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Sunday, May 20, 2007
Day and night
I'm not really sure I like the day and night cycle of Lord of the Rings Online. What I do like about it is that it makes a difference, and thus feels real. There are even a couple of quests that only work at night. And with 3 hours to a complete LotRO day, you never need to wait more than one-and-a-half hours for the other part of the cycle. I never liked the World of Warcraft day and night cycle, where the time in game was the same as the time in the real world, but night was a light as day, just having more blueish colors, and it didn't really matter.
On the negative side the night in LotRO is too dark sometimes, especially if you want to go exploring. You know the landscape is beautiful, but you just can't see it because of the dark. And it's dark for over one hour, which can be annoying. Your personal torch, which you can activate with Alt+F10, isn't illuminating more than a small radius around you. And you can't see other people's torches. Wouldn't it be cool if you could see other people moving in the dark by the lights of their torches? Well, if it gets too bad I can fiddle with my gamma settings, but I don't feel it's optimal.
If you designed a MMORPG, how would you handle the day and night cycle? How many real world hours per virtual world day? How much difference between light and dark? And how would you like light sources to work?
- posted by Tobold @ 1:38 AM Permanent Link
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I think i would do it exactly like in lotro. Your monitor brightness must be set really low or something if you're having trouble seing at nighttime. Or are you playing in a insanely bright lit room maybe (with 1000W spots)? :P
# posted by 
: 20/5/07 00:51
: 20/5/07 00:51
Actually, EQ handled it best with wisp.
Back in 99, my first real treasure item was a greater lightstone.
It was wild, because I got it as a newb, but kept it longer than any magic item I ever got.
It sure did make travelling from Blackburrow to Everfrost a lot easier.
Back in 99, my first real treasure item was a greater lightstone.
It was wild, because I got it as a newb, but kept it longer than any magic item I ever got.
It sure did make travelling from Blackburrow to Everfrost a lot easier.
# posted by : 20/5/07 02:52
: 20/5/07 02:52
I think the cycle should be 2/3 day, 1/3 night, simply because it feels like it is dark all the time. In fact my fiance always wants to log when it gets dark because he can't see as well and the game is more beautiful in the daytime. LOTRO's rapid cycle promotes shorter play periods. Also fiddling with the brightness/gamma really gimps the visual quality.
# posted by : 20/5/07 14:44
: 20/5/07 14:44
I prefer the concept of a dark night. I gives you more freedom as a designer to create different moods with your missions and set up mechanics that involve taking advantage of the light. Like you said, having to navigate by torch light is interesting, but if you can't see other peoples torches it's kinda pointless. Cresting a hill and seeing dozens of little lights moving in the distance gives a great sense of activity and scale.
The day night cycle itself is fairly limiting on a 24 hours clock. You end up frustrating people who are online at the same time every day. The total day length should be just longer then the time it takes to cross by foot the largest unbroken zone in the game. This ensures that any major amount of travel will be accompanied by a day-to-night or night-to-day transition and the really long trips have you riding through the whole night to reach your destination. I think three hours is too short, something closer to 6 or 8 for an entire "day" would be better. The day/night cycle should also shift based on the "season" so that night lasts longer during the winter and vice versa.
The day night cycle itself is fairly limiting on a 24 hours clock. You end up frustrating people who are online at the same time every day. The total day length should be just longer then the time it takes to cross by foot the largest unbroken zone in the game. This ensures that any major amount of travel will be accompanied by a day-to-night or night-to-day transition and the really long trips have you riding through the whole night to reach your destination. I think three hours is too short, something closer to 6 or 8 for an entire "day" would be better. The day/night cycle should also shift based on the "season" so that night lasts longer during the winter and vice versa.
# posted by : 20/5/07 18:35
: 20/5/07 18:35
I see this as what is your target audience? Are you looking for the smaller hardcore gamers or the more casual one who play less than 2 hours a day.
3 hours light & 1 hour night is a good balance for most.
As for the amount of light during night time should be similar to caves/dungeons. You "feel" the darkness. Some good examples are the Baldur’s Gate and Dungeon Siege games.
3 hours light & 1 hour night is a good balance for most.
As for the amount of light during night time should be similar to caves/dungeons. You "feel" the darkness. Some good examples are the Baldur’s Gate and Dungeon Siege games.
# posted by : 21/5/07 02:58
: 21/5/07 02:58
i'd say, since it's virtual, make it dynamic ;)
if there are a lot of people online on that server it's day, when there are not so many people online, make it night. you can make a couple of tresholds for that to include dawn and rise ofcourse.
would be fun when there is a login-server issue ^^
if there are a lot of people online on that server it's day, when there are not so many people online, make it night. you can make a couple of tresholds for that to include dawn and rise ofcourse.
would be fun when there is a login-server issue ^^
I play another game that has a night and day effect on quest too. It's kinda cool because you get to employ a different strategy.
# posted by : 21/5/07 10:25
: 21/5/07 10:25
Calibrate your monitor mate.
As an amateur photographer I use Photoshop all the time, and it's really important that what I see on my screen matches that what others should see on theirs.
I haven't had any problem seeing in the dark, except in very dark wooded areas, which you would expect.
As an amateur photographer I use Photoshop all the time, and it's really important that what I see on my screen matches that what others should see on theirs.
I haven't had any problem seeing in the dark, except in very dark wooded areas, which you would expect.
Sorry, I also meant to say that nvidia drivers include a Monitor Calibration tool. That should be good enough to calibrate your monitor for gaming :)
For non-nvidia users I would assume there is an equivalent. If not, there are plenty of web sites out there that have tips on what to do :)
For non-nvidia users I would assume there is an equivalent. If not, there are plenty of web sites out there that have tips on what to do :)
Nighttime is too dark and my monitor is calibrated. All other games with darkness are fine. They should make it 25% nighttime and 75% daytime in a 3 hour cycle.
# posted by : 21/5/07 15:51
: 21/5/07 15:51
I didn't realize I had the gamma up on my other monitor (I must have done it while trying to get through dungeons in WoW) until I got my new computer to play LOTRO on and have a different monitor. I could not see at night at all. It is just ridiculous. So I set my gamma up while the game is playing, and it looks awful. But oh well if I only have an hour I play with washed out color.
I don't think that's a great solution. I would have it dark, but not as dark as lotro. I've only played WoW and Lotro and there are good and bad points to both ways of doing it. But at least with the fast day/night cycle players can see both. My friend told me once when I played WoW at his house "this looks so different during the day, I always play at night" since he doesn't log on till after his kids go to bed.
I don't think that's a great solution. I would have it dark, but not as dark as lotro. I've only played WoW and Lotro and there are good and bad points to both ways of doing it. But at least with the fast day/night cycle players can see both. My friend told me once when I played WoW at his house "this looks so different during the day, I always play at night" since he doesn't log on till after his kids go to bed.
# posted by : 21/5/07 16:22
: 21/5/07 16:22
I enjoy the current cycle well enough. I don't have much of a problem seeing at night, however. I tend to do quests during the day and I use the nighttime as an in-game break time. I will craft, role play or do other stuff. The other day I was questing in the North Downs a bit and it was neat to try to get to the dwarven village in the North before sunset. Then I got to watch the sun set over the farmlands and enjoy a smoke in the safety of the fort.
# posted by : 21/5/07 18:16
: 21/5/07 18:16
I have to agree with others that i've never had trouble with seeing at night. I didn't even know about Alt+F10 and can see at night fine. I love LOTRO night actually. The cozy glow of building windows, the spectacular night sky, its great. My best memory of LOTRO so far is crossing the Shire on my way to Bree with my elf during the night - wonderful visuals.
# posted by : 22/5/07 00:50
: 22/5/07 00:50
I prefer the nighttime in LotRO. And I've never had any trouble seeing just fine...didn't even know there was a torch(?).
Frankly, I enjoy the game, but am less than pleased I have to play "alliance". That includes the environment and the characters. But them's the breaks.
Frankly, I enjoy the game, but am less than pleased I have to play "alliance". That includes the environment and the characters. But them's the breaks.
# posted by : 22/5/07 17:13
: 22/5/07 17:13
Either a 2 or 3 hour cycle, with night taking up 1/4 to 1/3 of the cycle time. I'd also have night time mean something different other than just be darker. The N64's Zelda was like that with Hyrule closing its drawbridge at Dusk and not lowering it until Dawn. Imagine rocking up to Stormwind or Ironforge after Dusk only to be refused entry if you aren't at least Honored with them, or trying to get into Darnassus, Orgimmar or The Undercity during the day and facing the same restrictions.
Imagine the Blacksmith at Goldshire closing its doors at night so you can't repair your equipment, or a Soldier on guard at the Inn because the Mobs that inhabit the forest get braver at night, and under the cover of darkness tend to venture a little closer to town.
If programmers are going to include nighttime in their games it should mean something and should actually affect gameplay, rather than just be an absence of light.
Imagine the Blacksmith at Goldshire closing its doors at night so you can't repair your equipment, or a Soldier on guard at the Inn because the Mobs that inhabit the forest get braver at night, and under the cover of darkness tend to venture a little closer to town.
If programmers are going to include nighttime in their games it should mean something and should actually affect gameplay, rather than just be an absence of light.
Wouldn't it be cool if you could see other people moving in the dark by the lights of their torches?
Yes, it would. I'd love to see that.
Yes, it would. I'd love to see that.
Do the mobs aggro radii change when it is dark ? Sneaking about in the dark sounds very cool !
# posted by : 23/5/07 14:28
: 23/5/07 14:28
An excellent example of this is that when you are playing LOTRO and are in Goblin Town way in the Misty Mountains, the goblins are out in full force. In the day when you enter the goblin city, there is very light duty and the place is virtually empty with most of the guards sleeping. You evidentally need a bigger group when you charge in their at night, one of the better things about nighttime in Lotro.
# posted by : 14/5/09 00:46
: 14/5/09 00:46
I also find LOTRO nights way too dark and as a result annoyingly long. Plud my main avatar is an elf, and elves aren't supposed to be nightblind. I would recommend the nocturnal darkness of SWG and urge the devs to give elves (and dwarves) alternative settings.
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# posted by : 25/5/09 07:13
: 25/5/09 07:13<< Home
