And why are there no tanking weapons buyable with badges (or via PvP)?
 

Yup. That's all I have to say. Yup.
 

I would make a side comment....
Speaking of PvP vs PvE and Hardcore vs Casual gaming.....

Taking into consideration that a casual gamer (like me) doesn't cenessarily play less than a raider but just differently.....

Often happens that a casual gamer is more involved in many different activities instead of focusing only in one direction. For example when I login I might do some BG or get called for an heroic or whatever. But I never focus on only one objective. So I end with some honor, some badges and so on. Nothing usefull to complete a set or whatever :)

May be that with 2.4 changes I will be able to get some more equip even thought it will be PvP one.


Other topic that is very different but still related to 2.4 chamges...
It's about patches done to AV.

Don't you think that now it's really unbalanced and easy for Allies?
Not that before was balanced but now I think it's even worse.

fact 1:
Bunkers and towers. If you get inside a tower, guards won't shoot at you. So you can flag with guards a few feet away without problems. In bunkers, killing guards is a must

fact 2:
Horde has only one way to enter inside enemy camp. Doing so is always exposed for a long way to archers from both bunkers. Also reaching the flag, it's really near to other npc that can get aggroed.

Allies instead can enter horde base by normal entrance or jumping the fence on the side. Also on entering our base they don't aggro and can get very easily on the second part of horde base. Once there eventually they can just run near the flag (only a couple archers eventually would shoot them) and get in safe position. Also flag has only standard npc protecting and no other npcs that could generate aggro.

A non stealther can't get inside ally base without certain death. The same isn't true for horde base that is defenseless.

So 2 random ally can take horde base. Very easy.

fact 3:
horde base flag (relief) is near a small slope. And there's LOS issues there and is easy to take advantage of it to take the flag.

fact 4:
allies have all their targets (towers, miniboss and so on) in a virtual line. They don't need to split in different groups

fact 5:
now horde is even at a far more distance at beginning. I hadn't tested but seems that now allies can get at objectives before horde can. Just a fact, I had been in trouble to defend Galv as it's hard to get there before allies.


considerations....
Well, I don't discuss Bliz decision to move back horde starting point. But doing so, and not fixing other issues..... gave too much advantage to allies.
 

The end game for most has always been a choice between raids and/or PvP. PvE being the main Blizzard focal point. Now they are making PvP more accessible by allowing those progressing in PvE to gain PvP gear. So this change makes PvP more accessible and opens up more options for players - it doesn't force them to PvP, it gives them to option by allowing them to be more more viable in PvP.

If PvE awards were given in PvP that could allow players to bypass PvE content.

Allowing players to bypass PvE content because their PvE gear earned via PvP is the opposite of what it looks like they were trying to do.
 

back in the day when people were arguing that pve players were dominating pvp because raid gear was superior to pvp gear blizzard proposed a solution: resilience. Without a high value of it you get killed in pvp so pve gear sucks in pvp.

Umm, aren't they undoing that entirely now? Why not just get rid of resilience gear and make pve gear superior to pvp gear again? What's the difference?
 

I look at it a different way Tobold... If you can buy PvP gear from participating in PvE but can't buy PvE gear from participating in PvP, it shows that Blizzard holds PvE gear in higher regard because of the rarity.

While this new BoJ for PvP gear system will transition raiders into PvP more easily, they aren't allowing PvPers to transition the other way around.

To me, it seems as though Blizzard still holds PvE raiders in higher regard.
 

Here is my guess:

PvE content takes longer time to make than PvP content. Blizzard have realized that they're currently behind schedule wrt PvE content.
Instead of having raiders leave WoW because they're "done", Blizzard now makes it easier for them to do PvP while Wrath of the Lich King is being completed.
 

You can use PvP armor in PvE. The most important stat in PvE is the power stat, which is also important in PvP. It's roughly equivalent to armor a step below. i.e.

S1 ~ D3
S2 ~ T4
S3 ~ T5

But you can't go the other way. Stamina and Resilience are too important to PvP.

This change just allows people who spend the majority of their time in PvE to participate in PvP as well. Note how the best Arena gear is not available through PvE, and PvP gear is not equal to the best PvE gear (for PvE).
 

I think Blizzard is giving PvE people the change to use their 4000 badges of justice for something PvP related, rather than gear that offers slightly better stats.

Too bad for PvP'ers that Blizzard is so biased in favor of PvE that we aren't given the chance to purchase PvE crap with our honor points and BG marks.

Personally, I think they are trying to direct people into PvP, as you can only do the Magisters Terrace instance a few times before you want to go and hang yourself. And once the rep is farmed and the little gimmicky world event is over, it all meant nothing.

Just another rep to grind for gear and abilities.

Just another mile on the treadmill of WoW.
 

PVP takes less dev time.

so You are probably correct. They'd be in heave if everyone would just do arenas...
 

One thing that I don't think anyone has brought up is that once you get to BT/Hyjal, raiders often wear pvp gear to boost their health on boss fights. In my opinion, that is something we should never have to do - but at least now there's a system in place to help us get that gear other then pvping and pveing. Obviously its not completely necessary to wear pvp gear in pve, but it makes things easier.
 

PVP gear for badges of Justice? I thought it was only available through Tokens? What seasons are available through Badges and how many?
 

Well, IMO, as I've said before...
TBC is done. Patch 2.4 is it.

And once people tire of (or complete) the Sunwell Offensive, and the 3.0 WotLK compatibility patch comes down, then Blizzard expects that raiding will dry up and die like it did when the WoW 2.0 compatibility patch dropped in. PvP will be it.
And of course Blizz wouldn't want the poor raiders in T4/T5/T6 to be at a disadvantage in the BGs and Arena... :)

I'm enjoying the unfolding of the Sunwell Offensive more than I expected. I'm farming the rep and the gold, and basically dumping the gold back into profession skilling and funding for alts (mounts and their professions). I'll join my wife in the BGs since she wants one last Vindicator's item, and after that I'll probably not be in PvP much until after WotLK is in place.

The one-way offering of PvP epics from PvE sources is bad design and breaks game balance. It's a tacit concession that yes, this PvE game really is all about raiders and raiding.
But let's face it - WoW is a PvE game with PvP kind of patched in.
You can't fully gear out a player from only PvP, since you'll want PvE glyphs, crafted items, and gold to fund your enchants and gems. And PvP vendors sell no glyphs (oddly, the PvE Sunwell faction vendor sells the PvP head glyph), no enchants, no crafting recipes, and only a limited number of gems. You don't get crafting recipes or even green drops by looting players in PvP.

IMO, the PvP in WoW really is fun -- if you ignore that it's just poorly-balanced kluge tacked onto a PvE game.
 

Yeah, I have to agree with snafzg and disagree with you. If Blizzard was trying to push people into PvP, they WOULD let you buy PvE gear with honor.

And to encourage more off-topicness, in response to jack-o-lantern...I think maybe your facts are also being colored by your personal experiences. Because I'm Alliance and I'm not happy with the changes either. We were winning 90% of the time before, but starting further back is making the Horde play D more and helping them win. I personally don't think the changes truly unbalanced things, it just cleared the atmosphere so to speak, and made people adjust their play. Some have made that adjustment, some haven't.

As an aside, it is humorous to me that AV, despite all the changes over time, has remained essentially the same. Read the little book they give you when you do the level 51 AV quests sometime, it describes how AV works (and has worked) since forever. It talks about how the Alliance base is easy to penetrate but the core is tough. The Horde core is soft but the exterior is tough. The strategies for each side have been clear from the beginning; Horde defense is best applied at the tough exterior (IBGY chokepoint), Alliance defense at the tough core (SP bridge chokepoint). It has always been that way, and may always be that way.

That's why I don't like the changes as Alliance, because more Horde end up entangled in the battle at IB instead of being able to ride through, and games take longer. I mean, I enjoyed the epic AV battles of old, but with the marks system in place now it's not quite as exciting to be staring a long epic struggle in the face anymore.
 

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no you miss the fact that more and more of the casual players are just giving up on PVE and so they are letting the PVE players get PVP gear so they can compete. I think blizzard in drooling over the fact that thier PVP numbers are so high.

Being in the corporate world I envision this scenario where the devs have been constantly beaten up in meetings because such a small number of people are using the content that takes the most time. Now suddenly they get to start throwing out big gains in PVP and make the case they are doing something right. Because in the end its always about the numbers.

I still think every dynamic right now, from War, to the casuals PVP'ing for epics because they can on a flexible schedule,(even when they'd rather raid), to the fact that PVP takes almost no development hours is creating an illusion that PVP is what everyone wants.

Which is ironic because most of the rumors I'm hearing about WAR lead me to believe they are delaying to fix thier PVE side of the game
 

I hear 2 messages from this:

1) PvP gear is for the people who want to advance their character and have nice matching sets but cannot or will not spend the time raiding. The new transformations then seem (as others have posted) that it is Blizzard's way to let the elite raiders who want to PvP be able to get that gear as well.

2) PvE raiding gear is for the ultra-dedicated raider. If others can get that gear except by defeating XYZ dungeon, all of a sudden the raiding crowd doesn't feel superior anymore. Badges bring high level PvE gear possibilities to the less dedicated/willing PvEer, but really the costs are so high you are nuts to obtain them except via raiding. I know for me it puts more pressure on me to raid.

All of this reminds me of a line from a favorite movie: "Once everyone is super, then no one will be." When everyone is super it makes the game more about how you play and not how long and what krud you have.
 

I guess its because PvP content is cheap to produce. Good, Balanced Raid Encounters are expnsive and time consuming. Steer everyone to PVP. and remove costs.
 

I really had a good laugh when I saw the pvp-gear at sunwell.

If you start an arena-team without having pvp-epics, your rating will go to the cellar in no time. After that you usually start getting those epics. You soon notice that S3 is only worth about 100-150 resilience, so you need the rest out of BGs/sunwell. To be precise: You need all of it and you need the best. There is no point in getting s1 oder s2 equivalent bg-items, you need the s3-equivalent. Your arena rating will start rising again when you have 300-400 resilience.
In short: In arena, the game begins when you have all of the best equip, everything before that is slaughter, even on beginner level.

But at sunwell, Blizz gives you the chance to purchase s1 and s2-equivalent stuff for badges of justice. If you want the real deal, you have to pay with tokens from the new 25man instance.
And nobody in his right mind would spend those on items he can get simply by grinding BGs a bit.