www.Tobold.com
Tobold@GMail.com
A blog with my thoughts regarding games I am playing and other stuff in life. Please read my Terms of Service
RSS Feed
Friday, June 01, 2007
Why fantasy?
The most successful MMORPGs all have a medieval fantasy setting, some sort of sword and sorcery. Ultima Online, Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, Lineage, Final Fantasy XI, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Vanguard, Age of Conan, and the upcoming Warhammer Online all fall squarely in this genre. The market share of non-fantasy MMORPGs, like Star Wars Galaxies, EVE Online, or City of Heroes / Villains, is tiny. Historical games like A Tale in the Desert have never really taken off, and if you look closer at a game like Gods & Heroes : Rome Rising, it is closer to a Roman era fantasy game than real historic. Pirate games seem to be better placed for success, there are several of them appearing in 2007. But where are the MMORPG where you play a gangster in Chicago in the 30s, a World War 2 soldier, an archeologist in a Cthulhu horror setting, or a detective fighting crime in Victorian England? Why has fantasy such a huge market share in MMORPGs, while having a much smaller market share in books, films, TV or other media?
One reason is certainly the origin of online role-playing games having their base in pen and paper fantasy games like Dungeons & Dragons. But pen and paper roleplaying games quickly expanded in many other genres, and you could play anything from a Werewolf to the captain of the Enterprise. I've seen a lot less variety in online roleplaying games than in pen and paper ones.
The lack of success of other genre MMORPGs might be related to a lack of imagination of the game developers. Games like Anarchy Online or Star Wars Galaxies, while nominally in the SciFi genre, had gameplays that was very similar to fantasy MMORPGs, being limited to the surface of planets (SWG introduced space combat much later). In Anarchy Online even combat with laser guns worked pretty much like combat with swords in a fantasy game, leading to the crazy spectacle of a player avatar and some NPC mob standing toe to toe and shooting at each other with huge laser guns. Not very believable. EVE Online is doing better by having space combat instead. We'll have to see how well the MMOFPS idea of Tabula Rasa works.
The secret of making a good game in a genre different from fantasy is to not only change the settings, but match the gameplay with the setting. The upcoming Pirates of the Burning Sea will apparently resembe Sid Meier's Pirates more than World of Warcraft, and that is a good thing. Fantasy will certainly remain prominent in MMORPGs for years to come, but it is now probably easier to gain market share with different gameplay in a different genre than by making some sort of WoW clone. What genre would you most like to see turned into a MMORPG?
- posted by Tobold @ 4:14 PM Permanent Link
Comments:
<< Home
Newer› ‹Older
Fantasy is maketable to a wider range of people and is just more familiar IMO.
Sparkly magic, bright colors, strange creatures, big elf breasts. Its easy to accept and its a good escape.
For me personally, when i have to start considering finding simulacrons or working out how much firepower to squeeze into my Class D Battlecruiser (WTF is class D?) or which cyberpunk is planning on hacking the neuron core of the worlds plasma energy creator, its just not something i can connect with.
Might just be me, but ive found out of all the MMOs i have tried, fantasy themed ones were just easier to get into and easier to get enjoyment out of.
Sparkly magic, bright colors, strange creatures, big elf breasts. Its easy to accept and its a good escape.
For me personally, when i have to start considering finding simulacrons or working out how much firepower to squeeze into my Class D Battlecruiser (WTF is class D?) or which cyberpunk is planning on hacking the neuron core of the worlds plasma energy creator, its just not something i can connect with.
Might just be me, but ive found out of all the MMOs i have tried, fantasy themed ones were just easier to get into and easier to get enjoyment out of.
For your World War 2 fix check out World War 2 Online (www.wwiionline.com). It had one hell of a rocky launch but, like many other games, really started to come into it's own while I was playing it a few years ago. I understand they are still going strong and the game is actually really good now. I think they are marketing almost exclusively to the European market now.
Aye, as Jason says there's World War 2 Online. I'd hesitate to classify it as a MMORPG, and call it simply a MMOG. Though it does have a concept of experience and ranks (levels) that open up more equipment as you play.
But ww2ol is hardly popular. It's player base is mostly "enthusiasts" or "purists", and most people find it hard to progress as a n00b. Ranking up is hard work, and you have both a deficit in skills (ie your own experiance and ablities) and an equipment (you might flying a Mk1 Hurricane and the other side FW190s). But it is a game that rewards effort. Find a good squad that will teach you the ropes and operate as a team and the fun factor can be very high indeed!
Then of course there was Planetside. It was flawed when I played it, but some of the mass battles with lasers flying and ranks of players battling each others left me with some of my fav memories from online gaming!
I'm looking forward to trying Tabula Rasa. Some of things Garriot has said about it are interesting. I don't feel it will play like an "FPS", though you do have to point your gun at the enemy to hit him. I think it will be a little more measured and RPG like than that.
But at the end of the day, the MMOGS I am most interested in are Fantasy based. LOTRO and WAR!
(BTW, watch the latest WAR Podcast on quests.)
But ww2ol is hardly popular. It's player base is mostly "enthusiasts" or "purists", and most people find it hard to progress as a n00b. Ranking up is hard work, and you have both a deficit in skills (ie your own experiance and ablities) and an equipment (you might flying a Mk1 Hurricane and the other side FW190s). But it is a game that rewards effort. Find a good squad that will teach you the ropes and operate as a team and the fun factor can be very high indeed!
Then of course there was Planetside. It was flawed when I played it, but some of the mass battles with lasers flying and ranks of players battling each others left me with some of my fav memories from online gaming!
I'm looking forward to trying Tabula Rasa. Some of things Garriot has said about it are interesting. I don't feel it will play like an "FPS", though you do have to point your gun at the enemy to hit him. I think it will be a little more measured and RPG like than that.
But at the end of the day, the MMOGS I am most interested in are Fantasy based. LOTRO and WAR!
(BTW, watch the latest WAR Podcast on quests.)
Sci fi for me. I still haven't found a sci fi mmorpg that kept me engaged for more than a few months. This includes, SW:G, SoR, EVE and AO.
I wonder if ST Online will be any good.
I wonder if ST Online will be any good.
Other settings/genres I think could have potential, if done 'right':
World of Starcraft, for obvious reasons.
Cyberpunk (come on, Shadowrun... A FPS? Seriously)
Wild West
Big Stompy Robots
Martial Arts (old kung fu movie style)
Pro Wrestling (Raw vs Smackdown MMO!)
I could flesh those out a bit more, but it would take up too much room.
World of Starcraft, for obvious reasons.
Cyberpunk (come on, Shadowrun... A FPS? Seriously)
Wild West
Big Stompy Robots
Martial Arts (old kung fu movie style)
Pro Wrestling (Raw vs Smackdown MMO!)
I could flesh those out a bit more, but it would take up too much room.
# posted by 
: 1/6/07 18:14
: 1/6/07 18:14
It's not just "lack of imagination" on game developer's side. Look at media in general: Movies, games, books, music... everything is dominated by magic/gothic/fantastic/esoteric themes, fantasy is pop culture at the moment.
This will change, maybe sci-fi comes back, maybe dinosaurs, maybe another renaissance... we'll see.
My wishes? A bladerunner-like sci-fi/noir setting.
imYemeth
This will change, maybe sci-fi comes back, maybe dinosaurs, maybe another renaissance... we'll see.
My wishes? A bladerunner-like sci-fi/noir setting.
imYemeth
# posted by : 1/6/07 18:28
: 1/6/07 18:28
I find this question intriguing, because my RPG/MMORPG arc is similar to what Tobold is describing (and probably typical of casual gamers of, ahem, a certain age...). In other words, introduced as a teenager to conventional RPGs by AD&D, gradually interested in other RPG genres (Star Trek, Cthulhu, etc.), then reintroduced to MMORPGs as a working adult -- mainly as a way of keeping touch with high-school and college friends who are now scattered all over the continent. (On a barely-related note, I agree with most of Tobold's complaints about the WoW endgame, largely because Blizzard's design has made group cohesion very difficult for crowds like mine, but that's a different topic.)
One thing I wonder is how big a share of the PnP RPG market non-fantasy games actually had. In other words, did D&D (and other fantasy games) dominate PnP to roughly the same degree that WoW and the fantasy genre dominate MMOs? I loved "Call of Cthulhu," for example, but I imagine it was an economic pygmy compared to D&D, and even more so for a fairly obscure historical-swashbuckling game called "Flashing Blades" that my friends and I got deeply into for a while, but which I imagine is at best a footnote in RPG history.
Even so, though, I'm guessing that diversity was more economically feasible in the PnP days: it's relatively easy for a company to take a chance on printing a few hundred or couple thousand copies of an RPG that will probably slide into oblivion. I imagine the costs of setting up a viable MMO are large enough that no one decides casually to take that sort of risk. Which is too bad: back in the day (I say as I toss down my Geritol), my friends and I liked changes of pace and a variety of genres.
What I'd like to see: A Bladerunner/cyberpunk game, like others have suggested, would be cool. Martial arts and/or Asian fantasy could be fun (a Guild Wars: Faction look, combined with WoW depth?). Sci-fi/space opera would be nice, too, although that could go in so many directions, it's hard to say. The Lovecraft fan in me wouldn't mind a Cthulhu MMO, although role-playing is _so_ important in that context that I'm not sure how well the MMO would work. (The art could be amazing, though, although maybe it's the sort of thing you wouldn't be able to play before bedtime!)
One thing I wonder is how big a share of the PnP RPG market non-fantasy games actually had. In other words, did D&D (and other fantasy games) dominate PnP to roughly the same degree that WoW and the fantasy genre dominate MMOs? I loved "Call of Cthulhu," for example, but I imagine it was an economic pygmy compared to D&D, and even more so for a fairly obscure historical-swashbuckling game called "Flashing Blades" that my friends and I got deeply into for a while, but which I imagine is at best a footnote in RPG history.
Even so, though, I'm guessing that diversity was more economically feasible in the PnP days: it's relatively easy for a company to take a chance on printing a few hundred or couple thousand copies of an RPG that will probably slide into oblivion. I imagine the costs of setting up a viable MMO are large enough that no one decides casually to take that sort of risk. Which is too bad: back in the day (I say as I toss down my Geritol), my friends and I liked changes of pace and a variety of genres.
What I'd like to see: A Bladerunner/cyberpunk game, like others have suggested, would be cool. Martial arts and/or Asian fantasy could be fun (a Guild Wars: Faction look, combined with WoW depth?). Sci-fi/space opera would be nice, too, although that could go in so many directions, it's hard to say. The Lovecraft fan in me wouldn't mind a Cthulhu MMO, although role-playing is _so_ important in that context that I'm not sure how well the MMO would work. (The art could be amazing, though, although maybe it's the sort of thing you wouldn't be able to play before bedtime!)
# posted by : 1/6/07 19:00
: 1/6/07 19:00
Shame on you Tobold; this is obvious )
You see, mmorpgs are built around the acquisition of loot. Gear upgrades are essential to the genre.
There simply aren't enough gear upgrades in a western or gangster mmo to work.
Let's look at the Western.
Here's the possible loot.
6 gun
level action rifle
nice horse
quick draw holster
That's it.
A mmorpg must have a steady upgrade path or achievers will grow bored, and achievers carry the mmo market.
And you can be a casual achiever, btw, which is why I didn't use the phrase power gamer.
You see, mmorpgs are built around the acquisition of loot. Gear upgrades are essential to the genre.
There simply aren't enough gear upgrades in a western or gangster mmo to work.
Let's look at the Western.
Here's the possible loot.
6 gun
level action rifle
nice horse
quick draw holster
That's it.
A mmorpg must have a steady upgrade path or achievers will grow bored, and achievers carry the mmo market.
And you can be a casual achiever, btw, which is why I didn't use the phrase power gamer.
# posted by : 1/6/07 19:13
: 1/6/07 19:13
To the above poster. It's not specifically about the gear upgrades concerning the Wild West or the Gangster era. The real problem is getting around the fact of those era's actually happening in our history. When was the last time you read about an orc and a night elf in your history class? That's why the non-fantasy genres will have problems, they have boundries they have to maintain to keep a sense of credibility.
Fantasy games allow you to make up lore and create places/things/events that have never happened.
-Ryan
Fantasy games allow you to make up lore and create places/things/events that have never happened.
-Ryan
# posted by : 1/6/07 19:24
: 1/6/07 19:24
Tobold, I've given many MMO's a chance and none of them kept my attention, probably because I roll my eyes whenever I see an Elf or an Orc. SWG seems to interest me the most and I'll admit on paper it looks pretty good. I realize that this game has pretty much proven to be an epic failure, but I'd like to hear the reasons why from someone who's given enough MMO's a try to know what works and what doesn't.
CoX had no real loot until recently. PnP DnD loot didn't really matter since DMs just tuned encounters to your current level anyway.
There have been tons of westerns with bizarre items in tv and movies to pick from. With wacky inventors making machines, or new-fangled forensics. Of course none of those became very popular. Six shooters weren't even around at the very beginning, these could be an upgrade.
Some western games have really done well with the duelling system.
Or westerns would be good if they incorporated player bases and protecting your loot. Money having encumberance would work perfect: no banks except regular buildings with safes, which might get robbed by other players. That alone would also fight RMT since gold sellers couldn't amass thousands of dollars in cash it would just get stolen.
The only way to protect cash would be to get rid of it by investing in businesses, cattle, casinos, buying gold claims, etc. Then you have to protect them from other robbers/players.
Then of course there are factions and zones. Various indian tribes, the Union army, ex confederates, etc.
I see a lot of potential in something like that for westerns, like what Conan is supposedly going to try to do.
There is probably a big hit waiting in the flying robot anime space opera genre.
There have been tons of westerns with bizarre items in tv and movies to pick from. With wacky inventors making machines, or new-fangled forensics. Of course none of those became very popular. Six shooters weren't even around at the very beginning, these could be an upgrade.
Some western games have really done well with the duelling system.
Or westerns would be good if they incorporated player bases and protecting your loot. Money having encumberance would work perfect: no banks except regular buildings with safes, which might get robbed by other players. That alone would also fight RMT since gold sellers couldn't amass thousands of dollars in cash it would just get stolen.
The only way to protect cash would be to get rid of it by investing in businesses, cattle, casinos, buying gold claims, etc. Then you have to protect them from other robbers/players.
Then of course there are factions and zones. Various indian tribes, the Union army, ex confederates, etc.
I see a lot of potential in something like that for westerns, like what Conan is supposedly going to try to do.
There is probably a big hit waiting in the flying robot anime space opera genre.
# posted by : 1/6/07 20:29
: 1/6/07 20:29
For my part, I'd love a good post-apocalyptic game (ala Gamma World, which was my favorite never-played RPG setting for the longest time).
The advantage is also the problem... the most appropriate gameplay style (for GW, at least) is the "wandering heroic adventurer" style that drives fantasy... so why bother?
I'd also kill for a good Victorian Era setting: tho I'd want plenty of Jules Verne and Bram Stoker mixed in as well.
Part of the problem with sci-fi, IMO, as opposed to fantasy at least, is that each sci-fi setting is usually pretty distinctive in terms of it's quirks and details... compare the concepts in Star Wars, Star Trek, Farscape, Larry Niven's Ringworld/Known Space, and Frank Herbert's Dune. All pretty much space-opera sci-fi... but very different styles.
Fantasy on the other hand... there are vaguely different flavors, but Arthurian/Tolkien/Nordic/Celtic concepts basically rule the roost.
The advantage is also the problem... the most appropriate gameplay style (for GW, at least) is the "wandering heroic adventurer" style that drives fantasy... so why bother?
I'd also kill for a good Victorian Era setting: tho I'd want plenty of Jules Verne and Bram Stoker mixed in as well.
Part of the problem with sci-fi, IMO, as opposed to fantasy at least, is that each sci-fi setting is usually pretty distinctive in terms of it's quirks and details... compare the concepts in Star Wars, Star Trek, Farscape, Larry Niven's Ringworld/Known Space, and Frank Herbert's Dune. All pretty much space-opera sci-fi... but very different styles.
Fantasy on the other hand... there are vaguely different flavors, but Arthurian/Tolkien/Nordic/Celtic concepts basically rule the roost.
# posted by : 1/6/07 20:44
: 1/6/07 20:44
SWG seems to interest me the most and I'll admit on paper it looks pretty good. I realize that this game has pretty much proven to be an epic failure, but I'd like to hear the reasons why from someone who's given enough MMO's a try to know what works and what doesn't.
I think "epic failure" is too strong a term, for most people "disappointing" was more like it. SWG didn't live up to the enormous potential of the license. But the game definitely had its good sides, for example the unique resource harvesting system. SWG also had a pretty good player housing system, including the possibility for a guild to build a player-run city.
What I didn't like about SWG was the bland random quest generators, which just didn't tell the Star Wars universe story. And the class and combat system wasn't great either, although that has completely changed now, and I can't say how good the new version is. At launch SWG unfortunately was buggy as hell, but again I can't say how it is now. And since I left space combat has been added too. So giving it a try might not be such a bad idea. Especially since there is a free trial.
I think "epic failure" is too strong a term, for most people "disappointing" was more like it. SWG didn't live up to the enormous potential of the license. But the game definitely had its good sides, for example the unique resource harvesting system. SWG also had a pretty good player housing system, including the possibility for a guild to build a player-run city.
What I didn't like about SWG was the bland random quest generators, which just didn't tell the Star Wars universe story. And the class and combat system wasn't great either, although that has completely changed now, and I can't say how good the new version is. At launch SWG unfortunately was buggy as hell, but again I can't say how it is now. And since I left space combat has been added too. So giving it a try might not be such a bad idea. Especially since there is a free trial.
For a gangster era MMO, there are a million possibilities. Offering 'protection.' Playing as a Cop or a mobster. Have gambling and bootlegging as professions. Millions of possibilities. I LOVE the idea. Tommy gun upgrades, car upgrades, new suits that give new stats. Wow you have my mind buzzy here Tobold. Even give it a nice movie twist with the Godfather or other such twist.
I don't know how many times I've sat down and written out how I'd do Harvest Moon Online. Again you'd have the "gear upgrade" grind as your farm becomes more profitable and you can afford to buy new tools & equipment, more livestock, new buildings allowing tasks to be automated, like milking or shearing, etc. All with the added bonus of having realistic Player Housing where other players can see how well you're doing just by looking at your Farm and buildings.
Why fantasy is so popular ? Because it is easily conceivable. Everyone knows what a sword is or what a chainmail looks like: ancient history with its tales and myths serves as a perfect template for our imagination.
Sci-Fi on the other hand is difficult to imagine, as no one has the slightest idea (or a very different one) what a plasma repeator rifle looks like.
Sci-Fi on the other hand is difficult to imagine, as no one has the slightest idea (or a very different one) what a plasma repeator rifle looks like.
# posted by : 1/6/07 22:41
: 1/6/07 22:41
Planetside has had a lot of upgrades and changes to the gear this month. If you havent checked it out lately, it's worth another look.
# posted by : 1/6/07 22:57
: 1/6/07 22:57
I would like to see a modern day MMO. The MMO would allow "classes" in the sence of a career.
Someone that's into sci-fi could pick from a scientific career, and their game experience would center around that theme. There could also be law-enforcement, criminals, business professionals, etc etc.
This would have to play like an actual MMORPG, not something like Second Life (ugh). I would like to see a world map with actual locations also.
I'm all for a Cowboys & Indians MMO, but I can easily see lawstuits coming from the Native Americans - didn't they already sue an NFL team & Crayola, amongst other businesses?
Someone that's into sci-fi could pick from a scientific career, and their game experience would center around that theme. There could also be law-enforcement, criminals, business professionals, etc etc.
This would have to play like an actual MMORPG, not something like Second Life (ugh). I would like to see a world map with actual locations also.
I'm all for a Cowboys & Indians MMO, but I can easily see lawstuits coming from the Native Americans - didn't they already sue an NFL team & Crayola, amongst other businesses?
# posted by : 1/6/07 23:52
: 1/6/07 23:52
I'd like to see a combination of WoW,A Tale in the Desert, and Civilization.
Picture an MMORPG, where your character advances much like WoW characters do, but every 10 levels you move to a different area that is a different era in human evolution. ie)levels 1-10 you are a caveman/cavewoman. Furthermore, certain area's don't open up until the server population is able to complete some server-wide, epic quests in order to advance the civilization of the server.
Or something like that. It would also be cool if an MMPORG combined fantasy, sci-fi, ... etc all in one game. Imagine being a dwarf rogue in WoW and stepping into an instance where you are an assassin (a very short one) for a 1950's mafia gang.
Picture an MMORPG, where your character advances much like WoW characters do, but every 10 levels you move to a different area that is a different era in human evolution. ie)levels 1-10 you are a caveman/cavewoman. Furthermore, certain area's don't open up until the server population is able to complete some server-wide, epic quests in order to advance the civilization of the server.
Or something like that. It would also be cool if an MMPORG combined fantasy, sci-fi, ... etc all in one game. Imagine being a dwarf rogue in WoW and stepping into an instance where you are an assassin (a very short one) for a 1950's mafia gang.
You know what I've always, always wanted? Obviously not, I haven't said it yet. But...
Multi-generational MMORPG. As you level up, you age. It's intrinsically connected. Depending on your class, you become musclier, scarred, your hair greys, etc. Your have a courtship minigame, choose a wife or husband, and the 'end game' is retiring from adventuring to have kids. You need to keep your child alive just long enough for it to be come semi-independent, then... Bingo. You play as the kid. Your dad/mum becomes a kind of powerful summon, perhaps. You get family heirloom equipment, and your stats, skills and class is dictated, up to a point, by your parents.
Multi-generational MMORPG. As you level up, you age. It's intrinsically connected. Depending on your class, you become musclier, scarred, your hair greys, etc. Your have a courtship minigame, choose a wife or husband, and the 'end game' is retiring from adventuring to have kids. You need to keep your child alive just long enough for it to be come semi-independent, then... Bingo. You play as the kid. Your dad/mum becomes a kind of powerful summon, perhaps. You get family heirloom equipment, and your stats, skills and class is dictated, up to a point, by your parents.
# posted by : 2/6/07 00:47
: 2/6/07 00:47
Oh my God, I'm not alone. Capn John, I've also spent time drawing out how Harvest Moon Online could work. Too bad we don't have a few million stashed somewhere to bank roll a run at it. The Sims meets Harvest Moon is the type of gaming crack that could bankrupt my life. :-)
# posted by : 2/6/07 00:54
: 2/6/07 00:54
BTW some company is actually developing an MMO based on the victorian time period. I don't have the time at the moment to find where I read that but I'm sure Google would do the trick. I'm very interested in seeing how that pans out.
# posted by : 2/6/07 00:56
: 2/6/07 00:56
i was lokking for something like shadowrun as an mmo, so i found neocron 2, never tested it so far, cuz' there was no gratis testweek or something at that time.
Now shadowrun is in development and i hope they don't mess around with the system just to make fast and big bucks, let's see.
Of course it is about the environment and the items, the crafting-system, and so on, but it is also really important to create a dense atmosphere, doesn't matter wether it is medieval or sci-fi, important is you have to feel like you are in the fictional world of the game.
Now shadowrun is in development and i hope they don't mess around with the system just to make fast and big bucks, let's see.
Of course it is about the environment and the items, the crafting-system, and so on, but it is also really important to create a dense atmosphere, doesn't matter wether it is medieval or sci-fi, important is you have to feel like you are in the fictional world of the game.
In any bookshop I have ever gone into there is a section called something like Fantasy and Science Fiction. It is usually a pretty big section, not as big as the best seller section or the crime section (if there is one) but pretty big none the less. The people who choose books from this F&SF section often pick books from other sections too (many of them are avid readers) but they are nevertheless a subset of the total book buying population. At the risk of being accused of stereo-typing I would suggest that the early adapters of MMORPGS have come directly from this subset. These are people who enjoy fantasy worlds and it has been an easy sell to get them to experiment with on-line versions of fantasy worlds. I do believe that the medium has the capability to appeal to a wider audience and perhaps this will be an essential step on the mythical path to making MMORPGs mainstream. Try as I might when considering the future of MMORPGS I find it hard to get away from Club Penguin and the fact that the MMORPGS of the future may not appeal to the dyed in the wool geeks like us who were in at the beginning.
Drop the MMO from MMORPG and you get closer to the matter I think. Paper&Pencil RPGs are also heavily slanted toward a medival theme, with indeed too exceptions just like in the MMO setting.
Why does the medival have such a lure? I'm not sure. Grimm's fairy tales are medival and we don't really have "sci-fi" fairy tales. Maybe that's too Freudian, but it may just be as simple as that.
Why does the medival have such a lure? I'm not sure. Grimm's fairy tales are medival and we don't really have "sci-fi" fairy tales. Maybe that's too Freudian, but it may just be as simple as that.
# posted by : 2/6/07 09:52
: 2/6/07 09:52
Non-fantasy themed MMOs often feel like a fantasy MMO shoehorned into a scifi world for example.
It's very hard to create a non-fantasy setting that feels like one, even after years and month of playing. It's hard to describe why, but to convincing a player with scifi is harder than with fantasy.
Combatwise it's difficult too. Scifi settings often mainly built around ranged combat, something wich is harder to expand than close combat. Try to come up with a rogue-kinda range class and try to built complex encounters around that. It's really hard.
If you ask why there are so many fantasy based MMOs, you also can ask yourself, why there are so few fantasy based FPS for example. Same reasons: gameplay elements are just naturally more suited for one setting than for the other.
There is a beta going on right now for an upcoming scifi MMO-hybrid. Let's just say that, yes - it does feel fresh and different, but no - that doesn't instantly mean better.
It's the same like the SWG, when you played it, you could clearly see why fantasy is so well suited for the genre and why scifi is more difficult, even with such a strong brand like SW.
It's very hard to create a non-fantasy setting that feels like one, even after years and month of playing. It's hard to describe why, but to convincing a player with scifi is harder than with fantasy.
Combatwise it's difficult too. Scifi settings often mainly built around ranged combat, something wich is harder to expand than close combat. Try to come up with a rogue-kinda range class and try to built complex encounters around that. It's really hard.
If you ask why there are so many fantasy based MMOs, you also can ask yourself, why there are so few fantasy based FPS for example. Same reasons: gameplay elements are just naturally more suited for one setting than for the other.
There is a beta going on right now for an upcoming scifi MMO-hybrid. Let's just say that, yes - it does feel fresh and different, but no - that doesn't instantly mean better.
It's the same like the SWG, when you played it, you could clearly see why fantasy is so well suited for the genre and why scifi is more difficult, even with such a strong brand like SW.
# posted by : 2/6/07 14:09
: 2/6/07 14:09
A post holocaust mmorpg would work, though.
You can do a pretty steady progression on firearms and calibers.
Has the new Turbine patch gone live?
You can do a pretty steady progression on firearms and calibers.
Has the new Turbine patch gone live?
# posted by : 2/6/07 14:17
: 2/6/07 14:17
Fantasy MMO's will always be the No.1 form and platform.
Everyone is subjected to the format at some point in their lives. It may be just a few kids stories many years ago, reading Robert Jordan or watching LotR on the big screen.
It is a huge market because nearly everyone can relate to the fantasy world in one form or another. Could everyone relate to a Cyber Punk or Western MMO? I certainly couldn't.
Good fantasy plots, and here I think Blizzard are usually spot on, can touch everyone. It might be the prophetic basis that Hamlet was subjected to. Equally it may just be Good Vs Evil as in Tolkien's work. My point being, fantasy is a mechanic for explaining away the real world whilst escaping from it. It is a tool that has been used for thousands of years by mankind. Where do you think our Germanic Epic Sagas and Greek Tales come from?
Will fantasy stop being the No.1 platform for MMO's? Never. And the next big one is only around the corner.
This is where I have to differ with Tobold.
...but it is now probably easier to gain market share with different gameplay in a different genre than by making some sort of WoW clone.
I really wish a dev team would have the balls to take on WoW at their own game? Give me a WoW clone but just improve on it! Give the game a real sense of casual game play and fix what Blizzard can't fix.
It's a pred/prey relationship. If Saab realease some fantastic new family car would Ford throw the towel in and call it a day?
Of course they wouldn't. They look at Saab's product, emulate it to an extent and improve on it.
In return Saab do the same.
There are a lot of things right with WoW, many things wrong too. I just wish someone would have the balls to emulate them and improve on it.
Everyone is subjected to the format at some point in their lives. It may be just a few kids stories many years ago, reading Robert Jordan or watching LotR on the big screen.
It is a huge market because nearly everyone can relate to the fantasy world in one form or another. Could everyone relate to a Cyber Punk or Western MMO? I certainly couldn't.
Good fantasy plots, and here I think Blizzard are usually spot on, can touch everyone. It might be the prophetic basis that Hamlet was subjected to. Equally it may just be Good Vs Evil as in Tolkien's work. My point being, fantasy is a mechanic for explaining away the real world whilst escaping from it. It is a tool that has been used for thousands of years by mankind. Where do you think our Germanic Epic Sagas and Greek Tales come from?
Will fantasy stop being the No.1 platform for MMO's? Never. And the next big one is only around the corner.
This is where I have to differ with Tobold.
...but it is now probably easier to gain market share with different gameplay in a different genre than by making some sort of WoW clone.
I really wish a dev team would have the balls to take on WoW at their own game? Give me a WoW clone but just improve on it! Give the game a real sense of casual game play and fix what Blizzard can't fix.
It's a pred/prey relationship. If Saab realease some fantastic new family car would Ford throw the towel in and call it a day?
Of course they wouldn't. They look at Saab's product, emulate it to an extent and improve on it.
In return Saab do the same.
There are a lot of things right with WoW, many things wrong too. I just wish someone would have the balls to emulate them and improve on it.
# posted by : 4/6/07 04:09
: 4/6/07 04:09
I always have a bunch of ideas floating around my brain for games and mechanics and what have you, and this conversation has managed to spark off the idea of a steampunk MMO.
I doubt that it'll be particularly mainstream, but its got everything the genre needs! Loot aquisition, crazy technology, BBEGs of varying descriptions. Excelent.
Now to plot the whole thing out in my mind, only for nothing to become of it because I have no way to get into the industry =/
I doubt that it'll be particularly mainstream, but its got everything the genre needs! Loot aquisition, crazy technology, BBEGs of varying descriptions. Excelent.
Now to plot the whole thing out in my mind, only for nothing to become of it because I have no way to get into the industry =/
I know that this may sound stupid to everyone here, but what I wish is that they would make a FREE Civil War time-based game. And instead of all the fighting, yeah you could do that, but you might have a family to feed. Or cook for. Or you could join the Civil War as a soldier. Come on, I can't be the only one obbsesed with the Victorian era, can I? Anyone? :(
Anyway, I have so many game ideas in mind but the game developers are too scared to put anything out that's different because they think it won't be a hit.
For me, I'm tired of kicking up my feet and watching my 2239492047 level character stab, slash, repeat over and over again. How about needing to watch your sick child because they stayed out in the cold too long and asking other players for help that were like, doctors or something. I know that I'm getting too in depth but I'm just saying I would love that. I would also like monitored chat so that no one would talk about what they watched on TV last night while their character would probably look at them and say, "A what?!"
I know. I have no life. :)But I bet a total of 4 people will ever read this. :P
More Sincerely then you thought possible,
Elizabeth
Anyway, I have so many game ideas in mind but the game developers are too scared to put anything out that's different because they think it won't be a hit.
For me, I'm tired of kicking up my feet and watching my 2239492047 level character stab, slash, repeat over and over again. How about needing to watch your sick child because they stayed out in the cold too long and asking other players for help that were like, doctors or something. I know that I'm getting too in depth but I'm just saying I would love that. I would also like monitored chat so that no one would talk about what they watched on TV last night while their character would probably look at them and say, "A what?!"
I know. I have no life. :)But I bet a total of 4 people will ever read this. :P
More Sincerely then you thought possible,
Elizabeth
# posted by : 31/5/08 07:16
: 31/5/08 07:16
Oh, my god... I really HATE fantasy mmorpg. They're just too... too many. If you would like a steampunk mmorpg, there are Remnants of Skystone or Neosteam, but I don't like the last one because those Koreans mixed steampunk, fantasy and manga graphics, and the result sucks. I would like very much a detective/agent game, Sonuy is developing "The agency", an espionage one (very cool), and I would like to be a gangster or a criminal >:-D
# posted by : 27/6/08 12:03
: 27/6/08 12:03
Well said, Elizabeth. Though the civil war would not be my favorite topic, I totally could see a MMO where combat wasn't all important. Picture this (any setting works, but I would prefer medieval nonfantasy):
1. No NPC's
2. Stable, realistic economy (some players are farmers, loggers. etc.)
3. Interesting minigames (Harvest Moonesque for farmers, combat shouldn't be more important that the other aspects, but still entertaining)
4. Flexible politics, structures and borders (e.g: Large coalition of players decide they are no longer satisfied with the monarchy and start an uprising, cutting off supply lines and taking down key people and structures. Eventually they form a new rupublic)
5. Different regions have different cultural feels (European, Oriental, Roman, Mayan, etc.)
6. Death is rarer than in most MMO's but real and permanent. (I know this sound harsh but I think it's neccesary to preserve the logical integrity of the game; perhaps you get to keep most of your points to spend in making your new character.)
7. Noobs are childern of other players. They don't just appear
8. Point and skill based advancement system (GURPS-like)
9. You can't get away with crap like casual n00b murder or robbery because of law enforcement (which are PC's)
10. If way too many people are in a region than are logically possiable, they are split into groups which can only see ppl in their group (not sure about that, but it pisses me off when you're inside some sealed tomb noone's entered for 1000 years and there's 10000 random ppl in there)
11. Travel is difficult and rare to preserve exotic element of far off lands (though not impossible)
Now I know this sound overambitous but if they poured the sort of time and dedication into this that they did into WoW or Spore (which btw, is likely to be a major dissapointment), I think that they (whoever the proverbial "they" are) could pull it off.
1. No NPC's
2. Stable, realistic economy (some players are farmers, loggers. etc.)
3. Interesting minigames (Harvest Moonesque for farmers, combat shouldn't be more important that the other aspects, but still entertaining)
4. Flexible politics, structures and borders (e.g: Large coalition of players decide they are no longer satisfied with the monarchy and start an uprising, cutting off supply lines and taking down key people and structures. Eventually they form a new rupublic)
5. Different regions have different cultural feels (European, Oriental, Roman, Mayan, etc.)
6. Death is rarer than in most MMO's but real and permanent. (I know this sound harsh but I think it's neccesary to preserve the logical integrity of the game; perhaps you get to keep most of your points to spend in making your new character.)
7. Noobs are childern of other players. They don't just appear
8. Point and skill based advancement system (GURPS-like)
9. You can't get away with crap like casual n00b murder or robbery because of law enforcement (which are PC's)
10. If way too many people are in a region than are logically possiable, they are split into groups which can only see ppl in their group (not sure about that, but it pisses me off when you're inside some sealed tomb noone's entered for 1000 years and there's 10000 random ppl in there)
11. Travel is difficult and rare to preserve exotic element of far off lands (though not impossible)
Now I know this sound overambitous but if they poured the sort of time and dedication into this that they did into WoW or Spore (which btw, is likely to be a major dissapointment), I think that they (whoever the proverbial "they" are) could pull it off.
# posted by : 1/7/08 06:22
: 1/7/08 06:22
A friend and I have been thinking about an MMO that cast vampires and werewolves as the starring roles. I know this sounds a bit cliched and a lot like Underworld, but it'd be set in either medieval times or a sort of steampunk-ish future/past setting.
There would be different *clans* of werewolves or vampires, which would equate to races, giving us some variety among only two *actual* races.
I'd also want it to be a more adult MMO. Rated M. The game would have a very dark and horror movie feel. I'm not talking about cheap thriller movies like the Grudge or Saw, but real ones like Dracula or Frankenstein.
The art direction could look sort of like a Tim Burton movie.
I think that would be a REALLY fun game to play.
There would be different *clans* of werewolves or vampires, which would equate to races, giving us some variety among only two *actual* races.
I'd also want it to be a more adult MMO. Rated M. The game would have a very dark and horror movie feel. I'm not talking about cheap thriller movies like the Grudge or Saw, but real ones like Dracula or Frankenstein.
The art direction could look sort of like a Tim Burton movie.
I think that would be a REALLY fun game to play.
# posted by : 27/7/08 04:51
: 27/7/08 04:51
My most recent MMO disappointment was the way Cryptic plans to do Star Trek Online. It looks to be little more than a COH/CoV reskin...which is, IMHO, the single biggest waste of a potential MMO IP.
So....my mind has turned to what the lements of a steampunk MMO could/would be.
This genre would seem to offer a great deal of source material and yet have the potential to offer the sort of experience(s) mentioned here that fantasy mmo's offer.
I also believe that the MMO audience has matured (aged!) enough that something more literary, complex and involving could be successful.
How do we interest some developer?!?!? :)
Post a Comment
So....my mind has turned to what the lements of a steampunk MMO could/would be.
This genre would seem to offer a great deal of source material and yet have the potential to offer the sort of experience(s) mentioned here that fantasy mmo's offer.
I also believe that the MMO audience has matured (aged!) enough that something more literary, complex and involving could be successful.
How do we interest some developer?!?!? :)
# posted by : 21/8/08 11:23
: 21/8/08 11:23<< Home
