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Tuesday, February 12, 2008
Telling a good story in a MMORPG
Cameron from Random Battle has a great article on How Do You Tell a Good Story In an MMOG? and a second part to it. While I agree that it is very hard to tell a good NPC based story in a MMORPG, as opposed to a book or film, I do think there is room for improvement up from where we are with games like WoW. Do people turn on instant quest text display and click "accept" without reading the quest because they don't want a story, or because the stories that World of Warcraft tells us with their quests texts usually aren't all that great?
One point is improving how the story is told. Everquest 2 quest givers have a voice, and in Final Fantasy XI the more important epic quest line stories are told in cut scenes. The epic "book" quests of LotRO also have cutscenes. Maybe we don't need that for every kill ten foozles quest, but those are errands, not quests. World of Warcraft has long quest chains, but they aren't marked as such, and would benefit from A) being visibly a longer story, and B) using other media than text for telling that story.
The other point is that stories in a MMORPG do not necessarily happen between players and NPCs, but the more memorable ones happen between players. And the instinctive reaction of "game developers have no influence over the stories that develop between players" is dead wrong. Game structure and rewards have a strong influence on player behavior, and that leads to the same story happening to different people on different servers. If I asked 100 of you to write an essay about "what happened to my guild when TBC came out", I'd get only around half a dozen different stories. When you read about some guild drama in a blog, half of the time you think "hey, the same happened to other people I know / heard about". There are archetype stories like "top raiders left our guild to join a stronger one" or "someone we trusted robbed the guild bank" which are built in the game mechanics of World of Warcraft. The guild bank robbery didn't happen before, because there was no guild bank, and the story will change in the future because Blizzard is still fiddling around with guild bank access rights setup options. The unhappy story of the top raiders rather joining a new guild than helping their old guild mates to advance could be turned into a much happier story of cooperation and loyalty if Blizzard would set up guilds to reward such behavior and discourage guild hopping.
What game devs need to decide is what kind of stories they want to have in their games, and then give the players the tools that enable those stories. If World of Warcraft is lacking stories of heroic self-sacrifice it is because there isn't actually a way in which you could heroically sacrifice yourself for the advantage of your team. The closest WoW has to that is the paladins ability to die to save somebody else, and that is usually just used when the group is obviously wiping and saving the priest is better than everyone having to run back. It would be neither useful nor heroic to do that in the middle of an encounter.
The force of MMORPGs compared to books, films, or multiplayer shooters, is that MMORPGs are cooperative multiplayer games. There is an endless story potential in people working together, building up trust, betraying trust, sharing, helping each other, being good or evil to each other. These stories already happen every day, but game developers could both increase the story potential and direct those stories into happy endings by giving the players the right gameplay options and reward structures. If World of Warcraft today appears as a game full of egoists and hermits, the game structure is certainly taking some of the blame for that.
- posted by Tobold @ 10:59 AM Permanent Link
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When playing WoW, the only time I ever really bothered reading quest text was when I had absolutely no idea where to find the foozles I was supposed to be killing. Some of the time, but definitely not all of the time, the quest would contain helpful information like "south of the river" or "just beyond the trees". But not every quest had that, even if it probably needed it.
I agree. Honestly blizzard did a great job with some of the pre BC quest lines. Marshall Windsor being the absolute best and i'd have to rate the defias chain second. But too many of them are run here run there run somewhere else and on the 6th or 7th leg when 60 percent of the populace has dropped out because it seems pointless then the good stuff happens.
Also gathering quests are more fun when there is a serious reason. In ashenvale there's a long quest line to get the mats to try and cure a little girl. The fact that you had a heroic reason to do this mad the quest more fun than just "please go kill a bunch of these. They are a problem"
I'm not going to say it was perfect but I think the quests in Vanilla wow were just richer and fuller. Admitting of course there were a lot of unfinished ones.
BC to me just seemed like they filled in the blanks and didn't put any real creative effort into them.
Also gathering quests are more fun when there is a serious reason. In ashenvale there's a long quest line to get the mats to try and cure a little girl. The fact that you had a heroic reason to do this mad the quest more fun than just "please go kill a bunch of these. They are a problem"
I'm not going to say it was perfect but I think the quests in Vanilla wow were just richer and fuller. Admitting of course there were a lot of unfinished ones.
BC to me just seemed like they filled in the blanks and didn't put any real creative effort into them.
The problem for me is that stories in books/films tend to be traditional narratives in the sense that they have moral outcomes - virtually all Hollywood films, for example have a 'lesson' at heart and most modern books do too. Bioshock tries to do that with its multiple endings that depend on how you treated the little sisters, but MMOs don't have that endpoint or moral outcome.
The endpoint in WoW is to be the most powerful, largely because you're unlikely ever to be in a position where you can ultimately defeat the opposing faction or take down Sargeras.
So you do get lots of personal and guild based stories and I guess even these have some moral outcomes or lessons, such as don't leave really valuable mats in the unlocked section of the guild bank, but these are minor setbacks in the greater arc to take down x boss or get the best gear.
The endpoint in WoW is to be the most powerful, largely because you're unlikely ever to be in a position where you can ultimately defeat the opposing faction or take down Sargeras.
So you do get lots of personal and guild based stories and I guess even these have some moral outcomes or lessons, such as don't leave really valuable mats in the unlocked section of the guild bank, but these are minor setbacks in the greater arc to take down x boss or get the best gear.
# posted by 
: 12/2/08 16:09
: 12/2/08 16:09
Tobold stop reading my blog and passing it off as your own posts, you idea thief. Haha kidding, I forget what blog accused you of that, but this post just made me think of that.
Anyway, my blog as well as Pumping Irony also have our opinions on the topic.
Anyway, my blog as well as Pumping Irony also have our opinions on the topic.
# posted by : 12/2/08 16:13
: 12/2/08 16:13
I *always* read the quest text. The questlines are, IMO, the life of the game; kind of like an interactive story. Generally questlines are good; some are quite funny too.
IMO, the Horde-only "Thrall Returns" quest line in TBC is the best I've seen in WoW.
IMO, the Horde-only "Thrall Returns" quest line in TBC is the best I've seen in WoW.
# posted by : 12/2/08 16:30
: 12/2/08 16:30
The real challenge for storytelling in WoW is that almost nothing has any permanent effect on the world.
Even with long chain quests, your actions are forgotten by everyone one second after you accept your reward. And questlines are generally independent, NPCS don't really know anything about players' history or reputation (yeah, you get "I've heard great things about you, dwarf. Now get me 8 brass widgets." but it's obviously generic boilerplate that has no real effect on gameplay -- which is WHY players ignore it).
It's no suprise that the focus becomes the loot or the strategy for winning. It's not about the completing the story, it's about finally getting "x" to drop or how the last person in your party downed the boss with only 10 health left. Those are stories too, but they're pretty independent of the storyline in the game.
There are some exceptions. Some really, really rare -- like opening the AQ gates.
What I'd love to see is NPCs who "respond" to your faction reputation and to your completing certain quests.
How much cooler would it be if you ran into a quest-giver who "remembered" you once saved his neice back in Ashenvale from a terrible fever? What if that affected his behavior, what he said, what quests, and what rewards he offered? What if vendors and other NPCs responded to you based on faction or key quest accomplishments.
You can see a very primitive implementation of that in Ogrila, where ogres remember your efforts to help them and NPCs respond with different emotes depending on your reputation level. It's not perfect (mine near the ogres in BEM and they'lls still attack their "king"), the emotes can be annoying sometimes, but at least there's a tiny sense of players actually having an impact on their world.
RPGs do exactly this and thus often have fantastic storylines and very immersive worlds. MMORPGs don't have it so easy and have to struggle with the issue of multiple players. But maybe Blizzard can use a little of the processing power they're saving from not having to calculate diminishing returns in BGs anymore and use it to breathe more life --and more memory -- into the NPCs in Azeroth and Outland.
Even with long chain quests, your actions are forgotten by everyone one second after you accept your reward. And questlines are generally independent, NPCS don't really know anything about players' history or reputation (yeah, you get "I've heard great things about you, dwarf. Now get me 8 brass widgets." but it's obviously generic boilerplate that has no real effect on gameplay -- which is WHY players ignore it).
It's no suprise that the focus becomes the loot or the strategy for winning. It's not about the completing the story, it's about finally getting "x" to drop or how the last person in your party downed the boss with only 10 health left. Those are stories too, but they're pretty independent of the storyline in the game.
There are some exceptions. Some really, really rare -- like opening the AQ gates.
What I'd love to see is NPCs who "respond" to your faction reputation and to your completing certain quests.
How much cooler would it be if you ran into a quest-giver who "remembered" you once saved his neice back in Ashenvale from a terrible fever? What if that affected his behavior, what he said, what quests, and what rewards he offered? What if vendors and other NPCs responded to you based on faction or key quest accomplishments.
You can see a very primitive implementation of that in Ogrila, where ogres remember your efforts to help them and NPCs respond with different emotes depending on your reputation level. It's not perfect (mine near the ogres in BEM and they'lls still attack their "king"), the emotes can be annoying sometimes, but at least there's a tiny sense of players actually having an impact on their world.
RPGs do exactly this and thus often have fantastic storylines and very immersive worlds. MMORPGs don't have it so easy and have to struggle with the issue of multiple players. But maybe Blizzard can use a little of the processing power they're saving from not having to calculate diminishing returns in BGs anymore and use it to breathe more life --and more memory -- into the NPCs in Azeroth and Outland.
# posted by : 12/2/08 16:48
: 12/2/08 16:48
One last thing: It's sad to see Blizzard squander great storytelling opportunities.
The best example I can think of was the Scourge Invasion where you could recover the tragic last letters of various soldiers and take them to their loved ones scattered across Azeroth.
It was a great disappointment to eventually find the relatives, who all turned out to be lemonade vendors and who accepted the letters without comment.
Did Blizzard simply run out of time trying to complete this content? They never said.
Stuff like that trains you to just hit "accept quest" and move on.
The best example I can think of was the Scourge Invasion where you could recover the tragic last letters of various soldiers and take them to their loved ones scattered across Azeroth.
It was a great disappointment to eventually find the relatives, who all turned out to be lemonade vendors and who accepted the letters without comment.
Did Blizzard simply run out of time trying to complete this content? They never said.
Stuff like that trains you to just hit "accept quest" and move on.
# posted by : 12/2/08 17:00
: 12/2/08 17:00
I agre wholeheartedly, I have seen this happen in plenty of guilds and the same stories play out in many other situations. Blizzard defines the patterns that players will take loosely and then players navigate between the constraints. I like what Lotro has done with the epic quest line but nobody I've seen has really innovated much in giving people a reason to stay in guilds and build them up. I was talking to a friend about Dark Age of Camelot which I never played and he said you could have a guild keep and keep improving its structure and stuff. This sounds like something good. Lotro has kinship houses but nothign is preventing people from just looting the house unless the guild leader knows beforehand that they are untrustworthy and shuts down permissions. CoH has bases but they werent balanced towards fun but were instead a huge grind. As far as quest lines and NPC interaction I would love to see branching quest lines like Baldurs Gate 2 and NPC with personalities like those ones who join your party for a while and fight amongst each other sometimes or make wry comments. I have never yet figured out why in MMO's they think an NPC has a. have a stupid AI b. be weak as a kitten, and c. not be controllable by you or at least as smart in staying close to you as a pet... :P
Pidge hits the nail on the head. You can't have any effect on the world in an MMO. The other players need to be able to kill Illidan even after you have. According to convention, you need to be able to farm Illidan for gear. And the amount of story that's already in the game relies on a hefty dose of suspension of disbelief. (Sure, I'll kill Hogger! Even though I just witnessed that guy do it!)
Refer me to a good story where the world never changes for even a minute and the protagonists are entirely interchangeable, and then I'll concede that an MMO could have a decent story.
Refer me to a good story where the world never changes for even a minute and the protagonists are entirely interchangeable, and then I'll concede that an MMO could have a decent story.
@scott. I agree that pidge has it dead on. The sad thing is there is no good reason that it is that way. Why don't they do things like change up the old content a bit when the scourge invasion hit?
Imagine how much fun it would have been if Some new bosses had moved into MC that required new strats, Onyxia's sisters could have moved into her cave etc. etc. Why hasn't the king of stormwind come back? There are so many thing that could be done a tiny bit at a time that would make people feel like they were slowly changing the world. But I'm sure some dev could come here and explain why it would be inefficient. And I percieve that as the problem. They still really don't seem to get that the Vanilla wow was such a success do to the Artistic side of it not the nuts and bolts easy to define side of it.
Imagine how much fun it would have been if Some new bosses had moved into MC that required new strats, Onyxia's sisters could have moved into her cave etc. etc. Why hasn't the king of stormwind come back? There are so many thing that could be done a tiny bit at a time that would make people feel like they were slowly changing the world. But I'm sure some dev could come here and explain why it would be inefficient. And I percieve that as the problem. They still really don't seem to get that the Vanilla wow was such a success do to the Artistic side of it not the nuts and bolts easy to define side of it.
I'm not sure if its the cartoony graphics, bad quest stories og the overall sense of humour (sort of a nothing is serious attitude). But in WoW I just didnt care about the story or why i was doing stuff.
In LOTRO i care about the story and actually read all the text the game has to offer. For me it's just a much more immersive experience and i cant imagine ever going back to "the old WoW style" world again.
In LOTRO i care about the story and actually read all the text the game has to offer. For me it's just a much more immersive experience and i cant imagine ever going back to "the old WoW style" world again.
# posted by : 12/2/08 23:05
: 12/2/08 23:05
I like Pidge's idea, about NPCs reacting differently to you based on your Rep and past achievements. Alliance's Jailbreak quest is one of the coolest temporary World Changing quests and EVERYONE in Stormwind knows when it's happening...not that it happens very often any more. Hmm, I have a Warlock in his high 40s, maybe I'll level him, just to do that series for old time's sake :)
On a lowbie Alt not too long ago I got together with a couple of other players to take down Hogger. We also needed Gnoll Armbands so we stuck together until everyone had all the Armbands they needed, and during that time we probably killed Hogger four more times. I'm not saying Hogger should stay dead when you kill him, and I also hate long respawn timers on Quest Mobs, especially where both factions need the same Mob. Aah, there's probably no easy way around the Hogger zombie popping back up barely seconds after you've killed him. Obviously I never played EQ where some Quest Mobs respawned once every hour, or something like that. You can say all you want about the treadmill grind of WoW, but at least you rarely have to wait more than 10 minutes for a Quest Mob to spawn.
"Anyone seen the Defias Messenger?"
"Sorry. I just killed him :("
"Ok. Guess I'll come back in an hour..."
On a lowbie Alt not too long ago I got together with a couple of other players to take down Hogger. We also needed Gnoll Armbands so we stuck together until everyone had all the Armbands they needed, and during that time we probably killed Hogger four more times. I'm not saying Hogger should stay dead when you kill him, and I also hate long respawn timers on Quest Mobs, especially where both factions need the same Mob. Aah, there's probably no easy way around the Hogger zombie popping back up barely seconds after you've killed him. Obviously I never played EQ where some Quest Mobs respawned once every hour, or something like that. You can say all you want about the treadmill grind of WoW, but at least you rarely have to wait more than 10 minutes for a Quest Mob to spawn.
"Anyone seen the Defias Messenger?"
"Sorry. I just killed him :("
"Ok. Guess I'll come back in an hour..."
In WoW 1.0 you had to favorably impress the Fulbogs to pass though their cave unmolested.
And there is the Skettis and Ogri'la areas. As your rep improves, the NPC say different things, and the quest text changes. IIRC the Ogres in Blade's Edge moved from hostile to neutral for me too.
Now that I've completed all of the Nagrand Quest chains, I see the ghosts.
No idea if that will be carried into WotLK for wider implementation though.
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And there is the Skettis and Ogri'la areas. As your rep improves, the NPC say different things, and the quest text changes. IIRC the Ogres in Blade's Edge moved from hostile to neutral for me too.
Now that I've completed all of the Nagrand Quest chains, I see the ghosts.
No idea if that will be carried into WotLK for wider implementation though.
# posted by : 13/2/08 14:42
: 13/2/08 14:42<< Home
