it did away with the joypad, relying on keyboard controls instead.
As a long-time joypad user, I found the keyboard impossible to use, and eventually got a joypad adapter to play the game on PC.
Other players swore that the keyboard was a lot easier to use.
I think it all comes down to what you are used to playing.
The issue with slow cursor movement on consoles is usually where you have a fixed view, and have to move the cursor from one side of the screen to the other; when you can move your whole character as well as the cursor, this is not a problem (Halo, for instance).
# posted by : 10/5/07 15:35
: 10/5/07 15:35
Age Of Conan is now going to be released on the Xbox 360 under the games for windows initiative. Playing an MMO with collision detection may prove easier with two thumbsticks vs a keyboard simply because having one stick for defense and one stick for offense seems to me a better idea than having to switch between stances on a keyboard. I can't wait to wtfpwn xbox gamers over games like shadowmelt though.
# posted by : 10/5/07 16:15
: 10/5/07 16:15
With the new consoles having usb ports and running pretty big OSes I think adding a mouse and keyboard would be rather easy. There must simply be a reason neither Sony nor MSFT want to. I can only imagine they are afraid of cannibalizing PC sales. If MSFT is losing money on xboxes they might not want to give incentives to stop people from buying PCs with Windows. Just one thought - doesn't explain Sony's reluctance to add a KB/Mouse.
# posted by : 10/5/07 16:43
: 10/5/07 16:43
WoW is a MMORPG, being a Massive Multiplayer game, you need to talk to people. I wouldn't want to use my controller to find the "r" key on the on-screen keyboard. Imagine typing instructions on how to kill Ragnaros with a 6 button handheld device? It won't work.
# posted by : 10/5/07 20:05
: 10/5/07 20:05
US PC Gamer (May '07 issue) had an article on Shadowrun, which lets PC gamers (pun intended ;) go head to head against Xbox 360 players, in fact the staff of PC Gamer did just that when they challenged the staff of Official Xbox Magazine to a Shadowrun Showdown.
I can only give the PC Gamer side of the story because I don't have an Xbox or get their magazine, but the PC Gamer guys claimed to consistently outkill the Xbox team. However they did say the Xbox team put up a decent fight, and the Xbox crew themselves said they didn't feel like they'd been at a disadvantage, they just got beaten.
I can only give the PC Gamer side of the story because I don't have an Xbox or get their magazine, but the PC Gamer guys claimed to consistently outkill the Xbox team. However they did say the Xbox team put up a decent fight, and the Xbox crew themselves said they didn't feel like they'd been at a disadvantage, they just got beaten.
I've read similar articles not just that recent one, but a number of others over the past few years and always the keyboard and mouse players beat the console players - no matter how good.
# posted by : 11/5/07 00:51
: 11/5/07 00:51
Here is an article which suggests that Shdowrun is pretty well balanced between PC and Game pad controlled versions.
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/02/23/shadowrun-keyboard-versus-controller-in-the-final-battle/
However it seems that the game has been carefully designed to achieve this balance which probably means compromise in some areas. I don't see a big future for this type of compromise gaming. Far more likely is that if cross platform games take off they will standardise on one interface and PC gamers will just have to buy a gamepad and put up with it (sob).
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/02/23/shadowrun-keyboard-versus-controller-in-the-final-battle/
However it seems that the game has been carefully designed to achieve this balance which probably means compromise in some areas. I don't see a big future for this type of compromise gaming. Far more likely is that if cross platform games take off they will standardise on one interface and PC gamers will just have to buy a gamepad and put up with it (sob).
lets remember those who all they care about is playing with their friends, take me for example my best friend is a playstation fanboy so doesnt have a xbox360 (well actually after about 6 months of me pestering him he broke down and got an elite) but before we could never play games together. With the xbox live we could play together him on the pc and me on the 360, who cares if he wtfpwns me? I just want to have fun.
# posted by : 11/5/07 18:04
: 11/5/07 18:04
I got an arcade emulator and a SNES emulator, and play old arcade titles and SNES titles on my PC. Of course I also had to get a Gamepad because using your keyboard to play a game designed around a 4 or 6-button controller was just not the same.
Super Punch Out on my PC rocked just as much as I remember it on my old SNES :)
Super Punch Out on my PC rocked just as much as I remember it on my old SNES :)
A slide was shown citing "New Revenue Stream from Subscription" as one of the "5 Key Advantages of the Playstation 3. ...
# posted by : 27/11/09 17:28
: 27/11/09 17:28
PlayStation Eye and Sony motion control interface lead researcher Richard Marks answers questions about the company's upcoming PlayStation 3 motion control interface: pcworld.com/article/169398/exclusive_sony_answers_12_questions_about_playstation_3_motion_control.html
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# posted by : 27/11/09 17:28
: 27/11/09 17:28<< Home
