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Tuesday, September 08, 2026
A German commenting on German politics
Germany is a federal republic, consisting of 16 “lands”. You can think of them a bit like the US states, but relatively speaking they have fewer powers and less independence than the US states have. In one of these lands, Sachsen-Anhalt, there was an election this Sunday, and the right wing party AfD got 44% of the votes. Thus you might have seen global headlines about how the Nazis are back in power in Germany. Which is utter nonsense. I have repeatedly said on this blog that if you call everybody slightly to the right of yourself a nazi or fascist, you end up losing all linguistic tools to differentiate between parties on the right.
The AfD occupies a curious position on that right wing spectrum. On the one side they are extreme enough that the German intelligence service in charge of keeping an eye on extremists classifies them as “validated right extremists”, a classification that means that the intelligence service will continue watching them. On the other side they aren’t extreme enough to be declared illegal as a party, as several previous right wing parties in Germany have been. And while of course there are national peculiarities and things aren’t easy to classify, the AfD resembles US MAGA Republicans under Trump a lot more than they resemble German National-Socialists under Hitler.
A few other truths to know to understand the situation is that the AfD did not get an absolute majority in the election, and could only form a local government with the help of others. And even if they managed that, a tenous hold on a single land gives them very little actual power over Germany. If you think that Germany is fascist, you’d still have to admit that it is comparatively less fascist than the USA, which should put things into perspective.
Of course, if you are politically left of center, or center-left as I am, any MAGA-like party taking control anywhere is bad news. But there are 7 European countries were such far right parties are part of the national goverment, and far right parties play a large political role in basically all European countries to some degree. Germany is further away from the far right in national power than for example France is. History and false leaps of imagination might provide sensationalist headlines, but in the end that is just click bait.
The more realistic trajectory has already been observed in the past few years in countries like Hungary or Poland. The growth of right wing populist parties is a consequence of growing inequality, with the “left behind” demographics voting for the populists after feeling left behind by all the other parties. That model then breaks down as soon as the right wing populists come to power, and their voters realize that things aren’t getting any better for them. Viktor Orban lost power this year. In the US the current discussion is not whether the Republicans can win the mid term elections, but only how badly they are going to lose.
If you think that German Nazis will soon invade Russia, you might be in for a strange surprise: The AfD is Russia-friendly to the point of being suspected to be in Putin’s pocket. It is the democratic center-right and center-left parties that changed the German constitution to enable more military spending and increased armament against Russia.
- posted by Tobold @ 10:22 AM Permanent Link
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"The growth of right wing populist parties is a consequence of growing inequality, with the “left behind” demographics voting for the populists after feeling left behind by all the other parties."
"First red then brown" and "beefsteak Nazis" (they were red on the inside) was a thing back in the day too. And of course Mussolini started off as a radical socialist.
"First red then brown" and "beefsteak Nazis" (they were red on the inside) was a thing back in the day too. And of course Mussolini started off as a radical socialist.
# posted by 
: 8/9/26 15:03
: 8/9/26 15:03
From what I've seen the equation of AFD to Nazi's on my side of the pond is because of various clips of AFD supporters spouting Holocaust denial talking points and throwing up the Sieghiel.
I would imagine most regular AFD supporters are not like that though.
I would imagine most regular AFD supporters are not like that though.
I’ve seen various clips of Elon Musk doing the Sieg Heil salute. But in any party that gets 44% of the vote, you can be certain that there is a huge difference between the most extreme members and the average member. And the other side will always try to paint all of them as the most extreme. If you believe social media, US voters in the mid terms have the choice between fascists and communists. I just don’t believe that this is a good way to understand politics.
I have seen various clips of both right and left politician doing something similar enough to the sieg heil salute if you squint in the right way. That does not mean they intended it to be seen that way.
As for not having enough language left to describe people that are actually nazis may be they believe they do not exist , or may be they don't care.
At this point the gap between the crowd that thinks words are just "it means just what I choose it to mean" and the rest is so wide I just ignore them as bigots.
As for not having enough language left to describe people that are actually nazis may be they believe they do not exist , or may be they don't care.
At this point the gap between the crowd that thinks words are just "it means just what I choose it to mean" and the rest is so wide I just ignore them as bigots.
# posted by : 9/9/26 09:44
: 9/9/26 09:44
What people mean when they call somebody a Nazi is somebody who has sympathies or political afinities to Hitler and the National-Socialist party that ruled Germany from 1933 to 1945. And yes, if you hear Trump dreaming about conquering the other nations on the North American continent, you can’t help but see similarities to the extreme nationalism of Germany during that time.
But neither Trump nor any of the European right wing populist parties are even remotely suggesting anything like the Holocaust. Nobody plans to gas millions of people for their “racial inferiority”. Wanting to send immigrants back to their country of origin is not morally equivalent of wanting to kill all Jews.
Being technically an immigrant myself, and in view of European demographics, I am quite in favor of immigration. But I don’t think it is helpful to put everybody who is against immigration on the same moral level as mass murderers. And European right wing extremists in different countries are at most planning to leave the European Community, rather than conquering Europe.
But neither Trump nor any of the European right wing populist parties are even remotely suggesting anything like the Holocaust. Nobody plans to gas millions of people for their “racial inferiority”. Wanting to send immigrants back to their country of origin is not morally equivalent of wanting to kill all Jews.
Being technically an immigrant myself, and in view of European demographics, I am quite in favor of immigration. But I don’t think it is helpful to put everybody who is against immigration on the same moral level as mass murderers. And European right wing extremists in different countries are at most planning to leave the European Community, rather than conquering Europe.
Yeah. As an example here is a video thats gotten quite a few views over here. https://youtu.be/l2SjWowpynY
Now the thing is you could go to any Republican rally and interview folks and likely run into the same talking points. On the flip side you could also go to some leftist event, interview people and find clips of people spouting nonsense too.
Now the thing is you could go to any Republican rally and interview folks and likely run into the same talking points. On the flip side you could also go to some leftist event, interview people and find clips of people spouting nonsense too.
I always suspect that the people making these videos deliberately only talk to the most weird looking participants, interview 100 of them, and then cut out the 90 most normal sounding to get a story.
Oh for sure. In a way its almost self selection too because just by going to a political event you are already bound to be around a type of person who would actually bother going to a political event. Just by that fact you've already skewed the chances of interviewing a more radical leaning person in your favor.
I've voted in every election I've been able to and follow politics pretty closely yet I've never attended a single political event and most voters dont.
I've voted in every election I've been able to and follow politics pretty closely yet I've never attended a single political event and most voters dont.
@Tobold I think a lot of people are aware of the fact that no one starts out with a political agenda of: Kill All Jews, or, Kill all Muslims or whatever. The concern is that what starts with "immigrants are eating cats and dogs in Ohio" is the kind of rhetoric that moves the overton window closer to "Maybe we should put them in Alligator Alcatraz," and then eventually "Let's just gas them." It's not the notion that they are there yet, it's that the rhetoric is pointing the direction and everyone can see it, both those who fear such movement and those who desire such movement.
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