Thursday, March 02, 2006
Skill? What skills?
I was thinking about what skills it takes to be successful in World of Warcraft. Or to be more precise, what skills am I missing if I can't beat Nefarian easily?
One skill certainly needed in any real-time computer game is eye-hand coordination, combined with quick thinking. You must see, to take a healer example, that one of your group members health bar is going down, decide quickly on which spell to heal him with, and then quickly press the right buttons or do the right clicks to target him and cast your healing spell on him. Now a MMORPG like WoW certainly needs less eye-hand coordination than a first-person shooter, but still it is something that is needed. I don't think that this is a limiting factor for me. Okay, I'm 41, and a teenager would certainly beat me in Counterstrike. But in a MMORPG I have a lot of practice in taking decisions fast, and pressing the right buttons quick enough. A younger guy might shave off a couple of milliseconds in the button mashing part, but I'm probably better at taking the *right* decision in a split second.
Another skill needed is strategy and tactics. This is the area which I enjoy most. And in a 5-man group everybody is involved in a major way in this. A 40-man group also needs good strategy and tactics, but to succeed there should be only ONE strategy. Which means that not all 40 raid members can be involved in strategic decisions. They are all involved in tactical decisions of the moment, but if all goes well, these decisions become routine pretty quickly. We have some good strategists in our guild, plus information that other guilds published on how to kill certain bosses, and I don't think it is lack of strategical or tactical skills that is stopping us.
The next skill on my list is organization. That is a difficult one, because the better the organization, the lower the opportunities to make individual decisions. Good organization is efficient as hell in getting results, but not always the most fun. And again it is obvious that not all 40 people in a raid can organize things, there has to be one raid leader, maybe some officers organizing sub-systems like the healing, and a lot of people following instructions. I must admit my guild certainly has deficiencies in the organizational department. That is a natural consequence of trying to be a "nice" guild. Military organization and being nice doesn't go together well. What I've seen from the application requirements of some of the uber guilds makes me think that they are a lot less nice, for example if you go for 3 weeks on a holiday on the beach and don't participate in raids during that time, you get kicked out. Mandatory raid participation improves the class mix for raids a lot, but it isn't something I could live with. Nevertheless my guild isn't a total chaos either. We do get our raids full, with at least a reasonable class mix, and very few early drop-outs. We are *much* better organized than a pickup raid group, just not quite as good as a hardcore guild.
Which brings me to the last "skill" on my list. Well, if you want to classify it as a skill, you'd have to call it tenacity. But effectively it is simply the time spent doing certain things in the game. That is doubly rewarded in WoW raids: With know-how, and with epic gear. Part of our failure to kill the first boss in AQ20 was certainly due to nobody from us having killed him before. Once we have downed him a few times, it will become a lot easier, with everybody knowing what to do. But another part of the failure was that among the 20 people trying this, we had less epic gear than a 5-man group from a hardcore guild.
Kyroc was level 58 when on this raid (now he is 59), with a meta-level of maybe 60. I will get to character level 60 soon, but getting to meta-level of lets say 63 will take a lot longer. This takes longer for my guild than for an uber guild. If you have 40 members, each of which attends every raid, you get epics a lot faster than if you have 80 members, each of which attends half of the raids. And we also find ourselves at the wrong end of a snowball effect: An uber guild kills more bosses per raid, and thus gets more epics, which then help them kill even faster. We are still a lot weaker, thus we kill only 2 or 3 bosses per raid, thus we get less epics and increase in force only slowly.
Bad gear is also a consequence of a bad underlying strategy on the level of guild events. We have a lot of characters, like my priest, who are still running around with green or lower level blue items, and who don't have their complete blue "class set" from places like Scholomance or Stratholme. The intelligent thing to do would be to organize lots of raids with these guild members, accompanied by people with better gear, and just breeze through these dungeons in 10-man raids in very short time, farming blue gear for the less well equipped guild members. What we do instead is running before we learned to walk, taking "new" level 58-60 people to Molten Core or even Ahn'Qiraj. That of course weakens the raid group. The problem is getting the better equipped guild members to agree to do "boring", "too easy" places like Scholomance or Stratholme in a raid group. There is some interest in doing these in 5-man groups, because as 5-man these are still challenging and thus fun. But the people who have been to Strat/Scholo when they had just hit 60, now consider farming these places for other guild member's blue gear to be too boring.
As I explained with the meta-level concept, not all level 60's are the same meta-level, which is the level at which they are effectively acting. Unfortunately it isn't that easy to see another characters meta-level, you would need to know not only all of his gear, but also his talent specializations to judge whether his gear matches his talents. For example Raslebol is defensively specced, and even if he would wield an epic 2h-weapon, he still wouldn't deal much damage, because he doesn't have the talents to support DPS. Thus the people organizing guild events often only see that there are lots of "level 60" available for Molten Core or higher raids, without considering that of these "level 60" there might still be quite a number who would first need to get their blue class set from the lesser dungeons, before being really efficient in Molten Core.
Of course that is not a fault particular to my guild, it is a flaw in game design. The normal leveling ends at 60, and is replaced by a much slower, and much less visible alternative advancement by gear improvement. And coming back to the subject of skills, this alternative advancement is often very little skill-based, and very much based on just time spent farming. It would be possible to farm more efficiently by organizing guild events to the dungeons the guild can farm easily, but in the end the gear of everybody comes down to how many hours he played.
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I liked Dabiri's interview on the Beeb yesterday. They made a point to say that they designed WoW with all kinds of play-styles in mind. The player who grinds endlessly, whatever we might have to say about them, is a well established player type in MMO's. The epic grinding caters to those players.
I actually think the end game is set up perfectly for these sorts of gamers. Lets face it - they really don't give a crap about the content do they? They burn through to the end of the game in record time and then spend month after month on the same friggin' hamster wheel.
I think as long as WoW keeps providing the grinders with their hamster wheels, and keeps releasing new standard content ahead of the pace at which the average/casual gamer can keep up with they'll do just fine in the long run.
I actually think the end game is set up perfectly for these sorts of gamers. Lets face it - they really don't give a crap about the content do they? They burn through to the end of the game in record time and then spend month after month on the same friggin' hamster wheel.
I think as long as WoW keeps providing the grinders with their hamster wheels, and keeps releasing new standard content ahead of the pace at which the average/casual gamer can keep up with they'll do just fine in the long run.
Tobold, I would add one more skill set to your list.
You mention strategy and tactics in the context of a group or raid. I would call this "raid competence" and say it covers the overall, broad strategy your raid (or group) utilizes in tackling bosses.
An additional skill set is "individual competence." This covers individuals' personal level of competence and ability in being able to effectively perform as a member of their class. Priests healing well - as in effectively, when they need to, not overhealing, not running out of mana too fast, not getting aggro, etc. Warriors - being able to effectively hold the enemy's attention, more gear based in terms of %-chance to dodge and parry and block, aiming enemies away from the raid, picking up adds, etc.
I mention this because last night I put together a PUG (pickup group) for UBRS. A friend opened the door for us and away we went! Unfortunately, the individuals in the raid were not individually competent and I only realized this after we'd killed The Beast and were nearly done. Our 2nd Warrior wasn't off-tanking. He would just attack whatever our MT was on and would let our Healers and Casters die to the adds. Various people were using AE spells and breaking our sheeps left and right, including the Paladin with Consecrate and even the stupid Mages. All-in-all, we finished the instance by brute force, not effective strategy or tactics. It was incredibly frustrating, especially when I was explaining to the 2nd Warrior (both in tells and raid chat) that if 2 enemies were unsheeped he should be tanking the 2nd.
Unfortunately, a lot of individual or personal competence is innate. It is not often taught, though it *can* be learned. I generally find that the more flexible classes (Paladins, Druids) are a bit better since they fulfill a variety of rolls, though you still run into that truly inflexible idiot occasionally (e.g. the Feral Druid who refuses to heal anyone).
But teaching a Warrior how to OT? Palm-forehead smack.
AE with sheeps around? *sigh* Some days it just doesn't pay to form or join a PUG. (Though I at least got my Drak Blood for my Ony key!)
You mention strategy and tactics in the context of a group or raid. I would call this "raid competence" and say it covers the overall, broad strategy your raid (or group) utilizes in tackling bosses.
An additional skill set is "individual competence." This covers individuals' personal level of competence and ability in being able to effectively perform as a member of their class. Priests healing well - as in effectively, when they need to, not overhealing, not running out of mana too fast, not getting aggro, etc. Warriors - being able to effectively hold the enemy's attention, more gear based in terms of %-chance to dodge and parry and block, aiming enemies away from the raid, picking up adds, etc.
I mention this because last night I put together a PUG (pickup group) for UBRS. A friend opened the door for us and away we went! Unfortunately, the individuals in the raid were not individually competent and I only realized this after we'd killed The Beast and were nearly done. Our 2nd Warrior wasn't off-tanking. He would just attack whatever our MT was on and would let our Healers and Casters die to the adds. Various people were using AE spells and breaking our sheeps left and right, including the Paladin with Consecrate and even the stupid Mages. All-in-all, we finished the instance by brute force, not effective strategy or tactics. It was incredibly frustrating, especially when I was explaining to the 2nd Warrior (both in tells and raid chat) that if 2 enemies were unsheeped he should be tanking the 2nd.
Unfortunately, a lot of individual or personal competence is innate. It is not often taught, though it *can* be learned. I generally find that the more flexible classes (Paladins, Druids) are a bit better since they fulfill a variety of rolls, though you still run into that truly inflexible idiot occasionally (e.g. the Feral Druid who refuses to heal anyone).
But teaching a Warrior how to OT? Palm-forehead smack.
AE with sheeps around? *sigh* Some days it just doesn't pay to form or join a PUG. (Though I at least got my Drak Blood for my Ony key!)
I agree, individual competence should also factor into meta-level. Unfortunately you can be very incompetent and grind to 60. And even join raids, eventually getting the best epic loot in the game!
My friend and I joke about a mutual acquaintance who plays a paladin and still doesn't understand the difference between DPS and max damage, despite repeated explanations. He's now level 40 and will hit 60 eventually...
My friend and I joke about a mutual acquaintance who plays a paladin and still doesn't understand the difference between DPS and max damage, despite repeated explanations. He's now level 40 and will hit 60 eventually...
Monday night I played D&D with my usual group. Since all of us play WoW, one girl playing with us who had never played computer games before now also started with WoW. So to help her a bit we asked her to log on, to have a look at her character. She had a level 8 warrior, with quite normal equipment and more money than you would expect. This turned out to be because by level 8 she hadn't found the trainer yet, and hadn't learned a single new ability. And the one ability, Heroic Strike, which you start out with on your hotkey bar, she wasn't using. I don't know how far you can level like that, but at least until level 8 its now proven to work. :)
So I fully agree on personal mastery of your class being an important skill, I had carelessly bundled that into tactical skills.
WoW being relatively easy results in people getting far without having that skill. But that is not something that I would change. I didn't really like the Everquest concept of "either you play perfectly, or you die horribly and lose a lot of time". It *is* an efficient way to teach you, but it isn't a very agreeable one, especially if you consider MMORPGs as a form of entertainment.
But as Changedx so correctly remarks, people without skill can still join a raid, keep their head low during the fights, and still win epic loot, as long as there aren't too many of them in the raid. That is one reason why I prefer 5-man groups, where everybody needs to be skilled.
So I fully agree on personal mastery of your class being an important skill, I had carelessly bundled that into tactical skills.
WoW being relatively easy results in people getting far without having that skill. But that is not something that I would change. I didn't really like the Everquest concept of "either you play perfectly, or you die horribly and lose a lot of time". It *is* an efficient way to teach you, but it isn't a very agreeable one, especially if you consider MMORPGs as a form of entertainment.
But as Changedx so correctly remarks, people without skill can still join a raid, keep their head low during the fights, and still win epic loot, as long as there aren't too many of them in the raid. That is one reason why I prefer 5-man groups, where everybody needs to be skilled.
A priest without "ClickHeal" doesn't make it long in raids -_-
Depending on how the healing is setup it is very noticeable when a priest "misses their turn to heal".
Depending on how the healing is setup it is very noticeable when a priest "misses their turn to heal".
"ClickHeal" is exactly what I am talking about when I say that a big raid doesn't necessarily need much player skill. I mean, follow the others and repeatedly spam one button, with a macro deciding your best cause of action? I don't see where you would need skill for that.
The raid leader needs skill, the main tank needs skill, and depending on the specific boss, specific classes need to play well in that encounter. But some people in the raid can as well be replaced by a bot.
The raid leader needs skill, the main tank needs skill, and depending on the specific boss, specific classes need to play well in that encounter. But some people in the raid can as well be replaced by a bot.
First of all, I recommend finding another game. There's so much more to MMORPGs than WOW. Second, the actual skill required to play MMORPGs has fallen since Meridian 59. Basically, in Meridian 59 you would choose some spells that would go into your spellbook, and you would cast by double-clicking and clicking your target, and then you would hammer on the CTRL button to perform melee attacks. That took some skill. I think it could get even harder than that, say add a need to block manually or have a hot bar for the spells then having some FPS style target on the screen you have to point at an enemy and press ctrl or alt, but it was definitely harder than just pressing an AA button and then using some abilities every now and then.
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